BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
When a lot is sold either buyer or seller payed the fee.I was told that in 2011 the laws changed in TN and they can no longer charge a transfer fee.Does anyone know
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DeanJ (Ohio)
Posts: 1,789
Posts: 1,789
Posted:
According to online sources, the Tennessee State Department of Revenue controls the Tennessee real estate transfer tax rate, which shall be $0.37 per every $100 indebtedness of property value. It does not appear to be a one time fee and it collected each time a lot transfers.
TimB4 (Virginia)
Posts: 21,004
Posts: 21,004
Posted:
Brenda,
Laws did change, in 2011.
1) Covenant transfer fees recorded after June 10, 2011 is not binding (can not be enforced).
2) The statute does not imply that transfer fees in covenants recorded prior to June 10, 2011 are valid.
See: § 66-37-104 (Title 66, Chapter 37, section 100-104 for the entire statute)
Available Tennessee Code - Lexis Law Link
As I'm reading it, the legislature wanted to ban transfer fees completely.
However, the law only bans those recorded after June 10, 2011.
One could argue it bans any transfer fee, but that would require legal action and a court ruling.
I do not know if such a case has been tried.
Laws did change, in 2011.
1) Covenant transfer fees recorded after June 10, 2011 is not binding (can not be enforced).
2) The statute does not imply that transfer fees in covenants recorded prior to June 10, 2011 are valid.
See: § 66-37-104 (Title 66, Chapter 37, section 100-104 for the entire statute)
Available Tennessee Code - Lexis Law Link
As I'm reading it, the legislature wanted to ban transfer fees completely.
However, the law only bans those recorded after June 10, 2011.
One could argue it bans any transfer fee, but that would require legal action and a court ruling.
I do not know if such a case has been tried.
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,405
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/15/2024 5:51 PM
When a lot is sold either buyer or seller payed the fee. I was told that in 2011 the laws changed in TN and they can no longer charge a transfer fee. Does anyone know
When a lot is sold either buyer or seller payed the fee. I was told that in 2011 the laws changed in TN and they can no longer charge a transfer fee. Does anyone know
Yes, in Tennessee there was a change in 2011. But if you want more help, I think you are going to have to define exactly what you mean by "transfer fee."
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,270
Posts: 3,270
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/16/2024 7:32 AM
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
What’s your thoughts on asking for a refund on the already paid transfer fees?
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/16/2024 7:22 AM
In the last dozen years or so, legislatures have taken actions to limit (and sometimes prohibit) "transfer fees." However, the (relatively new) statute sections that do this strictly define what is meant by "transfer fees." The statute definition is often not what a layperson expected. See the definitions at https://casetext.com/statute/tennessee-code/title-66-property/chapter-37-prohibition-of-covenants-providing-for-transfer-fees-act-of-2011/section-66-37-102-chapter-definitions. Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/15/2024 5:51 PM
When a lot is sold either buyer or seller payed the fee. I was told that in 2011 the laws changed in TN and they can no longer charge a transfer fee. Does anyone know
When a lot is sold either buyer or seller payed the fee. I was told that in 2011 the laws changed in TN and they can no longer charge a transfer fee. Does anyone know
Yes, in Tennessee there was a change in 2011. But if you want more help, I think you are going to have to define exactly what you mean by "transfer fee."
The only thing I know is if a lot is sold either buyer or seller has to pay a 200 transfer fee.I questioned it and they wasn’t going to let be vote in the POA election until I paid them.I paid them and since been made aware that the fee might not be legal.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,405
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 8:10 AM
The only thing I know is if a lot is sold either buyer or seller has to pay a 200 transfer fee.I questioned it and they wasn’t going to let be vote in the POA election until I paid them.I paid them and since been made aware that the fee might not be legal.
The only thing I know is if a lot is sold either buyer or seller has to pay a 200 transfer fee.I questioned it and they wasn’t going to let be vote in the POA election until I paid them.I paid them and since been made aware that the fee might not be legal.
This topic comes up a lot here.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,270
Posts: 3,270
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 8:06 AM
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/16/2024 7:32 AM
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
What’s your thoughts on asking for a refund on the already paid transfer fees?
If you can prove for a certainty that there was no legal basis to impose the fee, you could file a claim for a refund in small claims court. You could use the attorney's statement to demonstrate that the board knew the fees could not be charged but they did it anyway.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,270
Posts: 3,270
Posted:
Transfer fee defined and legislative intent.
https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/Priorities/TransferFeeBans/Pages/TN.aspx
https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/Priorities/TransferFeeBans/Pages/TN.aspx
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/16/2024 8:25 AM
What’s your thoughts on asking for a refund on the already paid transfer fees?
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 8:06 AM
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/16/2024 7:32 AM
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Seems that evidence would be fraud on the membership if they actually changed the name and continued charging the fee. And maybe a Bar complaint against the lawyer telling a client how to defraud the homeowners.
What’s your thoughts on asking for a refund on the already paid transfer fees?
If you can prove for a certainty that there was no legal basis to impose the fee, you could file a claim for a refund in small claims court. You could use the attorney's statement to demonstrate that the board knew the fees could not be charged but they did it anyway.
I think it’s at least worth asking the board for it back and see what happens.I think they are a little scared or they wouldn’t have ask there attorney and be wanting to change the name.Thanks
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,270
Posts: 3,270
Posted:
Definitely, ask for it. The small claims court always asks if you have asked the defendant for the money.
TimB4 (Virginia)
Posts: 21,004
Posts: 21,004
Posted:
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,230
Posts: 14,230
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/16/2024 12:25 PM
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
Good advice.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,270
Posts: 3,270
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/16/2024 12:25 PM
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
This is a small claims case. Small claims is cheap and fast.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 107
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Who is charging a transfer fee, the association or a management company?
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/16/2024 1:34 PM
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Who is charging a transfer fee, the association or a management company?
Association we have no management company and that’s the problem
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/16/2024 1:34 PM
Posted By BrendaP5 on 02/16/2024 7:18 AM
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Thanks Tim They are charging a transfer fee in our association and I questioned it and they assured me it was legal.After my others problems with them I was told they ask there lawyer and that he told them it couldn’t be called a transfer fee but they could change the name to something other than transfer fee.Im just wondering if a person wouldn’t be due a refund on the transfer fees we paid.Whats your thought on it?
Who is charging a transfer fee, the association or a management company?
Association we have no management company and that’s the problem
BrendaP5
Posts: 44
Posts: 44
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/16/2024 1:32 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 02/16/2024 12:25 PM
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
Brenda,
This is where you may need legal advice.
You can request anything. However, it's likely that the Board will simply say no.
At that point you need to decide if the issue is worth the time, energy and expense of a legal battle.
Personally, I think you should decide if you are willing to go through the battle prior to asking the question.
If you are not, then don't bother asking (as you indicated the Board checked and the attorney said to simply call it something else).
I suspect that the legal fight would be on principal, as I suspect the transfer fee would be less then the expense of a legal case.
This is a small claims case. Small claims is cheap and fast.
This involves several lots but yes legal fees would still outweigh but it’s the principle
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,405
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
The most likely reason the board wants to change the name of this fee is because it is not a "transfer fee" as the Tennessee statute defines "transfer fee."
I would not proceed to any court until I at least identified whether the covenants say I have to pay the HOA's attorney fees if I lose.
It is possible the better argument here is that this fee does not reflect the actual expenses of the HOA.
Or if per chance this is a capital contribution fee, then this is a whole other ball game, and it is likely in favor of the HOA.
I would not proceed to any court until I at least identified whether the covenants say I have to pay the HOA's attorney fees if I lose.
It is possible the better argument here is that this fee does not reflect the actual expenses of the HOA.
Or if per chance this is a capital contribution fee, then this is a whole other ball game, and it is likely in favor of the HOA.
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