Opinions wanted

Started by RobertR1 • 13 replies • 1340 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

For all,

I advise in some instanes if the Board is conducting their business in such a way that their fiduciary responsibilities are in question or there is some other conduct by the board that could be illegal, or suspecious, etc; that the individual owner is obligated to go to a Board meeting and call a "Point of order." Also if the Board is ignoring any of the requirements as provided by the documents.

I contend that a power and responsibility rest with individual members to do this. It forces the Board to justify their actions if there is any question of how specific issues are being handled. It also establishes a record in the minutes. This also can be benifical for the board to quelch rumors and false assumptionss. It also could be a pain and disrupt the Board meeting if the procedure is observed. It matters not if your motion is voted down, but if you get a second it has to go to discussion and a decision made about the specific motion.

What do you all think? Good or bad?

AdrianC (California)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Robert,

I agree with you most strongly.

Just as the board has responsibilities to the members,
the members have responsibilities to protect their own
interests.

However the first requirement is "to be seen to be reasonable"

In order to do this the formal questions and answers process
has to be followed and documented. Thus, in terms of the new
California laws you must make written application to have your
question placed on the agenda, so that it can be posted 4 days
before the meeting. Only in an emergency can the board discuss
an item that has not been placed on the agenda and posted.

Once your point has been discussed, request that your question
and the reply be noted in the minutes, together with a time line
for investigation, and resolution. KEEP GOOD NOTES FOR YOURSELF.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Your idea is good. Arizona statutes allows members to speak before a motion is voted on by the board, in addition to any scheduled time allotted for members to speak. But from reading here I don't think many other states allow this, so a member even calling for a point of order would be ignored or silenced. If members are allowed to speak, it is usually a brief allotted time before or after the meeting and never during the meeting. So either board policy and/or state law would have to be implemented to allow what you propose. Harold

ShawnaF (Colorado)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Actually I STRONGLY agree with you and think that's a fantastic way to handle things. Now I have a question for YOU, since we both believe this is an obligation and responsibility - would you wait and go to the meeting and call a Point of Order? Or would you notify the Board in writing of these items prior to the meeting? This is where I'm stuck!

I know as a Board Member, I loved getting correspondence from neighbors and having conversations to hear their thoughts and opinions (and to help ME learn what issues they saw.) I loved getting info in advance so I could do the work and research things. However, some individuals use it in order to sway the rest of the Board Members to vote toward their agenda and gather evidence to the contrary for presentation (whether it fits or not.)

I'm stuck on that situation.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Shawna,
This is the definition of POINT OF ORDER so it would be up to the motioner to call if the chair is not following the rules.

Roberts Rules;
Point of Order: Infraction of the rules, or improper decorum in speaking. Must be raised immediately after the error is made

C-SPAN Congressional Glossary
Term Definition Used In
POINT OF ORDER A POINT OF ORDER is made during floor proceedings to assert that the rules of procedure are being violated.

A point of order halts proceedings while the presiding officer rules on whether or not it is valid.

I agree with you that I like to get any information ahead of time so that I can research and have good answers. There are many members who are savy on rules and laws so it is best to be prepaired

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Shawna and Donna,
Wasn't there a movie with that title and they ddrove the car off the Grand Canyon rim?

As to Point of Order.
If the Board is the one not abiding by the documents or acting inproper, I believe they can be questioned at the begining of a meeting before any Business is done. Of course the reason being; if they are acting improper any business they conduct is suspect. Make the Point of oprder in writing, get up and read the objection and make a motion it be discussed. Have someone quickly stand and second your motion. What you did was proper and you can't control the Boards action. Even if they shush you, make your point and make sure the motion is read into the minutes. If they refuse to do it, you can raise objection. If they still refuse, by then you have made your point, and it would not hurt to have it recorded, if not, write out what happened and have the owner that seconded write out what happened. This is not for the timid, but you can bet whatever you say or do, your isssue will receive consideration by the Board. The Pres might call you out of order but that has to go into the minutes also, and why.

I have only seen this done once in an HOA meeting , but in the end it was very effective and concessions were made and no feelings hurt.

Still asking for opinions.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Robert,

My Opinion!!!! Good point that you brought up. I have seen it used only once and that was when a President did not like a discussion during a motion. He tried to move to another subject when we were waiting for a discussion to end concerning a motion. The President should not allow a discussion during a motion. Gets pretty complicated for me to digest but the guy was correct in calling it.
There, you asked for my 2 cents worth and you got it. HA!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
I thought you were busy circling the wagons from the attack on your left flank "not being fresh", from the new desperado that just rode into town. I will give him two weeks and you will have him trained like a show horse.

I am confused about what you wrote. You make a motion to have a discussion about (the Treasuer ran away with all the money and the Board is trying to handle it without telling owners, let's say). So the motion is made, then seconded and the Presiding has to call for discussion. I expect if the President is so motivated he will stop or try to stop the proceeding. You should have enough support at the meeting to force him to follow protocol. If he don't, the members can recall him on this alone. What you hope happens is the Board can see the dangers of fighting this and will offer to table the motion with an understanding that an explanation will be sent out to all owners. Then, if they are doing harm they have to admit it and change.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Shawana,
Nothing in all this should be made to cause trouble, it should be done as a means for an owner to fullfil his responsibility to the association that he assumed where he signed on. Chances are an owner is not going to gain much telling the Board they are operating outside their mandate. But done this way the issue of who is a troublemaker gets full exposure. Owners do have legal resposibilities just like the Board does and the master in both cases is the same. The Association. If the Board wants to stand up and defend themselve against, say, following the by-laws, they do so at their own peril.

Certainly if your association with a member is close enough he can write you or talk to you about wrongdoings and you say, give me a week and let me get back to you, that is the road of choice and much desired, but the action should stop.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

RobertR1 - Point of order to me is used as a method to correct a misstatement so that discussion can be directed upon facts rather than fiction. I do believe it is the obligation of owners to speak up in a respectful way. However, capturing the point of order and opinion of an owner may or may not make it into the minutes. A Board that has something to hide will usually edit the point of order or statement out, plus minutes don't always have to be word for word of what took place.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Robert,
Yes, It was an error on the Presidents part and he tried to move on but was called on it by another member. Like I said, this is not my area of expertise and it was the first time that I saw it used. It was something that the President did not want to deal with. Well, she is no longer the President either.

As for my wagons, we are circled and ready for the show down on Tuesday. I spent the day sorting out what the rumor was and how this rogue President was going to play her cards. As always, do the research and know your documents, State and Association and as we say in Florida---HUNKER DOWN FOR THE STORM. tHE STORY IS ON MY "BINDING VOTE pOST"

ShawnaF (Colorado)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Fantastic info folks and thank you once again for so much education!

Shawna & D Thelma and Louise - but hey, I'm up either role albeit with a slightly different ending!!! Especially with Donna at my side, that lady is top notch!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Shawna,= Thelma,

Thanks for the cudos. You awtta see me when I'm mad. Mostly when we get a disgruntled home owner on here who is bashing their Board and has not any idea that they are way off base and don't have a clue how to follow the rules and docs of their own association. Grrrr!

ShawnaF (Colorado)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Lol Louise/Donna - good thing I didn't post the night before OUR elections when I was good and ticked and not thinking clearly! lol...

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here