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Confused about Balcony inspections Stirling Davis 4775 Maintenance & Repair Responsiblility

Started by MaryL20 • 15 replies • 328 views

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MaryL20 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our CC&R’s clearly state the Association shall paint, maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to the Common Areas. The Association shall not be responsible for or obligated to perform those items of maintenance, repair or improvement of those units Restricted Common Area, the maintenance of which is the responsiblity of the Unit Owners. Ten of our forty units have decks. With balcony inspection in our future my guess that all decks will need repair and waterproofing. Should the assessment go to the entire community or just the ten deck owners needing repairs and waterproofing?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The HOA is only funded by it's members for it's members. Every member will be paying once it is decided it is a HOA cost and not individual. Plus it will be less money to cough up spread across 20 than say 10.
Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024 9:51 AM
Our CC&R’s clearly state the Association shall paint, maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to the Common Areas. The Association shall not be responsible for or obligated to perform those items of maintenance, repair or improvement of those units Restricted Common Area, the maintenance of which is the responsiblity of the Unit Owners. Ten of our forty units have decks. With balcony inspection in our future my guess that all decks will need repair and waterproofing. Should the assessment go to the entire community or just the ten deck owners needing repairs and waterproofing?
-- From my reading of Civ Code 4775 and the declaration section above, it seems clear that the ten owners are responsible for the maintenance and repairs of the decks.

-- The HOA should not be assessing the owners for this maintenance and repair. Instead, the HOA should be enforcing the covenant and so requiring these ten owners to maintain and repair the decks, imposing fines as appropriate.

-- If you are saying something else (like repair of the balconies is going to require using the decks underneath the balconies?), then please elaborate.

References:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4775

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Exclusive-Use-Area
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024 9:51 AM
Our CC&R’s clearly state the Association shall paint, maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to the Common Areas. The Association shall not be responsible for or obligated to perform those items of maintenance, repair or improvement of those units Restricted Common Area, the maintenance of which is the responsiblity of the Unit Owners. Ten of our forty units have decks. With balcony inspection in our future my guess that all decks will need repair and waterproofing. Should the assessment go to the entire community or just the ten deck owners needing repairs and waterproofing?

Limited common are means that portion of the common area reserved for the homeowners exclusive use. Your balcony is clearly limited common area and your responsibility.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 108
Posted:
In regards to Balcony inspections and repairs that fall under Civil Code 5551 which states the Association is responsible.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Mary, please note Aidyl's response. What needs to concern your HOA is Civil Code 5551. First, help me out:

Are there only 10 balconies in your entire HOA?

You use the words balconies & decks interchangeably. Civ. 5551, however, is solely about balconies, which are "elevated" or cantilevered structures that extend out over air. Worst case is that they are basically unsupported and could fall off the building with terrible results. The other important part of 5551 is that to be required for a certain kind inspection by 1/1/25, they must have some sort of wood components to them.

Decks are a true integrated part of the building with actual building structure supporting them. (My HOA has both balconies and decks, but they're concrete & steel so aren't affected by 5551.)

Are the 10 balconies or decks ?? IF the balconies are so weakened that structural elements of them must be REPLACED, imo, it's the HOA's obligation to replace the supporting structure, which IS common area.

I only did a quick review of Civ. 5551 and see that the HOA only is responsible for the the common areas, i.e., the support of the balconies. Did I miss something, Aidyl?

(My multi-story HOA has both balconies and decks, but they're concrete & steel so aren't affected by 5551.)

MaryL20 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you for your reply. We have 40 total units and only 10 of the units have wood balconies with wood decks. The wood decks on the balconies require waterproofing so the wood deck does not rot. We will be doing the 5551 required inspections. Our CC&R’s state that the HOA shall not be responsible for or obligated to perform these items of maintenance, repair or improvement of the units or restricted common areas, the maintenance of which is the responsibility of the Unit Owners. The wood balcony with the wood decks I believe are considered Restricted Common area. I need some clarity. I should probably consult with an HOA attorney. The 40 units will each be getting a large special assessment to pay for the ten decks unless this is clarified. Three of our four board members have decks in question and they want all the home owners to pay for their Restricted Common area balcony/decks.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Mary, please clarify! Are they balconies as described above? OR are they decks. They cannot be both. By "balconies," do you by chance mean balcony railings?? I don't know what " wood decks on the balconies"means. Please describe.

Your CC&Rs will tell you if whatever-they-are -- are common area or restricted or limited use common area. Probably the latter. If so, and from what I'm able to understand from you posts, each ownrs is resosbile for their whatever-itiis.

In addition, with only 10 of them and with about 1/3 of them owned by directors, yes, I urge you to get a legal opinion from your HOA attorney. These 3 have a "conflict of interest" because they would personally derive benefit from a vote that says all owners must chip in. By rights, they should recuse themselves from a vote about "who pays?"

I take it you're the Board.,Mary? Do you have access to the HOA attorney?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024 3:24 PM
Thank you for your reply. We have 40 total units and only 10 of the units have wood balconies with wood decks. The wood decks on the balconies require waterproofing so the wood deck does not rot. We will be doing the 5551 required inspections. Our CC&R’s state that the HOA shall not be responsible for or obligated to perform these items of maintenance, repair or improvement of the units or restricted common areas, the maintenance of which is the responsibility of the Unit Owners. The wood balcony with the wood decks I believe are considered Restricted Common area.
Correct; they are restricted common area, a.k.a. "exclusive use common area." What wording in the declaration or 4775 makes you think the entire HOA has to pay for the waterproofing of these decks?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/12/2024 11:50 AM
In regards to Balcony inspections and repairs that fall under Civil Code 5551 which states the Association is responsible.
This is a mis-reading of 5551. Civ Code 5551 uses the phrase, "for which the association has maintenance or repair responsibility" in two places. In context, Civ Code 5551 is not assigning responsibility of every HOA balcony in California to the HOA. Civ Code 5551 is saying that, where the CC&RS say a HOA has the maintenance or repair responsibility for "exterior elevated elements" (as defined in 5551), certain inspections must take place.

AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 108
Posted:
Mary,

You're going to need to get someone to read your CCRs thoroughly to see what the HOA is responsible for and what the homeowner is responsible for. I have seen a number of these balcony inspections find termite and wood rot in the structure of the balcony which has been in the common area and the support structure of the balcony. In all fairness, if you are one of the thirty that doesn't have a balcony, you shouldn't be required to pay for the ten would do. Unfortunately, this is going to cause a shit storm to HOAs with less than adequate reserves and homeowners not able to pay a hefty price for repairs.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/12/2024 11:50 AM
In regards to Balcony inspections and repairs that fall under Civil Code 5551 which states the Association is responsible.

Does it?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
As, I think a CA community manager or mgmt. form owner, I thing Aidyl is correct and knows for experience that the STRUCTURE supporting the elevator balcony IS the obligation of the HOA to repair.

But, for me, until I understand what exactly Mary is talking about--balcony that extends from the building over air, OR deck--completely part of the building with solid structure under it, I can t comment further.

So far, I stick with my thinking that her Board needs to consult with their HOA counsel.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/12/2024 7:40 PM
I thing Aidyl is correct and knows for experience that the STRUCTURE supporting the elevator balcony IS the obligation of the HOA to repair.
AidylP1 subsequently corrected herself, stating:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/12/2024
You're going to need to get someone to read your CCRs thoroughly to see what the HOA is responsible for and what the homeowner is responsible for.
As for the decks vs. balconies confusion you are having, re-read this:
Quote:
Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024
We have 40 total units and only 10 of the units have wood balconies with wood decks. The wood decks on the balconies
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 108
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/12/2024 7:50 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/12/2024 7:40 PM
I thing Aidyl is correct and knows for experience that the STRUCTURE supporting the elevator balcony IS the obligation of the HOA to repair.
AidylP1 subsequently corrected herself, stating:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 02/12/2024
You're going to need to get someone to read your CCRs thoroughly to see what the HOA is responsible for and what the homeowner is responsible for.
As for the decks vs. balconies confusion you are having, re-read this:
Quote:
Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024
We have 40 total units and only 10 of the units have wood balconies with wood decks. The wood decks on the balconies

You don't shit about this issue.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
However, crude & unclear, I must agree completely with Aidyl's last post.

Now...Elle writes: "As for the decks vs. balconies confusion you are having, re-read this: Posted By MaryL20 on 02/12/2024. 'We have 40 total units and only 10 of the units have wood balconies with wood decks. The wood decks on the balconies..'"

The confusion is not mine. Balconies and decks are two entirely different structures as I tired to define way above. To check further, Mary, is it possible the decks are in your reserve study?? Another place to look is your Condominium Plan, which I hope you HOA has. It will have on the pictures of the Units whether the structures are balconies or decks.

BUT, I do modify my way above. Decks that are raised off the ground and are supported by pillars or columns or whatever, DO need to be inspected if any part of them is wood.

So whether Mary has balconies or raised decks all need to be inspected because they contain wooden elements.

Base on her CC&Rs, if cited correctly, owners are responsible to maintain & repair. What I do not see is who is obligated if a certain element, say columns supporting decks need to be replaced. So again, get your HOA attorney's advice.

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