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RichardM19 (Illinois)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Illinois has passed laws stemming from two court cases: Palm I and Palm II. This ruling pertained to HOA Directors' meetings without providing Owners with notice or ability to observe or make a public comment and has been made permanent under Section 18(a)(9)(A) of the Condominium Property Act and Section 1-40(b)(5) of the Common Interest Community Association Act. The notice must be provided to all the unit owners at least 48 hours before the meeting by posting notices in conspicuous places throughout the association as well as by personal delivery or mail (unless the unit owner has agreed to accept notices by electronic means).it also provides that owners within common interest communities do have the right to make public comments.

However, there are exceptions to the rule that every board meeting must be open to the public. Under Section 18(a)(9)(A) of the Condominium Property Act, condominium board meetings (or portions of those meetings) where certain items are discussed can be done in a closed session. More specifically, under that section, a condominium board can meet and discuss items outside the presence of non-board members to:

1. discuss litigation when an action against or on behalf of the particular association has been filed and is pending in a court or administrative tribunal or when the board of managers finds that such an action is probable or imminent;
2. discuss the appointment, employment, engagement, or dismissal of an employee, independent contractor, agent, or other provider of goods and services;
3. interview a potential employee, independent contractor, agent, or other provider of goods and services;
4. discuss violations of rules and regulations of the association;
5. discuss a unit owner's unpaid share of common expenses or
6. consult with the association's legal counsel.

Recently, all of the Directors of our HOA for a Burr Ridge Community met at the President's house and discussed HOA actions. No notice of this meeting was provided! I am told that many topics and HOA issues were discussed, including one that will affect the appearance of every home in the community and cost Owners upwards of $1,000 or more. I understand that the Directors agreed to move forward with the project, and they will all act on this topic later to approve it. This culminates a many months-long process in which the President appointed ad hoc committees without the benefit of Board action, no public notice this is even occurring, and now a secret meeting. Several other topics, discussions, and consensus were reached that will also affect the community moving forward. The meetings are billed as informal meetings...

I FIND NO EXCEPTION for this meeting, informal or not, and that this meeting violates Illinois law. I wonder if any HOATalk member has information on whether this meeting was a violation of Illinois law and/or what cures might be available if it was violative.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
How did you find out about this meeting? Have you asked the board about this, and if so, what was the response? What do your documents say - I'd remind them of those requirements (quote the exact verbiage) and state law (quote specific statutes). Better yet, give everyone copies of this stuff so they can read it themselves. Bring other homeowners with you so they can hear the response - it's one thing to try and blow off one homeowner, but when there are several waiting to hear what you have to say, it becomes more dicey.

Their response, or lack thereof, will give you an indication of what you need to do next - that may or may not justify a recall. If you and your neighbors think this may be necessary, read your documents to see what they say regarding special meetings and petitions for the same, and start making a plan for how to approach this. That may also require passing the hat for an attorney who can guide you in the process - if a recall is to succeed, you have to do it correctly. You will also need to have people ready to step up and replace them - and one of them may have to be YOU.

There's another new conversation about board recalls in a mobile home community in California. I've already made suggestions on what to do if the recall suceeds, and I'm sure others will chime in. You may want to take a look at that conversation so you can think about what can happen and what to do if it does.

Back to this meeting - if this was an executive session (aka closed session), those still have to be announced in advance. For example, the board can announce it will go in executive session after a regular board meeting - when the time comes, everyone else goes home. They should also explain why they're going into executive session, such as discussing delinquent accounts.

Minutes for the next board meeting should summarize the outcome of the executive session, as in "the board went into executive session following the regular board meeting of 2/3/24 to discuss legal action against three delinquent accounts. During the meeting, the board voted to accept a payment plan negotiated by the association attorney for account A, and to refer accounts B and C to the attorney for further legal action." You don't have to say who voted for what or discuss what was said - minutes of any sort should only reflect the action taken because the other stuff can get you into more legal trouble if it's inaccurate or the comments consitute libel, defamation or slander.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardM19 (Illinois)
Posts: 21
Posted:
I am aware of it because a Director told me about it. Our Declaration is pretty standard regarding notice to owners and requires notice at least 48 hours before a meeting, but I understand that the Illinois Common Interest Community Act takes precedence. The purpose of the meeting did not meet any of the identified reasons for having an executive or closed session. Mostly, I am looking for opinions that I'm not wrong about this meeting being a violation of the Illinois statute, if not the spirit of the law. I'm pretty sure that is, and my 15 years (I voluntarily decided not to run for another 3 years) serving as a director and president gives me that background.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
From what I've occasionally read on this forum about IL and the Acts, I'd say that your Board violated statues and was completely wrong to hold such a meeting, and worse, to make decisions.

The IL requirements are quite clear. (Not that it matters, but they're very similar to CA statutes about HOAs)

The question is what can/will you do about it?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don't know why you don't trust your instincts, given what you know about the law and what your documents say. Yes, they might get annoyed and/or mad, but so what? If they have nothing to hide, they should have followed the documents and state law - grown people admit when they're wrong, fix the problem and try not to do it again. If you're wrong or misheard something, I'm sure you're adult enough to thank them for the clarification. Are you afraid the director who told you about this meeting will stand up and scream at you?

If you're right about this (the board's stammering and refusing to respond at all might be a clue), we're back to Kerry's question - what will YOU do about it? If you need opinions, why not talk to a few neighbors and see if they're aware of the meeting and if they're as concerned as you are - then all of you show up and ask your questions again. After that, you can all decide if you want to pursue this further.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardM19 on 02/09/2024 3:49 AM
Illinois has passed laws stemming from two court cases: Palm I and Palm II. This ruling pertained to HOA Directors' meetings without providing Owners with notice or ability to observe or make a public comment and has been made permanent under Section 18(a)(9)(A) of the Condominium Property Act and Section 1-40(b)(5) of the Common Interest Community Association Act. The notice must be provided to all the unit owners at least 48 hours before the meeting by posting notices in conspicuous places throughout the association as well as by personal delivery or mail (unless the unit owner has agreed to accept notices by electronic means).it also provides that owners within common interest communities do have the right to make public comments.

However, there are exceptions to the rule that every board meeting must be open to the public. Under Section 18(a)(9)(A) of the Condominium Property Act, condominium board meetings (or portions of those meetings) where certain items are discussed can be done in a closed session. More specifically, under that section, a condominium board can meet and discuss items outside the presence of non-board members to:

1. discuss litigation when an action against or on behalf of the particular association has been filed and is pending in a court or administrative tribunal or when the board of managers finds that such an action is probable or imminent;
2. discuss the appointment, employment, engagement, or dismissal of an employee, independent contractor, agent, or other provider of goods and services;
3. interview a potential employee, independent contractor, agent, or other provider of goods and services;
4. discuss violations of rules and regulations of the association;
5. discuss a unit owner's unpaid share of common expenses or
6. consult with the association's legal counsel.

Recently, all of the Directors of our HOA for a Burr Ridge Community met at the President's house and discussed HOA actions. No notice of this meeting was provided! I am told that many topics and HOA issues were discussed, including one that will affect the appearance of every home in the community and cost Owners upwards of $1,000 or more. I understand that the Directors agreed to move forward with the project, and they will all act on this topic later to approve it. This culminates a many months-long process in which the President appointed ad hoc committees without the benefit of Board action, no public notice this is even occurring, and now a secret meeting. Several other topics, discussions, and consensus were reached that will also affect the community moving forward. The meetings are billed as informal meetings...

I FIND NO EXCEPTION for this meeting, informal or not, and that this meeting violates Illinois law. I wonder if any HOATalk member has information on whether this meeting was a violation of Illinois law and/or what cures might be available if it was violative.

The picnic committee met last night with the board to plan the annual picnic. We didn’t put out a notice, we didn’t take a single vote. We did discuss the budget, the supplies needed, and assignments. It was an informal meeting.

While I agree you get to taste the cake and give comments, I don’t think you get to specify the ingredients or the baking process.

While

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Richard,

Let's say it is a violation (failure to notice).

When challenged, the correction would be:
1) notice all meetings.
2) Notate (as discussion would have already occurred and likely would not be repeated) said actions, or simply add the specific items, to the next scheduled meeting.

Other then placing the board on notice that the membership is watching, it likely won't change the outcome of that improperly noticed meeting.

If there are available candidates, it may change the makeup of the next board when elections are held at the annual meeting.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
For those who may desire, here are links to the cases:

Palm v. 2800 Lake Shore Drive Condo. Ass'n 2014 (upholding a provision in the bylaws requiring notices be mailed as opposed to mailed or delivered as allowed by the Act)

The Palm II Court Decision Cracks Down On Condominium Boards 2014

The Aftermath of Palm v. 2800 Lake Shore Drive: The Sky is Not Falling (Illinois) 2015

Illinois Appellate Court Clarifies Palm Decision Regarding Association Collections (Illinois) 2017
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What are you talking about, Dean? IL is an open meeting state. Ohio, which I think is your state, is not. Right?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I like Tim's idea about "placing the Board on notice that the mama bets are watching," and his steps to get their attention.

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