BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
The lots are listed in the CCRs. The list seems to be arbitrary. Is that enforable?
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HOA only allows fences on specific lots
Started by BradS10 • 17 replies • 323 views
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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Need more details but I suspect those lots may be on corners? Are they near intersections? The reason they may not be able to have fences without additional permission is that a fence will block the view of an intersection or traffic control.
We have a rule no fences in the front yard. The way the houses are set up they do not have a front door in the front. The front door is on the side of the home. Fences are to start just before or after the front door for back yard. However, a house on a corner this installation tends to block view of the stop signs or yield to drivers. What we did is ask the owner to install a fence that was 4 feet on the side that gradually went up to 6 feet in the back yard. That way could still see the sign and they had a fence. It was big enough for their pugs.
If it's in the CCR's it is enforceable if you have enforcement abilities. It can be changed with enough membership votes.
We have a rule no fences in the front yard. The way the houses are set up they do not have a front door in the front. The front door is on the side of the home. Fences are to start just before or after the front door for back yard. However, a house on a corner this installation tends to block view of the stop signs or yield to drivers. What we did is ask the owner to install a fence that was 4 feet on the side that gradually went up to 6 feet in the back yard. That way could still see the sign and they had a fence. It was big enough for their pugs.
If it's in the CCR's it is enforceable if you have enforcement abilities. It can be changed with enough membership votes.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Brad,
I would expect that the covenants are enforceable.
To test it, you should seek a legal opinion asking: If I challenge this covenant, what are my chances of winning?
I would expect that the covenants are enforceable.
To test it, you should seek a legal opinion asking: If I challenge this covenant, what are my chances of winning?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're saying the lots that are allowed to have fences are listed in the CC&Rs? I'd say the HOA has to abide by the covenants and not allow fences on the lots not listed.
Prospective buyers can see if the lot they want permits fences before they sign off on the transaction.
Perhaps you'll provide the exact wording ?
Prospective buyers can see if the lot they want permits fences before they sign off on the transaction.
Perhaps you'll provide the exact wording ?
BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
The lots are a variety of lots in the neighborhood with no real commonality. Some are on the golf course , some face a non neighborhood street, others face trees. I think it was specifically implemented to discourage families in a number of the lots. They also specifically ban childs play sets and sport courts in the lots that are not permitted to have a fence.
BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
The lots are a variety of lots in the neighborhood with no real commonality. Some are on the golf course , some face a non neighborhood street, others face trees. I think it was specifically implemented to discourage families in a number of the lots. They also specifically ban childs play sets and sport courts in the lots that are not permitted to have a fence.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Could be noise levels. No one wants a playground or something that gathera a loud crowd near their homes. Factor in safety.
We had someone who wanted a basketball goal installed at their house on the road. It was a a blind corner and their house windows could been hit with the ball. Sometimes common sense has to play.
We had someone who wanted a basketball goal installed at their house on the road. It was a a blind corner and their house windows could been hit with the ball. Sometimes common sense has to play.
Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please cite the actual wording in your CC&Rs. Is this section original or was it an amendment that owners added later? Do you know? If original, why the heck would the developer want to discourage families with kids, I.e.,limit the # of prospective buyers?
BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
No fences or walls shall be permitted on any lots except as follows:
It then lists 20 lots (25% of the community) and describes what the fence can look like. These are the original CCRs. There have been no amendments.
It then lists 20 lots (25% of the community) and describes what the fence can look like. These are the original CCRs. There have been no amendments.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't know how others might feel, but CC&Rs comprise a document that all owners must adhere to. When owners buy in a HOA, they should have read them in advance of signing off to make sure they can live with the restrictions.
It probably takes a super majority of owners--maybe 66, 75 or even more % to amend the CC&Rs. But if enough owners can think of an amendment that might suit most owners they should ask the Board to consider such an amendment.
It probably takes a super majority of owners--maybe 66, 75 or even more % to amend the CC&Rs. But if enough owners can think of an amendment that might suit most owners they should ask the Board to consider such an amendment.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
It's common for houses backing to a golf course not to have fences.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradS10 on 02/07/2024 3:41 AM
The lots are listed in the CCRs. The list seems to be arbitrary. Is that enforable?
The lots are listed in the CCRs. The list seems to be arbitrary. Is that enforable?
If the lots are listed, yes it is enforceable.
In so,e CCRs the Board can place restrictions on lots with special characteristics by simply notifying the owners of the lots the board has maade a determination. Example would be no fences on corner lots.
BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
I think there would have to be something common or a specific reason for the ban. Like corner lots, golf course lots or something specific in the lots that can’t have fences. The CCRs require 100% of the community to change since the CCRs provide no specific requirements for updating them.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradS10 on 02/07/2024 5:32 PM
[The CCRs?] also specifically ban childs play sets and sport courts in the lots that are not permitted to have a fence.
[The CCRs?] also specifically ban childs play sets and sport courts in the lots that are not permitted to have a fence.
Washington State Human Rights Commission, https://www.hum.wa.gov/
711 South Capitol Way, #402,
P.O. Box 42490
Olympia, WA 98504-2490
(360) 753-6770
If you wish to pursue this further, consider creating an email address just for this group, and I will contact you.
As for the fence covenant: If this covenant was in the original, un-amended covenants, then the courts will //not// apply a reasonableness test. In other words, something that seems not reasonable in the original covenants is rarely going to be thrown out by the courts, unless maybe there is an FHA violation.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please supply the CC&R wordding that bans play sets and sports courts, Brad.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please supply the CC&R wordding that bans play sets and sports courts, Brad.
BradS10
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
Here is the detail regarding the CCR rule on fences. My interpretation is the intention is to ban privacy fences and not open wrought iron fences like I am requesting. As stated previously there is nothing consistent regarding the lots that are allowed to have a fence. Some back up to the golf course, some back up to streets in the HOA, some back up to other and major streets. Lot 18 for example is a few houses down from mine and on the same golf course hole but allowed to have a fence. The HOA also refuses to enforce a wrought iron front fence and chick coop back fence for one of the board members. I have been informed that if i were to install either i would be fined.
Fences:
No fences or walls shall be permitted on any lots except as follows:
- On Lots #18,19,20,21,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76 & 77. Only Echo Falls Fence detail & paint color (per Exhibit C) shall be permitted on these lots and may extend no nearer to any street than the minimum front lot line setback of 30 ft.
- Landscape hedges amy be used for privacy and to be reviewed by the ACC.
- Small dog runs will be allowed if properly screened and landscaped. (subject to the approval of the ACC)
- Swimming pool fencing to be allowed and approved by the architectural control committee.
Exhibit C is a 6ft cedar fence with a specific style and color.
And here is the wording on children's play-sets and sport courts:
3.3.6 Construction of sports courts. (These will only be considered for non-golf
course lots and, in general, will not be lighted.)
3.3.7 Installation of children's play equipment, fixed or mobile. (Generally, these
will not be allowed in rear yards facing the golf course. When approved for front or side yards,
they should be screened by landscaping. -Basketball hoops must be mobile and capable of being
removed and stored in garages during the winters.)
My request was denied for a playset in the backyard. I have asked for a specific reason since the language suggests generally not allowed. I asked the ACC what i could do to make it work and they keep pointing to the rule saying its all playsets and there are no circumstances that it will be allowed. The language that indicates that they would be allowed on front or side yards is disingenuous since all houses are built too close to the front or side to allow a play structure based off this CCR rule:
Side yards are only 10ft and 2ft of that is a required easement. The HOA also declines applications for any structures(including Playsets) that are within 10 ft a side lot line or closer than 30ft to the front lot line. I could submit an app for the front yard but im 100% certain it will be declined since it isn't possible to keep it more than 30ft away from the street in any house in the neighborhood.
Fences:
No fences or walls shall be permitted on any lots except as follows:
- On Lots #18,19,20,21,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76 & 77. Only Echo Falls Fence detail & paint color (per Exhibit C) shall be permitted on these lots and may extend no nearer to any street than the minimum front lot line setback of 30 ft.
- Landscape hedges amy be used for privacy and to be reviewed by the ACC.
- Small dog runs will be allowed if properly screened and landscaped. (subject to the approval of the ACC)
- Swimming pool fencing to be allowed and approved by the architectural control committee.
Exhibit C is a 6ft cedar fence with a specific style and color.
And here is the wording on children's play-sets and sport courts:
3.3.6 Construction of sports courts. (These will only be considered for non-golf
course lots and, in general, will not be lighted.)
3.3.7 Installation of children's play equipment, fixed or mobile. (Generally, these
will not be allowed in rear yards facing the golf course. When approved for front or side yards,
they should be screened by landscaping. -Basketball hoops must be mobile and capable of being
removed and stored in garages during the winters.)
My request was denied for a playset in the backyard. I have asked for a specific reason since the language suggests generally not allowed. I asked the ACC what i could do to make it work and they keep pointing to the rule saying its all playsets and there are no circumstances that it will be allowed. The language that indicates that they would be allowed on front or side yards is disingenuous since all houses are built too close to the front or side to allow a play structure based off this CCR rule:
Side yards are only 10ft and 2ft of that is a required easement. The HOA also declines applications for any structures(including Playsets) that are within 10 ft a side lot line or closer than 30ft to the front lot line. I could submit an app for the front yard but im 100% certain it will be declined since it isn't possible to keep it more than 30ft away from the street in any house in the neighborhood.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradS10 on 03/17/2024 11:05 AM
My request was denied for a playset in the backyard. I have asked for a specific reason since the language suggests generally not allowed. I asked the ACC what i could do to make it work and they keep pointing to the rule saying its all playsets and there are no circumstances that it will be allowed.
My request was denied for a playset in the backyard. I have asked for a specific reason since the language suggests generally not allowed. I asked the ACC what i could do to make it work and they keep pointing to the rule saying its all playsets and there are no circumstances that it will be allowed.
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