CarolynS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Hi Guys, I would like to know what kind of procedures should we take if one of the Board Members is being exluded from board meetings, and everything that has to do with the Board?
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Started by CarolynS1 • 10 replies • 1546 views
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DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
Carolyn,
All I have to say is "WHAT??? and Why??? Sorry to get nuts but what the heck is going on? NO, unless there is a very solid reason such as they(the member) is not in good standing, then they are required to be allowed to sit on all Board activities. Residents have elected this person or they were appointed to be a Board member. Tell us what is going on.
CarolynS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Well, I confronted one of the board members because on several occasions, I found out that he was referring people to work on projects for the complex, and he was using the contractor's license to work under himself, therefore getting paid for the job, causing a conflict of interest.
Ever since I confronted them, they have turned their backs on me. Now, they are making Board decisions, signing checks without my knowledge, etc, etc.,
What steps should I take to resolve this? I have been calling for a meeting to discuss these matters, but for one month they have been avoiding me and postponing the meeting.
Thanks
Ever since I confronted them, they have turned their backs on me. Now, they are making Board decisions, signing checks without my knowledge, etc, etc.,
What steps should I take to resolve this? I have been calling for a meeting to discuss these matters, but for one month they have been avoiding me and postponing the meeting.
Thanks
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
Carloyn,
What do the other Board members think about this? You have Statutes in California on how a BOD is to function. Davis /Sterling Act, I believe it is called. Your Board is required to follow this Act. You need to get some backing and if it takes copying the parts from Davis/Sterling on meeting requirements, which include all Board members, then copy it and make sure that everyone knows what it says.
The Board member who is referring people to work is not breaking any rules but once he becomes involved in the actual work,and is getting compensated, then it is a conflict of interest. You cannot do all of this by yourself. You need others who can give you support in numbers and knowledge of the laws.
CarolynS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Hi Donna S,
Well, it's not directly the board member, but the boyfriend doing the jobs, and getting paid on the side... Does it still matter, is it still a conflict of interest?
The rest of the board is aware of the situation, but obviously they don't care.
What would happen is this person gets injured while doing a job for our premises?
Well, it's not directly the board member, but the boyfriend doing the jobs, and getting paid on the side... Does it still matter, is it still a conflict of interest?
The rest of the board is aware of the situation, but obviously they don't care.
What would happen is this person gets injured while doing a job for our premises?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
CarolynS,
Does the association have a Lawyer on retainer? Try that. I would narrow this down to the President as he would be more responsible for this kind of mis=conduct. Keep trying to work iy out, try and get Noard members, secretary and any management to sign a statement of what is going on. They will probable refuse, so make accurate notes sabout all you do. If I am correct about you being this board member being harmed, look your documents over and see what is written about Board meetings. There should be something in there about "Notice of Meetings." The entire Board has to be notified a specific number of days before meetings. Dig anything out in yout focuments aand ask them to sign they have read it and keep notes.
It will be a process aand sooner or later you will get your message across and they may be in for a Law suit. Go back to the annual meeting minutes about your election and ask the Board to sign it.
You can try certified letters to the Board about your concerns. Just to gaither evidence. Make as much noise to the people that elected you as you can. Call a town hall meeting to discuss all this.
If conditions are as you state, you harm probably been harmed in the legal sense. But most of the time it is best to work it out in house.
This could be a long battle, and to speed things up your can hire a lawyet to trptrdrnt you or you could stop by a Legal Aid office and see if you can get a lawyer there to write a letter. The board is doing so many things in this mess, I would venture to say they have been in trouble before and are probably entrenched or a few dominate the rest.
This is just an opinion and given with the understanding I don't know both sides to the pancake.
:et us know how you make out.
Does the association have a Lawyer on retainer? Try that. I would narrow this down to the President as he would be more responsible for this kind of mis=conduct. Keep trying to work iy out, try and get Noard members, secretary and any management to sign a statement of what is going on. They will probable refuse, so make accurate notes sabout all you do. If I am correct about you being this board member being harmed, look your documents over and see what is written about Board meetings. There should be something in there about "Notice of Meetings." The entire Board has to be notified a specific number of days before meetings. Dig anything out in yout focuments aand ask them to sign they have read it and keep notes.
It will be a process aand sooner or later you will get your message across and they may be in for a Law suit. Go back to the annual meeting minutes about your election and ask the Board to sign it.
You can try certified letters to the Board about your concerns. Just to gaither evidence. Make as much noise to the people that elected you as you can. Call a town hall meeting to discuss all this.
If conditions are as you state, you harm probably been harmed in the legal sense. But most of the time it is best to work it out in house.
This could be a long battle, and to speed things up your can hire a lawyet to trptrdrnt you or you could stop by a Legal Aid office and see if you can get a lawyer there to write a letter. The board is doing so many things in this mess, I would venture to say they have been in trouble before and are probably entrenched or a few dominate the rest.
This is just an opinion and given with the understanding I don't know both sides to the pancake.
:et us know how you make out.
CarolynS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for the advise. We had this problem in the complex where the back lights of the back area where tampered with. One of the board member's boyfriend (who by the way is our Treasurer) referred an electrician to do the job. They had verbally quoted the job to be between $4K to $5K. It ended being for $6K... Later on I found out that most of the money went to the board member's boyfriend's pocket (who happen to live together).
On a separate occasion we had another problem with a leak. One of the homeowners work for the Water Department, so he was called to help with the emergency. On one of the meetings it was discussed that the payment was going to be for $2600.00, well this guy (the boyfriend)helped again, and when we signed the checks, it was for $3,600.00 or so.
And again, our Treasurer acknowledged that her boyfriend was making $1,000.00 out of this job...
I might be wrong for being so concerned that they are making this kind of money out of the complex, specially because I know for a fact that the first project was over priced...
Now, they are making decisions on their own, with out letting me know.
On a separate occasion we had another problem with a leak. One of the homeowners work for the Water Department, so he was called to help with the emergency. On one of the meetings it was discussed that the payment was going to be for $2600.00, well this guy (the boyfriend)helped again, and when we signed the checks, it was for $3,600.00 or so.
And again, our Treasurer acknowledged that her boyfriend was making $1,000.00 out of this job...
I might be wrong for being so concerned that they are making this kind of money out of the complex, specially because I know for a fact that the first project was over priced...
Now, they are making decisions on their own, with out letting me know.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
CarolynS said: "specially because I know for a fact that the first project was over priced..."
Well, technically, a more accurate statement might be that you know that the first project was over BUDGET, because it may well have been within a reasonable price range.
A quote should never have been made just verbally, unless there was some sort of extenuating circumstance or it was some sort of emergency.
However, a quote for something like that often can end up different from the actual cost once the project begins, based on unforeseen or unknown variables.
And, it may or may not be a verifiable conflict of interest going on, but it certainly is setting itself up to APPEAR as a conflict of interest, and, as we all know, "perception IS reality. . ."
If you are truly concerned about improper quotes being made, then it might be in your best interest to involve yourself in the quote process and scare up a couple of bids for projects on your own.
The other board members should also do everything they can to avoid even the appearance of impropriety and it might be in THEIR best interest to be sure that all projects receive a standardized Request For Bid or Request for Proposal document that lays out the exact work needed and the requirements of the bid or quote. That way all quotes and bids can be compared on an apples-to-apples basis and not just granted through verbal low-balling.
(I think that's what the boyfriend did, by the way. It's not necessarily unethical to low-ball bids, but not a good business practice, either. And, of course, when you low-ball like that, very often you do end up having to charge more once the actual work is done because you bid too low to begin with.)
Well, technically, a more accurate statement might be that you know that the first project was over BUDGET, because it may well have been within a reasonable price range.
A quote should never have been made just verbally, unless there was some sort of extenuating circumstance or it was some sort of emergency.
However, a quote for something like that often can end up different from the actual cost once the project begins, based on unforeseen or unknown variables.
And, it may or may not be a verifiable conflict of interest going on, but it certainly is setting itself up to APPEAR as a conflict of interest, and, as we all know, "perception IS reality. . ."
If you are truly concerned about improper quotes being made, then it might be in your best interest to involve yourself in the quote process and scare up a couple of bids for projects on your own.
The other board members should also do everything they can to avoid even the appearance of impropriety and it might be in THEIR best interest to be sure that all projects receive a standardized Request For Bid or Request for Proposal document that lays out the exact work needed and the requirements of the bid or quote. That way all quotes and bids can be compared on an apples-to-apples basis and not just granted through verbal low-balling.
(I think that's what the boyfriend did, by the way. It's not necessarily unethical to low-ball bids, but not a good business practice, either. And, of course, when you low-ball like that, very often you do end up having to charge more once the actual work is done because you bid too low to begin with.)
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
Bottom line is the "Live in" of a board member has to be considered as an extension of the Board Members family, and should not be involved in doing work for the regime that the Board members signs off on or approve or disapprove. Clear conflict of interest. It's not like he is the only person in the world capable of doing the work.
The second point being the practice of ignoring and not allowing an elected Board member to participate in the Activities of the Board. Clearly improper or worse, and should be stopped immediately. I would not be surprised to find that the entire Board could be held responsibile for damages.
Bottom line is the "Live in" of a board member has to be considered as an extension of the Board Members family, and should not be involved in doing work for the regime that the Board members signs off on or approve or disapprove. Clear conflict of interest. It's not like he is the only person in the world capable of doing the work.
The second point being the practice of ignoring and not allowing an elected Board member to participate in the Activities of the Board. Clearly improper or worse, and should be stopped immediately. I would not be surprised to find that the entire Board could be held responsibile for damages.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
CarolynS1:
The problem may actually lie in the PROCESS by which the Board is using to initiate bids from contractors to perform work for the community.
The process, to benefit all, should be that multiple bids (3?) are solicited and then reviewed and determined for the best possible cost for the best possible work from an insured contractor. It is common sense for the assn. to only deal with contractors who are adequately insured and this is important for the Assn.'s insurance company to relay to the Board.
You may want to take the initiative to put on the agenda for the next Board meeting or member meeting the item of "Bidding Process"--to use when any work needs to be performed and paid for. The process itself may also be considered as an Amendment to your Declaration or Bylaws by which it is required that a percentage of members voting yes are needed for the amendment to pass. This way, the need for a process to be insitituted will be brought before the membership. All bids need to be treated professionally, retained on file, and
the contract decisions awarded are made at a Board meeting with complete minutes reflecting same.
You need to seriously review the process (or lack of!!!) by which the Board is going about this--boyfriend or no boyfriend, if proper channels are not being taken it could be viewed against the Board. The Board needs to fulfill its fudiciary duty to the membership (its in your docs!), and a professional way of securing bids and payment for contracts are part of this role and responsibility. Good Luck with your fellow Board members!
The problem may actually lie in the PROCESS by which the Board is using to initiate bids from contractors to perform work for the community.
The process, to benefit all, should be that multiple bids (3?) are solicited and then reviewed and determined for the best possible cost for the best possible work from an insured contractor. It is common sense for the assn. to only deal with contractors who are adequately insured and this is important for the Assn.'s insurance company to relay to the Board.
You may want to take the initiative to put on the agenda for the next Board meeting or member meeting the item of "Bidding Process"--to use when any work needs to be performed and paid for. The process itself may also be considered as an Amendment to your Declaration or Bylaws by which it is required that a percentage of members voting yes are needed for the amendment to pass. This way, the need for a process to be insitituted will be brought before the membership. All bids need to be treated professionally, retained on file, and
the contract decisions awarded are made at a Board meeting with complete minutes reflecting same.
You need to seriously review the process (or lack of!!!) by which the Board is going about this--boyfriend or no boyfriend, if proper channels are not being taken it could be viewed against the Board. The Board needs to fulfill its fudiciary duty to the membership (its in your docs!), and a professional way of securing bids and payment for contracts are part of this role and responsibility. Good Luck with your fellow Board members!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
RobertR said: "Bottom line is the "Live in" of a board member has to be considered as an extension of the Board Members family, and should not be involved in doing work for the regime that the Board members signs off on or approve or disapprove."
Actually, Robert, I respectfully disagree on this blanket statement, with a caveat. Certainly the board member should abstain. But otherwise, there is nothing inherently wrong or of a conflict in nature by the rest of the statement.
There are many circumstances where a resident, even if that resident is the relation and/or Significant Other of a board member, can and would obtain the successful bid for a project.
If the procedures Paul outlined, along with a few other policies, are followed, there is no need to automatically presume that a conflict of interest has occurred.
My husband owns a point-of-sale/cash register company. If we had a gift shop, and he submitted bids that were reviewed by the board and voted on, then there is no reason why he could not or should not win that bid if so voted. I would abstain from voting, of course, that should be part of the policies and procedures on the bid process.
What we are seeing in this case, I believe, is appropriate bidding/contract search policies were not followed, and that leaves the perception, at the very least, of conflict of interest.
But in no way can we make a blanket statement that relatives/significant others of board members cannot submit bids and quote UNLESS THE ORGANIZATION'S GOVERNING DOCUMENTS SPECIFICALLY DISALLOW IT.
Actually, Robert, I respectfully disagree on this blanket statement, with a caveat. Certainly the board member should abstain. But otherwise, there is nothing inherently wrong or of a conflict in nature by the rest of the statement.
There are many circumstances where a resident, even if that resident is the relation and/or Significant Other of a board member, can and would obtain the successful bid for a project.
If the procedures Paul outlined, along with a few other policies, are followed, there is no need to automatically presume that a conflict of interest has occurred.
My husband owns a point-of-sale/cash register company. If we had a gift shop, and he submitted bids that were reviewed by the board and voted on, then there is no reason why he could not or should not win that bid if so voted. I would abstain from voting, of course, that should be part of the policies and procedures on the bid process.
What we are seeing in this case, I believe, is appropriate bidding/contract search policies were not followed, and that leaves the perception, at the very least, of conflict of interest.
But in no way can we make a blanket statement that relatives/significant others of board members cannot submit bids and quote UNLESS THE ORGANIZATION'S GOVERNING DOCUMENTS SPECIFICALLY DISALLOW IT.
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