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BarbaraG4 (Nebraska)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Our HOA recently approved a special assessment for partial payment to dredge the pond in our neighborhood, with the knowledge that the BOD would obtain financing for the balance to be paid out over the next 7 to 10 years. One member of the Association has offered to loan the money at a lower interest percentage rate than what the bank will offer. Our bylaws are not clear on whether this loan is "legal", but I have a suspicion that the other members of the Association may not be happy about one person profiting from the loan. I can't find any other cases of this happening in another HOA. Any thoughts?
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
BarbaraG4 - I wouldn't be in favor of something like you describe, too many possible conflicts of interest. But the member, while profiting, may be saving the association money. Don't forget, the member will be paying himself back on the loan as well. As with any loan, the terms must be very carefully reviewed.
BarbaraG4 (Nebraska)
Posts: 11
Posted:
The savings on a private loan versus a bank loan would be approximately $2000 over the 10-year payment plan. How far does a BOD have to go to make the members of the HOA part of their decision? At a recent HOA meeting there was discussion of various bank loans available, one of which would be using "private funds" for collateral on the loan. This immediately raised the question of who the private donor would be and the committee members involved in the research of the loan claimed they didn't know who the private donor was. The discussion of a private loan with this individual never came up at that meeting but was offered later. The word "lawsuit" has been bandied about at meetings in the past when certain homeowners weren't happy about Board direction. Again, I think it goes back to whether the bylaws are clear enough on this issue - is it OK for an Association member to profit from Association business? The BOD has a fiduciary duty to obtain the best "deal" for the Association, but is it legal? Finally, some literature I've found recommends hiring an attorney to get a final view of the loan paperwork - does anyone have any experience with this?
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BarbaraG4: IMO, you would be taking a monumental risk by having an assn. member cover the loan and making loan payments back to this person. Are you prepared for the many pitfalls that could occur with this arrangement?
In my mind, certainly not worth a savings of $2K over a 10 yr period. More downsides than upsides.

BarbaraG4 (Nebraska)
Posts: 11
Posted:
We are trying to determine exactly what those pitfalls might be....
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
BarbaraG said: "is it OK for an Association member to profit from Association business? "

My answer: It depends.

There is no real way to answer this just based on that bit of information alone.

If the Association member provides a good or service that is properly bid out (key words), AND the governing documents DON'T prevent such a thing from happening, I don't see a problem with it.

In fact, our board has been known to actively solicit bids through the newsletter from homeowners who have goods or services that we might avail ourselves of.

I believe they take the position that it's like "buying local."

And, if the homeowner IS providing a good or service, they are certainly entitled to a reasonable profit. They shouldn't be expected to have to provide it for free. Simply because they live here.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Barbara,
IMHO I would not touch a private lender of any kind. Too much can go wrong and it seems way to complicated to devise. Stick with a local bank and the $2000 over time will mean nothing. Also and this is important, you will be establishing a credit record with a bank, which is not a bad thing to have.

Your private lender could end up owning the association where a bank will make concessions to keep from taking over the place. Suppose your President and your treasuer decide they need money more than the association does and run to Club Med for a 3 month hiatus. They spend the money and go to jail, the association has to pay creditors, better a bank than a private owner, or private lender. Maybe you can get him to give you the money and you can erect a statute in his honor.

Do you think a public business would borrow money from a private lender?
Remember for the Board. "It is not your money, and it is to be used to protect the Real Property." What you want to use it for seems valid, whereas how you want to get the money is simply not a good business judgement using the associations money. IMHO
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
One last remark.

You borrow money from a bank; what do you owe.....money.

You borrow money from an owner and what do you owe..........money and ????????????
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
RobertR1: Stated exactly right!
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
I have been told that HOAs cannot be in debt. Or is this a state by state statute?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Jan,
I believe because of the State Not For Profit Corporation laws, HOAs must operate under those requirements and debts are not allowed within certain requirements.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
If your association is allowed to borrow money and this owner sets a lower interest rate than the bank then I don't think there is an issue. As someone said they have to borrow money and repay money, why not repay less. IF this homeowner has the money to loan and wants to assume that risk then I don't see a problem with it.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Brad, your post makes excellent sense.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
To all: what might some of the pitfalls be in a situation with the private lender also being a resident? I can think of a few...

- as the lender, he may have unspoken 'expectations' for the Board/assn.
- is he solvent
- repercussions if/when he moves out
- business contract without credibility

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Paul,
You missed the biggie and the one that could bring down the house of cards, and that is what it is.

The appearance of inpropriority.

Why do Boards insist on making trouble for themselves and the Regime? Now if the money is needed and a capital assessment won't do it, why look around for the most complicated way to get the money.

Nothing I have heard is justification to enter this private financing deal. It seems we want to explain all the pro and cons as some kind of intellectual excercise and the issue becomes just about how well you can articulate your side of the argument. For my money, a board has to have justification that the money is needed, next comes where do you get the money. The argument is not that of accepting the lowest bidder, the purpose becomes how does the Board do this in the most accepted and safe manner.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
RobertR1: I was sure you would be able to provide addtl important info. You are so right!

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Paul and Robert:

I guess I didn't finish my statement, I think it is ok only if a detailed contract is drawn up which specifies amount lended, repayment plan and rate, expectations, etc. It should be no different than a loan from a different lender or bank. In that case it doesn't matter if they move, it doesn't matter what expectations they have, it should all be spelled out in the contract.
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulM on 02/05/2008 5:53 AM
To all: what might some of the pitfalls be in a situation with the private lender also being a resident? I can think of a few...

- as the lender, he may have unspoken 'expectations' for the Board/assn.
- is he solvent
- repercussions if/when he moves out
- business contract without credibility


Also, what about the loan servicing side of this? Let's say the loan is 5 yrs with 60 payments:
- If the person moves, the HOA must ensure they get the new address and keep making payments to the right place.
- Will the person be honest/diligent in recording all 60 payments and giving proper credit to the HOA for them? If not, the HOA will need to be able to prove they were sent, cashed & made on time. Will the HOA keep canceled checks going back 5 yrs to prove this?
- Will the lender (owner) provide the proper payoff papers to the HOA once the loan is paid off?

Just keep in mind these hassles when considering this 'deal'. One disagreement requiring an attorney to be hired may nullify any interest savings.

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hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
PS - Will the owner lender send payment statements to the HOA manager like a bank would? Without a regular payment request, the payments may not be made by the HOA.

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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Brad, Paul and HoaTalk,

As you all know, a lot of Association live on the edge now, with bad management, no interest owners, poor controls, entrenched boards, hurricanes, flooding, being blowed away and developement pressures.
Again we go back to it is not what we would do; it is what should we do with money that don't belong to us. I hope I never have to decide that the only way to get money is to borrow it from anyone. Then it seems to me you select the most stable part of the equation. Certainly the Association hasn't established any type of permanency, they are for the most part living month to month. Add an individual into the mix and more problems arise. The only choice it to go to the bank, at least you are bringing some solidarity into the mix.

Question, has ANYONE had to borrow money for their association that we know about. I suspect it would be tough to get a bank to loan money to an association. Would be a very complicated deal unless collateral could be raised and if the association could collaterize the loan (with fund's, etc/, why would they want to? Even if there was a lot of land involved, it is vested in the PO, and condo's would be worse, you maybe have to get every owner to sign off on it.
BarbaraG4 (Nebraska)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks for everybody's thoughts! It turns out that the BOD voted 2-1 for a bank loan with the bank the HOA has used for 8 years. It was actually quite easy to obtain the loan using past tax returns, bank statements and financial statements. The BOD may be able to pay back the loan early without another assessment, barring unforeseen circumstances. The pros and cons mentioned in this forum were a huge help. It turns out that more than one Association member wanted to take part in the private financing and that could have proven to be a legal and contractual nightmare, not to mention how many other members would have decided that they wanted to be part of the loan as well once the word got out. It is interesting to note that the Secretary sent out the minutes of the board meeting with a discussion of private financing and not one person called to complain or comment! However, it makes more sense to establish credit for the HOA and not open a Pandora's box with one or more private financiers. Going with a bank loan does not mean that drama will not ensue - the one unhappy board member is convinced that there will be some very angry neighbors, but that remains to be seen. Ultimately, the board has chosen a very professional manner of financing, most of the members appear to be on the same page at this time, and it was nice to know that more than one would offer personal financial assistance if we couldn't obtain a bank loan.

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