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SteveS35 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hi All, and very new here

Our Mountain community has a small HOA with monthly online Board meetings. The meetings are great for members to understand where our membership dues (Over $600,000) are being spent and how the community is being run.

Recently, the board disabled the "chat" portion of the online google board meetings. This has frustrated many and we are ASKING: "Is there a Colorado HOA Law that gives the board the right to disable chat?"

I ask because, the Bylaws do not specify that level of detail. Many people say that it violates member 'Accessibility.'

Thanks
Steve
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
For questions like this, always search the bylaws and the applicable statutes. The Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act does require that owners be allowed to participate as follows:

"At an appropriate time determined by the board, but before the board votes on an issue under discussion, unit owners or their designated representatives shall be permitted to speak regarding that issue. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on persons speaking during the meeting. If more than one person desires to address an issue and there are opposing views, the board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of the issue."

If the bylaws say otherwise, then state statutes trump the bylaws. If you need the latter explained to you, ask.

See https://casetext.com/statute/colorado-revised-statutes/title-38-property-real-and-personal/real-property/interests-in-land/article-333-colorado-common-interest-ownership-act/part-3-management-of-the-common-interest-community/section-38-333-308-meetings
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Typically, non board members are there to observe - not participate, until a specified time in the meeting. We use the Open Forum section of the agenda for this.

That said, chat can be annoying if it's popping up while things are being discussed.

I would expect enabling or disabling the chat function would be the option of the board.
Regardless of that decision, having the online meeting only would meet statute requirements.

If you want to get around the lack of a chat function - send texts via cell phone.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
It may depend on what this chat feature does. The ones I've seen can have some downsides. They can distract the person who is running the meeting, or interrupt or disrupt the proceedings. Or there can be a lot of side conversations that are going on, and the folks won't be paying attention to the board discussions in any case. If these things were happening, then it's appropriate that the chat feature be disabled. A board meeting isn't a social event.

My employer uses Teams, and I find the little side conversations to be distracting even if I'm not participating. The moving text catches my eye, and I may miss something important as a result. If I were actually speaking at the time, it would drive me crazy.

Is chat the only way that owners can speak during the meetings? I know that Zoom and Teams allow such things without use of a chat feature - if you're using Zoom or similar software, I suggest asking about it.
SteveS35 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
THANK YOU
I think we are GETTING really close. Historically, our HOA community has run board meetings in a townhall (city council) fashion, because the meetings purpose is to keep the community informed, with reports on Operations: roads, maintenance, office, and water quality, Finance reports; and a host of other community related thing.) We are small, only about 165 homes, and the HOA is our own 'city government department.'

Your comment about the ability for members to comment in discussions is critical to a successful community. In a google online meeting, the chat window is on the side, and is normally available for members to participate.

With participation as a key factor, I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well. Am I wrong?

Thanks
Steve

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What? Now we are going to pull in the disability act because you can't chat on an online forum?

Our HOA we most likely would not have a chat up either while having a meeting. I find it distracting and unnecessary. It has it's time and place. If you have an issue with your HOA, should have already submitted the issue in writing to your HOA to discuss at that online meeting. I also try to encourage providing a solution to the problem otherwise you got the HOA deciding it for you.

Why not request once the meeting has ended, that there is an open chat period for 30 minutes for questions and interactions. It's better time for it anyways.

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
With participation as a key factor,
It is not merely a key factor. In Colorado allowing owners to comment on every topic at a board meeting is Thee Law. Per statute, owners must be unmuted for each agenda topic at a certain point in the discussion of the topic.

Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well.
It is the federal and state fair housing acts (which are not the same as the ADA) that require the HOA to provide a "reasonable accommodation" to disabled owners wishing to attend board meetings. Whether a requested accommodation is "reasonable" just depends. But I will give you a hint: If it costs the HOA a lot of money, the chances are good the HOA does not have to provide the accommodation.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Since owners are permitted to speak about each agenda item, good. Any owner who drones on & one can be muted. Better yet, the Board can vote to make a policy with reasonable rules about Zoom meeting owner participation.

Our Board's Zoom meetings permits owners to particulate with the audio function during two open forums (no requirement in CA that owners speak on each agenda time if thy wish). The Chat feature is discouraged and only seems to be used when there's some sort of technical difficulty.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
THANK YOU
I think we are GETTING really close. Historically, our HOA community has run board meetings in a townhall (city council) fashion, because the meetings purpose is to keep the community informed, with reports on Operations: roads, maintenance, office, and water quality, Finance reports; and a host of other community related thing.) We are small, only about 165 homes, and the HOA is our own 'city government department.'

Your comment about the ability for members to comment in discussions is critical to a successful community. In a google online meeting, the chat window is on the side, and is normally available for members to participate.

With participation as a key factor, I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well. Am I wrong?

Thanks
Steve


When HOA boards are required or opt to have open Board meetings, attendees are normal given a period during the meeting to comment. Each person who speaks is giving a time limit. I see no reason why an online meeting should not be conducted the same way.

I am going to assume your primary pupose for attending the meeting was to listen and be informed. Chatting during an in person meeting would not be permitted because it is a disruption of the meeting. To a lesser degree, so would an open chat window in an online meeting.

I suspect the reason the chat function was disable is because some of your residents were making inappropriate comments.
SteveS35 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/24/2024 5:09 PM
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
With participation as a key factor,
It is not merely a key factor. In Colorado allowing owners to comment on every topic at a board meeting is Thee Law. Per statute, owners must be unmuted for each agenda topic at a certain point in the discussion of the topic.

Thank you
you may have guessed that the reason I am posting here, and asking about this, because it's important to the members to feel that they are genuinely able to particiapte.

Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well.
It is the federal and state fair housing acts (which are not the same as the ADA) that require the HOA to provide a "reasonable accommodation" to disabled owners wishing to attend board meetings. Whether a requested accommodation is "reasonable" just depends. But I will give you a hint: If it costs the HOA a lot of money, the chances are good the HOA does not have to provide the accommodation.

Yes, in an ideal world, everyone would have a camera and a microphone when the connect to a monthly board meeting, but we all know that that is not always the case. I agree that a 'physical disabilities' are in jeopardy, as well as another person's technical inabilities.

Whether or not the chat is distracting is not the issue. The point is that I believe that according to the LAW, that disabling chat is a violation. I would like to find an "exact reference" that I can present to the board.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
THANK YOU
I think we are GETTING really close. Historically, our HOA community has run board meetings in a townhall (city council) fashion, because the meetings purpose is to keep the community informed, with reports on Operations: roads, maintenance, office, and water quality, Finance reports; and a host of other community related thing.) We are small, only about 165 homes, and the HOA is our own 'city government department.'

Your comment about the ability for members to comment in discussions is critical to a successful community. In a google online meeting, the chat window is on the side, and is normally available for members to participate.

With participation as a key factor, I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well. Am I wrong?

Thanks
Steve


There seems to be some confusion about the nature of the meeting. Board meetings and townhall-style meetings are two different things.

The purpose of a board meeting is for the board to conduct association business. Period. Homeowners are allowed to observe, and many states require a period during which owners may comment. But owners do not participate in board discussions, nor do they have a vote.

Town-hall and similar meetings are held to keep the owners informed. No association business is conducted, and the meeting itself may be informal.

The third type of meeting is a membership meeting in which limited business is conducted. Meetings of this type include the annual meeting (to hold board elections) and special meetings that are held for a specific purpose (for example, to allow owners to vote on an amendment to the governing documents). These meetings have strict notice and quorum requirements, and no other business besides the announced item may be conducted (going off script may make any actions legally invalid and require a do-over).

Importantly, you should not and often may not mix the kinds of meetings you're holding. At best it will cause confusion and lead to poor outcomes. At worst it will invalidate any action taken during the meeting and can lead to legal challenges (also known as "lawyering up"). Lawyering up is costly for everyone involved.

Chat may be appropriate for informal meetings of the membership, but it's also a recipe for going off the rails. It is not appropriate for board meetings or the annual/special meetings. These are business meetings, not social events - all attendees should conduct themselves accordingly.

Also, regarding the ADA: Fair Housing and ADA laws require "reasonable accommodations" to allow people to participate. Importantly, they do not require that people be given their preferred accommodation, only one that allows them to participate. Online meetings with chat disabled is an acceptable accommodation, *because chatting is not the purpose of the meeting". Social events are different, but that's not what we're talking about here.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 10:02 PM
The point is that I believe that according to the LAW, that disabling chat is a violation. I would like to find an "exact reference" that I can present to the board.
That reference is Colo. Rev. Stat. ยง 38-33.3-308, applicable to Colorado HOAs. It states in part:

Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/24/2024 10:53 AM

"At an appropriate time determined by the board, but before the board votes on an issue under discussion, unit owners or their designated representatives shall be permitted to speak regarding that issue. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on persons speaking during the meeting. If more than one person desires to address an issue and there are opposing views, the board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of the issue."


See https://casetext.com/statute/colorado-revised-statutes/title-38-property-real-and-personal/real-property/interests-in-land/article-333-colorado-common-interest-ownership-act/part-3-management-of-the-common-interest-community/section-38-333-308-meetings.

This was provided above. What did you not understand when you saw the post above?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 01/25/2024 5:13 AM

Also, regarding the ADA: Fair Housing and ADA laws require "reasonable accommodations" to allow people to participate. Importantly, they do not require that people be given their preferred accommodation, only one that allows them to participate.
... when the cost is not excessive. For example, a deaf person requests a sign language interpreter. I doubt a court would require a HOA to pay for this interpreter. In my opinion a court would require that the HOA permit the presence of a sign language interpreter paid for by the deaf owner.

Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 01/25/2024 5:13 AM
Online meetings with chat disabled is an acceptable accommodation, *because chatting is not the purpose of the meeting". Social events are different, but that's not what we're talking about here.
?

During a HOA board meeting, Colorado statutes require that owners be allowed to comment on each agenda topic.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
"Colorado statutes require that owners be allowed to comment on each agenda topic" does not equal "Colorado statutes require chat". There are other options which responsible adults ought to be able to figure out. And that's the point: chat is not essential. "I want it" is not a good reason to make it a requirement.

Do I think that chat is being used to comment on each agenda topic? No, I do not. I think this is more a symptom of people being unable to function without being able to blurt whatever thought enters their heads to the world at large, whether the world at large is interested or would benefit from same.

(Someone I know recently posted this on Twitter: "Just checked voicemails. I have twelve of them from flying home. This makes me want to throw my phone into a snowbank and go live as a wolverine. Or something else that bites people that approach it.")
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 01/25/2024 10:21 AM
"Colorado statutes require that owners be allowed to comment on each agenda topic" does not equal "Colorado statutes require chat".
I think you did not read the statute section quoted above.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The statute says Owners may "speak," which is an oral activity. My (mis?)understanding of the chat function my HOA's Zoom board meetings is that owners type little messages to the Board or to each other. This is greatly discouraged by our Board and rarely used. It is as rude as owners "chatting" among themselves at an in-person meeting. But, again, maybe I misunderstand "chat."

In CO, owners may "speak" to each agenda item whether on Zoom or in person. A few SIMPLE RULES by the Board will keep the meeting orderly and productive.

So, I guess my question to Steve is: why aren't these opportunities to speak adequate enough for your needs? So far as I know, only Colorado & Arizona permit owners to speak about every agenda item. Imo, this is a big plus for homeowners.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/25/2024 10:58 AM
The statute says Owners may "speak," which is an oral activity.
I think whether the 'speaking' may be done by mouth or by writing depends on the context.
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/25/2024 10:58 AM
My (mis?)understanding of the chat function my HOA's Zoom board meetings is that owners type little messages to the Board or to each other.
It could be my misunderstanding of what SteveS35 means as well when he speaks of the chat function. I thought SteveS35 was saying the board is disallowing that owner comment that Colorado statutes in fact require the board to allow. But maybe this is not SteveS35's meaning.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveS35 on 01/24/2024 3:34 PM
Your comment about the ability for members to comment in discussions is critical to a successful community. In a google online meeting, the chat window is on the side, and is normally available for members to participate.

With participation as a key factor, I would think that it could be implied that the American Disability Act would come into play as well. Am I wrong?
Hence it sounds to me like the board wants to prohibit owner participation. This would violate the aforementioned Colorado statute section.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, Steve, please clarify: Do owners contribute via the audio function? Which we know can be muted?

The plain meaning of speaking IN this context is an oral activity. It is not typing.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/25/2024 11:51 AM
The plain meaning of speaking IN this context is an oral activity. It is not typing.
Yeah we disagree.

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