MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Can a board in Texas consider delinquent a charge applied to accounts 7 days earlier?
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Delinquency
Started by MarianneG2 ⢠14 replies ⢠293 views
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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Need more details. We have a rule if payment not received by the 15th we charge $20 late fee. Dues are due 1 + 5 of the month anyways.
Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Depends what the charge is for.
Some things may be payable when the charge is incurred and interest may start accruing immediately. Other things such as assessments are often given a grace period before late charges are posted. But to be clear, the person is actually late during the grace period - they just aren't being charged the late fee yet.
(We had an owner who liked to play chicken with the grace period, and a few times a year he'd get dinged with a late fee. He was OUTRAGED. Every. Single. Time. I finally told him that this was a problem of his own making and that no one could fix it but him. This little song-and-dance stopped when we changed management companies and the new office was too far away for him to shlep a paper check to them.)
Some things may be payable when the charge is incurred and interest may start accruing immediately. Other things such as assessments are often given a grace period before late charges are posted. But to be clear, the person is actually late during the grace period - they just aren't being charged the late fee yet.
(We had an owner who liked to play chicken with the grace period, and a few times a year he'd get dinged with a late fee. He was OUTRAGED. Every. Single. Time. I finally told him that this was a problem of his own making and that no one could fix it but him. This little song-and-dance stopped when we changed management companies and the new office was too far away for him to shlep a paper check to them.)
MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Cathy A, thank you very much for your reply.
May I ask, how did your board distinguish between âlateâ and âdelinquentâ?
May I ask, how did your board distinguish between âlateâ and âdelinquentâ?
MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
MelissaP Thank you so much for your reply.
Would like to understand how other associations distinguish between late and delinquent.
An HOA increase was officially announced 12/13/23. Allowing for the 30 day notice, the charge of 20% increase was added to all accounts 1/13/24.
It appears, in order to play with the quorum counts for our upcoming Annual Homeownerâs meeting 1/27/24, the HOA Board is telling owners at 1 week past due for this charge, they are âdelinquentâ, and will not be counted to make quorum.
As an aside, we have not âmade quorumâ for Annual Homeownerâs meeting for the last 3 years. Consequently we have not held our annual in that time. Many owners are deeply concerned about financial misappropriation by the board president, and believe he was involved in disqualifying legitimate votes/proxies in previous meetings in order to remain in his position.
Iâm sorry if this is TMI, too much infomation, but many owners are determined to reach quorum for this upcoming meeting, so we can elect a new board. And we are concerned current president is using any means possible to once again not make quorum, ie deeming a late payment delinquent to disqualify those owners votes
Melissa, any thoughts or info from your own experience would be deeply appreciated.
And would be extremely grateful to hear from any other members of this page. âşď¸
Thanks
Marianne G
Would like to understand how other associations distinguish between late and delinquent.
An HOA increase was officially announced 12/13/23. Allowing for the 30 day notice, the charge of 20% increase was added to all accounts 1/13/24.
It appears, in order to play with the quorum counts for our upcoming Annual Homeownerâs meeting 1/27/24, the HOA Board is telling owners at 1 week past due for this charge, they are âdelinquentâ, and will not be counted to make quorum.
As an aside, we have not âmade quorumâ for Annual Homeownerâs meeting for the last 3 years. Consequently we have not held our annual in that time. Many owners are deeply concerned about financial misappropriation by the board president, and believe he was involved in disqualifying legitimate votes/proxies in previous meetings in order to remain in his position.
Iâm sorry if this is TMI, too much infomation, but many owners are determined to reach quorum for this upcoming meeting, so we can elect a new board. And we are concerned current president is using any means possible to once again not make quorum, ie deeming a late payment delinquent to disqualify those owners votes
Melissa, any thoughts or info from your own experience would be deeply appreciated.
And would be extremely grateful to hear from any other members of this page. âşď¸
Thanks
Marianne G
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I don't know that there's a legal distinction, and if there is it's possible that it can vary by state. Your community's CC&Rs may also spell out when a late charge can be assessed to an owner.
We viewed "late" as a payment that arrived after the date it was due. But we didn't take steps immediately (ie. the grace period for assessments). When we talked about "delinquent" owners, we generally meant those who had a history of paying late or not at all, and we were starting various processes to deal with this. These processes could include assessing late fees or other charges, filing a lien on the property, turning the account over to our attorney for collection, and all the way up to foreclosure. As you can tell, these processes start with the lowest cost to the HOA and the least negative impact on the owner, and they escalate from there.
Anyone can be late on occasion for things outside of their control. Sometimes the mail is late. One owner in my community was a victim of identity theft, and the bank account she had set up to pay her assessments was closed with short notice. One owner had to pay for an unexpected funeral (a horrible and sad story). We always waived late fees for things outside of people's control, and tried to get people onto payment plans to get their accounts current.
In short, it isn't always black and white. It depends on why the person is paying late and on how likely it is that they'll end up paying what they owe. Our attorney is our collection agent and we follow that person's advice. They deal with this stuff all the time, and they make sure we're abiding by Fair Debt Collection practices.
We viewed "late" as a payment that arrived after the date it was due. But we didn't take steps immediately (ie. the grace period for assessments). When we talked about "delinquent" owners, we generally meant those who had a history of paying late or not at all, and we were starting various processes to deal with this. These processes could include assessing late fees or other charges, filing a lien on the property, turning the account over to our attorney for collection, and all the way up to foreclosure. As you can tell, these processes start with the lowest cost to the HOA and the least negative impact on the owner, and they escalate from there.
Anyone can be late on occasion for things outside of their control. Sometimes the mail is late. One owner in my community was a victim of identity theft, and the bank account she had set up to pay her assessments was closed with short notice. One owner had to pay for an unexpected funeral (a horrible and sad story). We always waived late fees for things outside of people's control, and tried to get people onto payment plans to get their accounts current.
In short, it isn't always black and white. It depends on why the person is paying late and on how likely it is that they'll end up paying what they owe. Our attorney is our collection agent and we follow that person's advice. They deal with this stuff all the time, and they make sure we're abiding by Fair Debt Collection practices.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posts: 190
Posted:
For us you are late if the balance due as of the 1st is not completely cleared on the date the accountant checks, which is sometime after the grace period.
So you could wind up with anywhere from a couple weeks to a bit over a month, depending on the timing.
So you could wind up with anywhere from a couple weeks to a bit over a month, depending on the timing.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We don't have access to your CC&Rs, Marianne, but somewhere in them there probably is a phrase similar to my CC&Rs (covenants, declarations, deed restriction):
"Each installment of Regular Assessments, Special Assessments and Capital Improvement Assessments shall become delinquent if not paid within fifteen (15) days after its due date."
Similarly, your Bylaws is the place to see if the Board is even able to keep Owners from voting if delinquent. Is it true? Or had the o prez made this up?
The other place you'll find when "delinquency" occurs and WHO must be permitted to vote is in Texas statute. I see TCP 209 cited a lot, but it might matter if you're a condo association or detached homes?
Meanwhile we've seen many disgusting boards that want to stay on the board do many things to sabotage elections. But the stunt your prez is trying to pull is a new one to me!! You & those campaigning to replace some board members need to urge all-owners to become current on their dues.
Read everything you can about how elections must be conducted per your Bylaws and state statutes and nag the board to follow the statutes or your Bylaws.
How many detached homes or condo unit are indoor HOA? When's your election?
MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Wow! Thank you so much for that valuable information.
Our condominium is 400 units with less than 20% being owner occupied. The remainder are vacation rental or family vacation units.
Our annual meeting is 1/27/24.
Our condominium is 400 units with less than 20% being owner occupied. The remainder are vacation rental or family vacation units.
Our annual meeting is 1/27/24.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarianneG2 on 01/20/2024 5:49 AM
MelissaP Thank you so much for your reply.
Would like to understand how other associations distinguish between late and delinquent.
An HOA increase was officially announced 12/13/23. Allowing for the 30 day notice, the charge of 20% increase was added to all accounts 1/13/24.
It appears, in order to play with the quorum counts for our upcoming Annual Homeownerâs meeting 1/27/24, the HOA Board is telling owners at 1 week past due for this charge, they are âdelinquentâ, and will not be counted to make quorum.
As an aside, we have not âmade quorumâ for Annual Homeownerâs meeting for the last 3 years. Consequently we have not held our annual in that time. Many owners are deeply concerned about financial misappropriation by the board president, and believe he was involved in disqualifying legitimate votes/proxies in previous meetings in order to remain in his position.
Iâm sorry if this is TMI, too much infomation, but many owners are determined to reach quorum for this upcoming meeting, so we can elect a new board. And we are concerned current president is using any means possible to once again not make quorum, ie deeming a late payment delinquent to disqualify those owners votes
Melissa, any thoughts or info from your own experience would be deeply appreciated.
And would be extremely grateful to hear from any other members of this page. âşď¸
Thanks
Marianne G
MelissaP Thank you so much for your reply.
Would like to understand how other associations distinguish between late and delinquent.
An HOA increase was officially announced 12/13/23. Allowing for the 30 day notice, the charge of 20% increase was added to all accounts 1/13/24.
It appears, in order to play with the quorum counts for our upcoming Annual Homeownerâs meeting 1/27/24, the HOA Board is telling owners at 1 week past due for this charge, they are âdelinquentâ, and will not be counted to make quorum.
As an aside, we have not âmade quorumâ for Annual Homeownerâs meeting for the last 3 years. Consequently we have not held our annual in that time. Many owners are deeply concerned about financial misappropriation by the board president, and believe he was involved in disqualifying legitimate votes/proxies in previous meetings in order to remain in his position.
Iâm sorry if this is TMI, too much infomation, but many owners are determined to reach quorum for this upcoming meeting, so we can elect a new board. And we are concerned current president is using any means possible to once again not make quorum, ie deeming a late payment delinquent to disqualify those owners votes
Melissa, any thoughts or info from your own experience would be deeply appreciated.
And would be extremely grateful to hear from any other members of this page. âşď¸
Thanks
Marianne G
Delinquent means failing in or neglectful of a duty or obligation; guilty of a misdeed or offense.
(of an account, tax, debt, etc.) past due; overdue.
It makes no difference if payment is late 8 days or 8 months, the member owing money is delinquent.
MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thank you so much for your input.
I will add your info to the other definitions for the term that Iâm gathering.
For future reference, if you expand beyond a regular dictionary, and into glossary of legal financial terms,
the definition expands considerably.
This is why I choose to read study and get as broad perspective as possible.
I am a true believer in the idiom, âGod is in the detailsâ
Thank you again for your input.
I will add your info to the other definitions for the term that Iâm gathering.
For future reference, if you expand beyond a regular dictionary, and into glossary of legal financial terms,
the definition expands considerably.
This is why I choose to read study and get as broad perspective as possible.
I am a true believer in the idiom, âGod is in the detailsâ
Thank you again for your input.
MarianneG2 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thank you so much for your input.
I will add your info to the other definitions for the term that Iâm gathering.
For future reference, if you expand beyond a regular dictionary, and into glossary of legal financial terms,
the definition expands considerably.
This is why I choose to read study and get as broad perspective as possible.
I am a true believer in the idiom, âGod is in the detailsâ
Thank you again for your input.
I will add your info to the other definitions for the term that Iâm gathering.
For future reference, if you expand beyond a regular dictionary, and into glossary of legal financial terms,
the definition expands considerably.
This is why I choose to read study and get as broad perspective as possible.
I am a true believer in the idiom, âGod is in the detailsâ
Thank you again for your input.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
If your HOA doesn't have a policy, it's time to look into making one. We have a collections policy of 6 months behind we lien. 1 year behind we CONSIDER foreclosure. (That is another bag...) Everyone knows that if you are delinquent in dues, we will pursue these actions. If your just late on your monthly payment, then we add the $20 late fee. We don't know how often your dues are due to create a delinquency schedule. It would work slightly different if it's months or 1 year payments.
One of the things I would consider is how much it cost for a return check fee. My opinion a late fee should be in the area of how much a returned check charge is at any bank. It would be similar to writing a bad check if you don't write one at all or one without the funds. That would be my jumping off point.
One of the things I would consider is how much it cost for a return check fee. My opinion a late fee should be in the area of how much a returned check charge is at any bank. It would be similar to writing a bad check if you don't write one at all or one without the funds. That would be my jumping off point.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
We have added payments that are not received by mm/dd are considered late and subject to additional charges.
It is important to have this clarified. Otherwise, an argument can be made that if the item was postmarked on that day, timely payment was made.
With the post office sometimes taking a week or more to deliver a first class letter, this can get into a gray area quickly.
It is important to have this clarified. Otherwise, an argument can be made that if the item was postmarked on that day, timely payment was made.
With the post office sometimes taking a week or more to deliver a first class letter, this can get into a gray area quickly.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yikes, Marianne, 1/27? Next Saturday? It's going to be hard to get much done in such a short time, Im sorry to say.
How ARE votes counted? Who counts them? It is in reality like more difficult to get absent or part-time owner occupants to vote, so I hope your group has been campaigning hard. How must all of these absent owners vote? Do you need their proxies?
Try to learn as much as humanly possible so that y'all can determine if the election was conducted per your Bylaws and Texas statutes.
How ARE votes counted? Who counts them? It is in reality like more difficult to get absent or part-time owner occupants to vote, so I hope your group has been campaigning hard. How must all of these absent owners vote? Do you need their proxies?
Try to learn as much as humanly possible so that y'all can determine if the election was conducted per your Bylaws and Texas statutes.
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