Resident's Drone Flies Past my Window?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our HOA is twin tower 25 story condo units. I'm on the 17th floor and my desk is very close to a west window -- in a wall of windows--in my primary bedroom (on the NW corner of my bldg.) Last evening at about 6p, a drone flashing red & blue lights flew about 15 feet away from this window. I was startled, went to the window, took a look around, and noticed a man on the 18th floor balcony (SE corner of the bldg.) of the other tower, about 50 feet away from my window. The drone came past my window two additional times.

At that moment, I happened to be in an email conversation with a board member, who'd just informed me that the "Quiet Zone" for trains that go past our complex about 100 yards away had been suspended by the feds for "safety reasons," so the trains must blow their horns at every crossing. We hear them at about 4 crossings. Ugh.

Since that director is a retired fire dept. chief, I thought he might know something about drones, local or FAA regs, etc, so reported the drone I was seeing at that time to him. Haven't heard back from him.

Has your HOA had any such incidences? does your HOA have any rules about this topic?

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/19/2024 11:29 AM
We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

A bit Draconian.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/19/2024 11:29 AM
We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

A bit Draconian.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Kerry,

Do an internet search on drones HOAs and CA. I saw plenty of links with good info.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

The sad part is as new as drones are, some states crafted laws that protect drone operators even if they are using them
nefariously for voyeuristic reasons. i.e. you can't shoot them down, interfere with their flight, or use a butterfly net
to capture them.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/19/2024 11:29 AM
We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

That restriction exceeds the authority of the HOA.

1. 934.50(2)(a), Freedom from Unwarranted Surveillance Act.”, is a regulation about drones owned by the state and local govt.

2. An HOA only has jurisdiction to enforce rules against their members.

3. The FAA regulates airspace and the use of aircraft (drones). Your HOA does not have authority to prohibit any aircraft from being operated over any portion of the property - commercial or non commercial.

4. The HOA may restrict drones landing and taking off in the community. If Amazon wants to fly a drone in and drop a package, the HOA has no authority under current law to stop it.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

I'm not even sure why that language is in the documents. We rewrote the documents three years ago and it was in the template we received from our HOA attorney. Some things were changed to be specific for our HOA, clearly this was not. All the documents make it clear that the rules are inferior to state and federal regulations if there's a conflict.

I just posted this as an example of what rules can be in an HOA document. We have never had one complaint about drones, but we're prepared if we do. If we were to send a violation based on our documents and the person with the drone fought back with their interpretation of a state or federal regulation, then we would take that into consideration. There are protections in our documents (and guaranteed by Florida statute) that allow for appeals of violations.

HOA documents and rules are outdated the day they adopted since the law changes constantly. It's like playing a game of "whack a mole". You try and prepare the best you can and anticipate issues, but something new always pops up.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Thanks, Tim. I think my questions are pretty specific. I only am interested in this forum's posters' experiences for now.

IF a drone becomes an issue, i.e, the person in the other tower sends the drone around our towers more often, and certainly if it hovers at windows, I'll report it to our PM with pics and the Board can take it up or not. IF the latter happens, there's no question that they'd consult with the right experts about wording of a proposed rule.

For now, there's been only one incident that I know of and the director I reported to has forwarded my email to the PM & board president. I, personally, am never someone who gets all exercised about one incident that could violate our CC&R's nuisance clause. So as far as I know, the "pilot" was a guest or even a realtor taking pics of our pool area, etc. We also now have a really excellent new 1.6 acre open space/unique playgound/dog run/picnic area/adult exercise equipment park across the side street street from one of our block-long frontages. The drone pilot may have wanted to take pics of it, and to do it, the drone would need to fly past my window.

Dean, of course, we may restrict drones from taking off or landing anywhere on our premises. And, of course, enforcement would be against the owner of the condo, not their tenants or guests etc. That's how HOAs work.

I really appreciate Lori's reply since it responds to my questions. I'll save her HOA's rule as I think it's very close to what our board and owners would want if we need it. Thank you, Lori;I think your board was very wise to k make this rule, just in case...

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 01/20/2024 7:39 PM

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/19/2024 11:29 AM
We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

That restriction exceeds the authority of the HOA.

1. 934.50(2)(a), Freedom from Unwarranted Surveillance Act.”, is a regulation about drones owned by the state and local govt.

2. An HOA only has jurisdiction to enforce rules against their members.

3. The FAA regulates airspace and the use of aircraft (drones). Your HOA does not have authority to prohibit any aircraft from being operated over any portion of the property - commercial or non commercial.

4. The HOA may restrict drones landing and taking off in the community. If Amazon wants to fly a drone in and drop a package, the HOA has no authority under current law to stop it.

Have you had this vetted by an attorney? Our association attorney recommended years ago that the board enact a drone policy regulating operation of these things on HOA property. HOAs are allowed to be more restrictive as long as the restriction doesn't violate the law (eg., they must allow installation of satellite dishes but may regulate size and placement).

Enforcing the policy against entities such as Amazon is a different problem.

The only drones I've seen in my community are ones operated by a realtor who's videoing a listed property. Someone like that is legitimately an invitee. So is Amazon or any other entity that a resident has ordered things from. Random people buzzing the community are not invitees and may be considered to be trespassing.

Is It Legal To Fly Drones In HOA Communities?

Quote:

Drones also pose a liability risk to homeowners associations. If a drone accidentally injures a resident or destroys property, the victim can claim negligence and take legal action against the association.

A good way to protect your association from such claims is to practice proper drone regulation in an HOA community. The same goes for when the association itself uses drones for official HOA business.

Associations must also obtain sufficient insurance coverage to safeguard themselves from drone liability. Ask your insurance provider about any policies that cover any resulting damages from drones. Make sure to include premise liability as well.

The article also has a section that talks about creating a drone policy.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Thanks Cathy for som fine insights.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 01/21/2024 10:22 AM

Posted By DeanJ on 01/20/2024 7:39 PM

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/19/2024 11:29 AM
We added a restriction on drones in our last document update. I don't know if California has rules regarding whether or not you can restrict drones.

8.20 Drones. Drones, as defined by Section 934.50(2)(a), Florida Statutes (2020), as amended from time to time, and other remotely controlled flying devices (collectively “Drones”) are prohibited from being operated over, on or in any portion of the Community, including, but not limited to, the Common Areas and Parcels, except that properly licensed Drones used lawfully by outside parties for commercial purposes may be operated within the Community, with prior approval of the Board. The Board may adopt additional Rules regulating the use of commercial drones including requirements regarding insurance and an indemnity undertaking by users or operators of commercial Drones. Drones used for recreational purposes and Drones which are not properly licensed and lawfully used for commercial purposes in accordance with this provision and Rules of the Board, if any, are prohibited in the Community.

That restriction exceeds the authority of the HOA.

1. 934.50(2)(a), Freedom from Unwarranted Surveillance Act.”, is a regulation about drones owned by the state and local govt.

2. An HOA only has jurisdiction to enforce rules against their members.

3. The FAA regulates airspace and the use of aircraft (drones). Your HOA does not have authority to prohibit any aircraft from being operated over any portion of the property - commercial or non commercial.

4. The HOA may restrict drones landing and taking off in the community. If Amazon wants to fly a drone in and drop a package, the HOA has no authority under current law to stop it.

Have you had this vetted by an attorney? Our association attorney recommended years ago that the board enact a drone policy regulating operation of these things on HOA property. HOAs are allowed to be more restrictive as long as the restriction doesn't violate the law (eg., they must allow installation of satellite dishes but may regulate size and placement).

Enforcing the policy against entities such as Amazon is a different problem.

The only drones I've seen in my community are ones operated by a realtor who's videoing a listed property. Someone like that is legitimately an invitee. So is Amazon or any other entity that a resident has ordered things from. Random people buzzing the community are not invitees and may be considered to be trespassing.

Is It Legal To Fly Drones In HOA Communities?

Quote:

Drones also pose a liability risk to homeowners associations. If a drone accidentally injures a resident or destroys property, the victim can claim negligence and take legal action against the association.

A good way to protect your association from such claims is to practice proper drone regulation in an HOA community. The same goes for when the association itself uses drones for official HOA business.

Associations must also obtain sufficient insurance coverage to safeguard themselves from drone liability. Ask your insurance provider about any policies that cover any resulting damages from drones. Make sure to include premise liability as well.

The article also has a section that talks about creating a drone policy.

Call your local FAA Flight Standards District office and ask them - it’s free. There are many, and I mean many, local governments who are trying to regulate over flight by drones and other aircraft. All have failed in court where the FAA will aggressively defend their authority in this matter. Drone operators have FAA pilot certificates and are regulated by Federal regulations.

Airspace cannot be regulated by state, local governments or private land owners, except the landing and takeoff locations or by obtaining a restriction from the FAA.

That means your HOA can regulate homeowners and other persons from operating drones from the surface of your HOA. The HOA may not try to regulate any over flight, may not require any insurance, require permission ect. Any attorney who is advising you otherwise is misinformed.

Here a link to help. https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/community_engagement/no_drone_zone#:~:text=Only%20the%20FAA%20can%20restrict,to%20take%20off%20and%20land.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

sample drone policy I got online:

Sample Drone Rule

Use of any remote-controlled devices (including “toy” helicopters, planes or other such
devices), video recording devices (including, but not limited to video cameras), drones
or other unmanned aircraft (collectively, “Drones”) by private parties is subject to all licensing and
approval requirements of applicable state and
federal
governments, as well

as applicable
governmental and/or
quasi-governmental
agencies.
Drones may not be used for recreational purposes on Common Elements or to conduct
surveillance or observation of a third party on Association Common Elements or property owned or occupied
by someone other than the
party conducting the
surveillance/
observation without said third
party’s knowledge and consent. Use of Drones to
invade

the
privacy of a third
party’s home or
property (including, but not limited
to, recording
of activities within a home or property) is prohibited.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, use of Drones for the following limited purposes is permitted: (i)
evaluating damage
by insurers or their agents or (ii) aerial
photography of a

home
by a licensed real estate agent or
broker, or said real estate
professional’s agent,

in conjunction with the
marketing and sale of a home in the _____
community. Use of

Drones to monitor Common Elements or
activity thereon is prohibited without the prior

express written authorization of the
Association.

vis ta vie

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 01/21/2024 11:53 AM
sample drone policy I got online:

Sample Drone Rule

Use of any remote-controlled devices (including “toy” helicopters, planes or other such
devices), video recording devices (including, but not limited to video cameras), drones
or other unmanned aircraft (collectively, “Drones”) by private parties is subject to all licensing and
approval requirements of applicable state and
federal
governments, as well

as applicable
governmental and/or
quasi-governmental
agencies.
Drones may not be used for recreational purposes on Common Elements or to conduct
surveillance or observation of a third party on Association Common Elements or property owned or occupied
by someone other than the
party conducting the
surveillance/
observation without said third
party’s knowledge and consent. Use of Drones to
invade

the
privacy of a third
party’s home or
property (including, but not limited
to, recording
of activities within a home or property) is prohibited.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, use of Drones for the following limited purposes is permitted: (i)
evaluating damage
by insurers or their agents or (ii) aerial
photography of a

home
by a licensed real estate agent or
broker, or said real estate
professional’s agent,

in conjunction with the
marketing and sale of a home in the _____
community. Use of

Drones to monitor Common Elements or
activity thereon is prohibited without the prior

express written authorization of the
Association.

Another mostly worthless rule.

1. State agencies or quasi government agencies cannot license or approve drones. That is reserved to the FAA.
2. An HOA is without authority to regulate drones over their property.
3. HOAs may only enact rules and penalties that apply to HOA members.
4. An HOA may prohibit any non home owner from entering the property, but not flying something over the property.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2024 10:51 AM
Our HOA is twin tower 25 story condo units. I'm on the 17th floor and my desk is very close to a west window -- in a wall of windows--in my primary bedroom (on the NW corner of my bldg.) Last evening at about 6p, a drone flashing red & blue lights flew about 15 feet away from this window. I was startled, went to the window, took a look around, and noticed a man on the 18th floor balcony (SE corner of the bldg.) of the other tower, about 50 feet away from my window. The drone came past my window two additional times.

At that moment, I happened to be in an email conversation with a board member, who'd just informed me that the "Quiet Zone" for trains that go past our complex about 100 yards away had been suspended by the feds for "safety reasons," so the trains must blow their horns at every crossing. We hear them at about 4 crossings. Ugh.

Since that director is a retired fire dept. chief, I thought he might know something about drones, local or FAA regs, etc, so reported the drone I was seeing at that time to him. Haven't heard back from him.

Has your HOA had any such incidences? does your HOA have any rules about this topic?

A misdemeanor. CA Penal Code Sec 647(j). $1,000. fine and 6 months jail for first offense.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Unmanned aircraft system. Report to police.

j) (1) A person who looks through a hole or opening, into, or otherwise views, by means of any instrumentality, including, but not limited to, a periscope, telescope, binoculars, camera, motion picture camera, camcorder, mobile phone, electronic device, or unmanned aircraft system, the interior of a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, fitting room, dressing room, or tanning booth, or the interior of any other area in which the occupant has a reasonable expectation of privacy, with the intent to invade the privacy of a person or persons inside. This subdivision does not apply to those areas of a private business used to count currency or other negotiable instruments.