DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
I understand that a POA board member can not serve on the ACC committee. Does the POA board have final approval for request? IF they do have final say then what is the purpose of the ACC?
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POA?ACC
Started by DebB6 • 20 replies • 434 views
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LisaB21 (Texas)
Posts: 97
Posts: 97
Posted:
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process. The Board only becomes involved if the homeowner appeals the ACC decision and then a hearing is set up with the Board.
DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you so much for this information. Can you tell me where to find the legal document to support this information? I will need it in writing to present to the board.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I will repost what I posted in a duplicate of the thread.
Some Associations have an Architectural Control Committee (ACC aka ARB) to simply do the research and advise the board.
Some Associations have an ACC that has the authority to make the decision and the Board is there when an owner want's to appeal the ACC decision to a higher authority.
What authority your Association gives the ACC may be in the CC&Rs, the Bylaws, a written Resolution or simply doesn't exist in writing.
If it doesn't exist in writing, unfortunately, each board can make that decision on their own.
In my area, we were advised that if the ACC is not mentioned in the CC&Rs as the approving authority, then they may only review as the final decision would be with the Board.
Some Associations have an Architectural Control Committee (ACC aka ARB) to simply do the research and advise the board.
Some Associations have an ACC that has the authority to make the decision and the Board is there when an owner want's to appeal the ACC decision to a higher authority.
What authority your Association gives the ACC may be in the CC&Rs, the Bylaws, a written Resolution or simply doesn't exist in writing.
If it doesn't exist in writing, unfortunately, each board can make that decision on their own.
In my area, we were advised that if the ACC is not mentioned in the CC&Rs as the approving authority, then they may only review as the final decision would be with the Board.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DebB6 on 01/16/2024 10:21 AM
Thank you so much for this information. Can you tell me where to find the legal document to support this information? I will need it in writing to present to the board.
Thank you so much for this information. Can you tell me where to find the legal document to support this information? I will need it in writing to present to the board.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm#209.00505
See section 209.00505 if it doesn't automatically do that. It appears to only apply to associations of 40 or more members.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 01/16/2024 11:22 AM
Posted By DebB6 on 01/16/2024 10:21 AM
Thank you so much for this information. Can you tell me where to find the legal document to support this information? I will need it in writing to present to the board.
Thank you so much for this information. Can you tell me where to find the legal document to support this information? I will need it in writing to present to the board.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm#209.00505
See section 209.00505 if it doesn't automatically do that. It appears to only apply to associations of 40 or more members.
Nice work.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LisaB21 on 01/16/2024 9:53 AM
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process.
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process.
I agree that, per TPC 209, directors may not serve on the ACC.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LisaB21 on 01/16/2024 9:53 AM
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process. The Board only becomes involved if the homeowner appeals the ACC decision and then a hearing is set up with the Board.
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process. The Board only becomes involved if the homeowner appeals the ACC decision and then a hearing is set up with the Board.
I agree that, per TPC 209, directors may not serve on the ACC.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/16/2024 4:24 PM
I disagree with this interpretation of TPC 209.00505. By my reading, and as an example, let's say the ACC approved something the ACC should not have, the board has the right (and also the duty AFAIC) to override the ACC and dis-approve the application. Posted By LisaB21 on 01/16/2024 9:53 AM
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process. The Board only becomes involved if the homeowner appeals the ACC decision and then a hearing is set up with the Board.
In Texas, due to changes at the State Legislature last year, the Board can not be involved in ACC decisions at all. They do not have any decision making power during the application and approval process. The Board only becomes involved if the homeowner appeals the ACC decision and then a hearing is set up with the Board.
I agree that, per TPC 209, directors may not serve on the ACC.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We talk about "rogue BOD's". What about a "rogue ACC" with the authority to approve changes that fly in the face of the Covenants? A BOD is elected to "rule", not a committee. Our attorney recommended we do not have an ACC and the BOD handle things. I realize in a large/complex association a committee can help but I do not like them having the final say. If they approve an improper change what is the homeowner to do if eventually called out about it?
DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
once again i am in need of understanding ...the separation of duties.
We have an elected board and a volunteer ACC committee. We also have a newly elected board member who want to micro manage the ACC. All applications must meet with his approval. So what is the point of the ACC?
Just trying understand the ruling and also the purpose of the ACC committee.
We have an elected board and a volunteer ACC committee. We also have a newly elected board member who want to micro manage the ACC. All applications must meet with his approval. So what is the point of the ACC?
Just trying understand the ruling and also the purpose of the ACC committee.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Deb, you're saying that the board VOTED that this director review and approve all ACC Applications? If so, this will be in Board meeting minutes. If the Board did not vote to appoint him to do that work, he has no authority to approve or deny ACC applications.
Does the ACC charter give it the right to approve applications? If not, how is it that they have that authority? Is it in the CC&Rs (as in my HOA)?
Does the ACC charter give it the right to approve applications? If not, how is it that they have that authority? Is it in the CC&Rs (as in my HOA)?
DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
thanks for the reply. Yes the board did vote to give him approval over all ACC applications. What I am really trying to understand is the purpose of the ACC. Why was the law passed that the two must be separate? It is very clear on that. It seems to me if the board still has approval or denial power that really negates the ACC.
DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
thanks for the reply. Yes the board did vote to give him approval over all ACC applications. What I am really trying to understand is the purpose of the ACC. Why was the law passed that the two must be separate? It is very clear on that. It seems to me if the board still has approval or denial power that really negates the ACC.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DebB6 on 01/25/2024 12:22 PM
It seems to me if the board still has approval or denial power that really negates the ACC.
It seems to me if the board still has approval or denial power that really negates the ACC.
Should we still have trial courts and courts of appeals when the various state supreme courts or the U. S. Supreme Court can override the lower courts?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In some states, I think Minn. is one. The Board only has the authority to approve and deny ACC proposals. I think the ACC still recommends to the Board. Presumably if the Board never likes the ARC's recs, they would vote to disband the Committee. Michael of MN can correct me if I'm wrong.
In CA, the ARC can approve applications on its own. If they deny owners' apps, the ARC must give reasons . If owners can overcome the reasons for denial, e.g., incomplete app; requesting improper materials, etc. they can resubmit to the ARC. If still denied, Owners can resubmit to the Board.
In CA, the ARC can approve applications on its own. If they deny owners' apps, the ARC must give reasons . If owners can overcome the reasons for denial, e.g., incomplete app; requesting improper materials, etc. they can resubmit to the ARC. If still denied, Owners can resubmit to the Board.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/25/2024 12:47 PM
In CA, the ARC can approve applications on its own.
In CA, the ARC can approve applications on its own.
DebB6 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
thanks for all your insight. I understand now even thou it seems we are duplicating our efforts.
Great job members it was very helpful
Great job members it was very helpful
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm unable to say if other CA HOA's ARCs violate the covenants, but our ARC Guidelines, which in CA are governing documents and "rules," comply completely with our CC&Rs. Our HOA Board does not review any ARC apps or approvals.
Our ARCs have twice over many years kicked ARC apps up to the Board when some structural changes were requested that seemed to require consulting with builiding engineering experts. (We're multi-story condos). Th Boards ore dead expert rice and, per our ARC guidelines & CC&Rs, owners paid for their services.
Our ARCs have twice over many years kicked ARC apps up to the Board when some structural changes were requested that seemed to require consulting with builiding engineering experts. (We're multi-story condos). Th Boards ore dead expert rice and, per our ARC guidelines & CC&Rs, owners paid for their services.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm unable to say if other CA HOA's ARCs violate the covenants, but our ARC Guidelines, which in CA are governing documents and "rules," comply completely with our CC&Rs. Our HOA Board does not review any ARC apps or approvals. If that were required for Board service, no one would want to serve on the Board.
Our ARCs have twice over many years kicked ARC apps up to the Board when some structural changes were requested that seemed to require consulting with builiding engineering experts. (We're multi-story condos). The Boards ordered expert advice and, per our ARC guidelines & CC&Rs, owners paid for their services.
Our ARCs have twice over many years kicked ARC apps up to the Board when some structural changes were requested that seemed to require consulting with builiding engineering experts. (We're multi-story condos). The Boards ordered expert advice and, per our ARC guidelines & CC&Rs, owners paid for their services.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posts: 859
Posted:
I do not understand how a law or governing documents are written to allow non-elected residents to make final decisions. The Board of Directors were elected to manage the association with the assistance of committees.
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