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WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I'm working on making suggested changes to our bylaws.
Does anyone have sample bylaws that require an HOA have a website with downloadable meeting minutes, financials, and governing documents? NC law does not require this, but given it's 2024, I figgure we need to modernize the bylaws.

Might even include a clause that if board does not have these documents posted by 30 days before annual meeting then their seat automatically becomes open and people can run against them. Unlikely, but at least it gives residents an option to oppose a board that isn't transparent with records instead of waiting 2 years for their term to be over.

I'm guessing there are very few bylaws that require a website?

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
The big 3 states' statutes do not require a web site unless the board makes certain choices on certain topics.

But so far, I do not see a problem with a bylaw that requires the HOA to put certain information on a web site and within a certain timeframe.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/14/2024 12:12 PM
Might even include a clause that if board does not have these documents posted by 30 days before annual meeting then their seat automatically becomes open and people can run against them.
North Carolina statute section 55A-8-08 prohibits such a removal.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I haven't seen any, but if a state has HOA laws that require certain information be made available to homeowners upon request, I would hope a smart HOA board would realize it's faster to post this stuff on a website instead of wading through printing and postage costs to mail it. However, snail mail should remain an option (even if stamps went up again) because there are still a lot of people who either don't have internet access or have trouble getting information. After all, illiteracy is a huge problem.

As for the clause putting a board seat open because the documents aren't posted 30 days before the annual meeting, I think that's excessive. There could be other reasons for the delay which may not be the fault of the other board members. This sort of thing could lead to a community having trouble getting anyone to run for the board, which is already a problem in many communities. I can see people adding all sorts of clauses that make no sense at all. You might get rid of the person who was late with posting the documents, but what happens if you wind up with a bunch of folks who have no clue how to run an HOA effectively and no interest in finding out how?

Homeowners need to do their job and hold board members accountable, but that also means being able to separate trivial from major issues. For example, I have a bigger issue with boards that don't do necessary maintenance because homeowners squawk at higher assessments, only for everyone to wind up paying a special assessment because the roofs are all caving in. No one likes higher assessments, but homeownership isn't and never has been cheap, which is why grown people learn to budget, save their money and perhaps take care of the property so it doesn't fall apart within a year or less.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Websites cost some money (can be minimized by shopping around).
Websites also requires someone to maintain it.

When individuals want to use software, the advice on this site is that the people who serve after you may or may not have the knowledge or desire to learn the software used. Keep it simple.

For example: My previous association started a website (a board members teenager set it up). When I was elected to the board I spent a good 20 hours learning websites and how to improve on what we had. When I left, the person who took over as website admin couldn't figure out how it works and they never updated it. They finally went with a site semi-managed by others for a greater cost then what we were spending.

I think websites are great.
I don't think requiring a website is great.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
FS 718.111(12)(g) does require that some condo associations maintain a website with certain information. I posted the 2023 version here.

By January 1, 2019, an association managing a condominium with 150 or more units which does not contain timeshare units shall post digital copies of the documents specified in subparagraph 2. on its website or make such documents available through an application that can be downloaded on a mobile device. It's pretty specific about what needs to be there.

This does not apply to smaller condo associations and there is nothing like it in FS 720 or HOAs.

a. The association’s website or application must be:
(I) An independent website, application, or web portal wholly owned and operated by the association; or
(II) A website, application, or web portal operated by a third-party provider with whom the association owns, leases, rents, or otherwise obtains the right to operate a web page, subpage, web portal, collection of subpages or web portals, or an application which is dedicated to the association’s activities and on which required notices, records, and documents may be posted or made available by the association.
b. The association’s website or application must be accessible through the Internet and must contain a subpage, web portal, or other protected electronic location that is inaccessible to the general public and accessible only to unit owners and employees of the association.
c. Upon a unit owner’s written request, the association must provide the unit owner with a username and password and access to the protected sections of the association’s website or application which contain any notices, records, or documents that must be electronically provided.
2. A current copy of the following documents must be posted in digital format on the association’s website or application:
a. The recorded declaration of condominium of each condominium operated by the association and each amendment to each declaration.
b. The recorded bylaws of the association and each amendment to the bylaws.
c. The articles of incorporation of the association, or other documents creating the association, and each amendment to the articles of incorporation or other documents. The copy posted pursuant to this sub-subparagraph must be a copy of the articles of incorporation filed with the Department of State.
d. The rules of the association.
e. A list of all executory contracts or documents to which the association is a party or under which the association or the unit owners have an obligation or responsibility and, after bidding for the related materials, equipment, or services has closed, a list of bids received by the association within the past year. Summaries of bids for materials, equipment, or services which exceed $500 must be maintained on the website or application for 1 year. In lieu of summaries, complete copies of the bids may be posted.
f. The annual budget required by s. 718.112(2)(f) and any proposed budget to be considered at the annual meeting.
g. The financial report required by subsection (13) and any monthly income or expense statement to be considered at a meeting.
h. The certification of each director required by s. 718.112(2)(d)4.b.
i. All contracts or transactions between the association and any director, officer, corporation, firm, or association that is not an affiliated condominium association or any other entity in which an association director is also a director or officer and financially interested.
j. Any contract or document regarding a conflict of interest or possible conflict of interest as provided in ss. 468.436(2)(b)6. and 718.3027(3).
k. The notice of any unit owner meeting and the agenda for the meeting, as required by s. 718.112(2)(d)3., no later than 14 days before the meeting. The notice must be posted in plain view on the front page of the website or application, or on a separate subpage of the website or application labeled “Notices” which is conspicuously visible and linked from the front page. The association must also post on its website or application any document to be considered and voted on by the owners during the meeting or any document listed on the agenda at least 7 days before the meeting at which the document or the information within the document will be considered.
l. Notice of any board meeting, the agenda, and any other document required for the meeting as required by s. 718.112(2)(c), which must be posted no later than the date required for notice under s. 718.112(2)(c).
m. The inspection reports described in ss. 553.899 and 718.301(4)(p) and any other inspection report relating to a structural or life safety inspection of condominium property.
n. The association’s most recent structural integrity reserve study, if applicable.
JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/14/2024 1:03 PM
The big 3 states' statutes do not require a web site unless the board makes certain choices on certain topics.

But so far, I do not see a problem with a bylaw that requires the HOA to put certain information on a web site and within a certain timeframe.

Posted By WendyM5 on 01/14/2024 12:12 PM
Might even include a clause that if board does not have these documents posted by 30 days before annual meeting then their seat automatically becomes open and people can run against them.
North Carolina statute section 55A-8-08 prohibits such a removal.

55a-8-08 deals with removal of board members. I am proposing their terms change if they do not fulfill their duties. If no one runs against them they could theoretically not update the website and still continue serving.
however if an owner sees they are not doing their job, they could run against them and only if they win, then they could replace them.
this is not removal this is more like:
"primarying," a challenge to an incumbent on the grounds that he or she is not doing their job.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackS20 on 01/14/2024 6:31 PM
55a-8-08 deals with removal of board members. I am proposing their terms change if they do not fulfill their duties.
Let me count the ways such reasoning could be employed to unlawfully get around numerous statutory requirements.

Amiga (amigo?), put the requirement in the bylaws, sans the fourth grade attempt to throw out 55A-8-08. Then the recourse all owners have is either (1) vote the bum(s) out at the next election; (2) remove the bum(s) in a properly completed recall; or (3) file suit to enforce the bylaw.

Next up:

The board does not complete the annual budget by ____. Hence regardless of how long each director's term is, he/she is automatically removed on the following day.

The board does not fill a vacancy. Hence they are all removed the day after the vacancy occurs.

Simon Legree. Lex Luther. The Road Runner. Any of these would be a more effective villain than you.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
probably easier to just reduce board terms to 1 year instead of 3 years so it is easier to run against bad board members.

vis ta vie
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/14/2024 12:12 PM
I'm working on making suggested changes to our bylaws.
Does anyone have sample bylaws that require an HOA have a website with downloadable meeting minutes, financials, and governing documents? NC law does not require this, but given it's 2024, I figgure we need to modernize the bylaws.

Might even include a clause that if board does not have these documents posted by 30 days before annual meeting then their seat automatically becomes open and people can run against them. Unlikely, but at least it gives residents an option to oppose a board that isn't transparent with records instead of waiting 2 years for their term to be over.

I'm guessing there are very few bylaws that require a website?

You should be getting online services as part of your management agreement. A good management company and Board wants to reduce their work. The need to email or send documents to homeowners isn’t efficient,

Minimally your management company should already be providing access to a community page on their website with password protected documents available to the homeowners.

Ideally your management company should be providing a portal on its website for each homeowner to view/ download HOA documents, minutes, financials, design standards, improvement applications + review their account and make E payments.

If you are self managed, this becomes a budget item because a board member should not be expected to create, maintain or post items to a website.

As you work through the bylaws, please do not add more work for your Board. They are volunteers and you should be trying to make their job as easy as possible instead adding work and threatening them with removal.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Two year terms seem to b most typical, Wendy. Even though your HOA isn't very complicated with a bunch of amenities and maintenance components, it take a year to learn to be a directors, i.e, to understand ones' own HOA docs + relevant state statutes.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/15/2024 9:08 AM
probably easier to just reduce board terms to 1 year instead of 3 years so it is easier to run against bad board members.

The term limit isn't the problem- doing the job effectively is. Considering all the issues HOA boards have to address, its unrealistic to expect someone to figure all this out in a year. It might work if you don't have much in the way of common areas, but there's still the matter of rules enforcement, reserves, budgeting, etc., to consider. For most people it can take a year to even begin to understand what's going on in the community.

You may have run on, say, "keeping assessments low," but then start to take a deep dive into the budget and find (to your amazement and horror), there's a lot more to this- and in some cases, you won't be able to hold the line on some items, but you won't be able to just drop them, because that will put the entire community at higher risk.

I seem to recall Florida has (or used to have) a law where HOAs could opt out of having reserves. Lori and the other Florida posters might clarify that, but as you can see from recent history, that wasn't a good idea - and that's before Surfside.

In one of your conversations, I recall saying you'd spoken to some of your neighbors and were stunned at how little they understood about the budget. You also mentioned how much apathy was in the community and how it was a challenge to get documents changed. I know you've put a lot of work in as a board member, but even you had a learning curve. Some catch on faster than others - if you have one year terms, how confident are you that your successors won't make an effort to read the documents, board meeting minutes, contracts, etc., to get a handle on community issues? Especially if they do the bare minimum as it is.

None of this is to say there aren't good people in your community- it's a matter of finding them and getting them involved. But if they come in cold, they will need time to learn. You also have to consider if anyone else will take up the mantle after they step down- and that's assuming they stick around to serve out the entire term.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/15/2024 9:08 AM
probably easier to just reduce board terms to 1 year instead of 3 years so it is easier to run against bad board members.

If I may ask, what is a bad board member?

Are they bad when they adopt and enforce the rules or does this make the good?

If a board member applies the advice of the association attorney over the advice of community, are they good or bad?

Are they good if they cut homeowners services to keep fees low or does that make them bad?

Is any board member that has to raise fees more than some in the community would like good or bad?

It is impossible to please everyone in a community and a board member is just one vote on the board. As a board member you have a responsibility to both the corporation and the homeowners. Terms are staggered to keep someone some experience in the board.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 01/15/2024 11:53 AM
As a board member you have a responsibility to both the corporation and the homeowners.
Where the stakes are high and per the law, the fiduciary duty is solely to the association and not the owners.

I agree with the other points you made, re "good" and "bad" board members.

Staggered terms are nice in theory. They appear to fail often in practice, per reports here.

Two-year terms deter people from running.

Mediocrity and ignorance can be the rule even for directors who have served many years. I would say those directors doing important things wrong (often making things up as they go along) for many years are the most dangerous.

On the other hand, I continue to maintain not-so-competent directors can often keep the HOA from burning down or going into receivership. This counts for a lot. The mediocre directors are the Captain Queegs of HOA Land, to be reviled to some extent but gosh yes, also to be appreciated (within reason).
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
term lengths have absolutely nothing to do with how long a board member must serve! They are volunteers they can quit whenever they want to. The whole mumbo jumbo about it taking more than a year to understand the HOA finances is just a lame excuse to justify not having frequent democratic elections.

Lets be clear reducing term lenghts wont' affect how long people serve in an apathetic neighborhood, it will only reduce the ability of people who want to serve to get elected on the board.

doens't matter what I think a bad board member is, that is determined by the neighborhood and forcing them to bad leadership for 2 years or more is not a good idea.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 01/15/2024 11:53 AM
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/15/2024 9:08 AM
Boards never follow the rules anyways. you are missing the point.


As you work through the bylaws, please do not add more work for your Board.

More work? Board members will do as little or as much work as they want. I can't control their work ethic. If they don't want to make a website and be transparent while others do, dont' you think the people that do want to do a better job should have a democratic chance to run agaisnt them and win a board seat. the current bylaws are stacked against any change to board membership.

One literally has to get 51 people to show up at a meeting just to meet quorum, just to have a vote. it's ridiculous how much power the board has and how easily they can stay entrenched if they want tooo.

vis ta vie
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/15/2024 12:16 PM
Posted By DeanJ on 01/15/2024 11:53 AM
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/15/2024 9:08 AM
Boards never follow the rules anyways. you are missing the point.


As you work through the bylaws, please do not add more work for your Board.


More work? Board members will do as little or as much work as they want. I can't control their work ethic. If they don't want to make a website and be transparent while others do, dont' you think the people that do want to do a better job should have a democratic chance to run agaisnt them and win a board seat. the current bylaws are stacked against any change to board membership.

One literally has to get 51 people to show up at a meeting just to meet quorum, just to have a vote. it's ridiculous how much power the board has and how easily they can stay entrenched if they want tooo.

Like running for any office, it’s a political process. Your situation makes it extremely easy to get elected. You know it is a struggle to get 51 to a meeting and a lot of people don’t go. All you need is 30 proxies and presto you have 31 votes at the annual meeting and only 20 people have to show up. In fact, you alone can determine the outcome of any vote at the meeting. Start knocking on some doors.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Every community is different, so we'll have to agree to disagree on a few things. As I said earlier, it can take at least a year to get a clue on how the association is run, depending on your skill set and how well the community is organized. It may be easy for you, but you can't assume that's the case for everyone.

You've seen plenty of conversations on this website from people who ask how this or that section of their documents should be interpreted. You've seen the size of some documents, including yours - you don't have to quote them chapter and verse, but you do need to read them to gave an understanding of where they might need changing.

To wit, you started this conversation by asking if there were examples of bylaws that mandate websites. No one knows everything and it's dangerous to think people will or won't think, feel or do something just because you think or feel differently.

I'm not sure why needing time to understand HOA financials is a lame excuse not to have frequent elections. How long do you think it should take, especially if you've never served on a HOA board? What if you're coming in following a rouge board and have to start by getting an audit to see just how sloppy they were? And how long do you think all this can be cleaned up, especially after you find the association barely has a pot to piss in, money-wise?

If the homeowners are as apathetic as you say - and you're correct that many are - you may find NO ONE wants the job because it's too much to handle. Then what?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want people taking a slap dash approach to association money because some of that is my money. I do expect oropke to come in eyes wide open and willing to ask questions as well as invest in some education so they'll know what best practices are and what could be adapted to their community.

Perhaps that's the question people should ask before they vote in these people for 1 or 2 years - or 6 months. Have you been on an HOA board before? If not, why are you interested in the job? What do you think is the biggest issue in our community right now and why? Give an example of an approach the community might take to address it? Why do YOU think there are only 20 people here at tonight's meet the candidates night? Or why we haven't made quorum for an annual meeting in three years?

There are many reasons some board members are awful, but there are ways to get them out without waiting 1 or 2 years, or 6 months. It starts with people paying attention and attending board meetings to see what these folks are talking about. I find it doesn't take long to see who's prepared, bored to tears, encourages everyone to state how thy feel about a certain issue or asks the same questions over and over because they're not listening.

It may be people had a bad day, but when it happens again and again, the other board members should call that person out (it can be done in executive sesdion). Often it becomes too much and the person will quit anyway - usually because they didn't think they would actually have to think and make big decisions. This can scare the hell out of people- that's why their lives are messed up.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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