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LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Hello again,

Our Board is in the process of revising/updating our bylaws and all documents. They are at least 20 plus years old. I am the Board Member who has taken on this responsibility.

We are nearing the end of the process, but still the voting etc. to be done. At this point I continue to hear from this one co-owner who, perhaps, represents others in his continual quest for an answer to this question:

WHY SHOULD I APPROVE THIS REVISION WHEN I SEE NO REAL THREAT TO ME AND RESENT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE HAVE PAID AN ATTORNEY TO HELP US IN THIS ENDEAVOR? I respond with the usual, because we want to avoid law suits which might occur with increasing risk to us with our outdated documents. Because laws have changed and we need to be up-to-date for many reasons including home value and sales potential. Because we want to make the legalese language clearer and add changes related to our communities electronic advances. And on I go....but THEN he says:

IF YOU CAN PROVIDE FOR ME EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE SUING THEIR HOA ASSOCIATION BECAUSE OF WHAT THEIR DOCUMENTS SAY, I WILL VOTE FOR IT.

So, my challenge to you all is: can any of you provide me with data supporting actual cases being brought against an Association, related to their documents?????

Thank you all so much! I appreciate your expertise and value your responses.

Lu

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'd tell him to do his own bloody research - Google can become his new best friend. If he doesn't want to do that, he can simply vote against the changes. You need a certain percentage of homeowners to approve it anyway, and I'm sure he's not going to be the deciding factor.

You've given very good reasons for revising the documents- in fact, I've always recommended people take a look every five-seven years to see what may need to be tweaked, dropped altogether or added. The first time you fo a wholesale revision, it can be expensive and take a lot of time, but you may find you won't need as many changes 5-7 years from now.

Thoughtful people don't wait until a threat is on top of them - instead they do a type of risk assessment and determine what's needed to reduce the risk. No, you'll never eliminate it compkete (that's how life works), but this can help you anticipate future problems and have a plan on how to address them.

Put another way, it's why we have insurance, save for retirement and visit the doctor once a year. Its also why we have new laws being enacted year after year. Is this guy really that addled?? Oh, well.

Look around this website and you'll see lots and lots of people suing their association because there were issues with trying to enforce things that were already invalid because of changes to state or federal law, or an argument ensued because the homeowner interpreted a section one way, the board another- and then the judge added his/her interpretation.

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate HOA lawsuits because ultimately that comes out of the pockets of all homeowners, including moi. I'd rather have documents that make sense, along with board members and homeowners who can read and understand and then comply. Use association onet fir maintaining the common areas and fund reserves so we can avoid special assessments.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
My advice is when he says, “WE think this is a waste of money” or any thing else WE, ask the people to please stand that have authorized him to represent them. “Would the homeowners who have authorized George to speak for you please stand up”.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Fine reply from the very experienced former board member, Shelia.I agree. Tell him to look it up. Dean nails it, too,I think. Unfortunately, Mich. is not required to have board meetings open to owners.

With all the work you're doing on your own, Lou, In all truth, I'd repeat one more time the several reasons for updating your Bylaws, Articles of Incorporation (if needed), and your covenants, conditions and restrictions, i.e., your declaration. You have the latter, right? One good reason is that lenders really prefer to see up to date CC&Rs.

Once you politely repeat the good reason reasons, which are available in online sources, as you seem to know, simply tell him, your communications with hm on this subject is over. The revisions, restatement, or amendments will benefit everyone in your association and ask him for his vote when the time comes. He is harassing you,Lou and you do not have to put up with it.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LouH1 on 01/06/2024 1:33 PM

IF YOU CAN PROVIDE FOR ME EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE SUING THEIR HOA ASSOCIATION BECAUSE OF WHAT THEIR DOCUMENTS SAY, I WILL VOTE FOR IT.
Tell him you are not an attorney and the board is acting on the advice of counsel. If he wants to find his "inner lawyer," tell him a friend suggested that he could maybe google as follows:

"condominium" "association" "bylaws" site:https://law.justia.com/cases/michigan/

When he returns with another, related question (and he will), post back.

I think I would just write off his vote as unobtainable.
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
You have been most helpful, SheilaH. I liked everything you said and may repeat much of it verbatum. Helped me immensely. Thanks so much!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We looked at revising our docs mainly to remove Declarant reference. Our attorney advised us it would cost about $4k and owners (2/3rds) would have to vote approve. We dropped the ideas and have learned to "read through" the Declarant gibberish.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think it's the wrong thinking about avoiding lawsuits why your updating the documents. That isn't what you do it for. What the purpose of the CCR's, Articles, and By-laws (Best to do all 3 at same time) is the CONDITIONS and RESPONSIBILITIES of what your HOA wants. It is to define voting rights. Basically does your HOA not like having "Rainbow" painted houses? Does it have a specific appearance and color scheme? This is where one defines what the "Vision" your HOA is to be.

It also allows to modify to updated technology. If one wants to put in solar and the documents say "No solar" then you vote to adapt allowing solar.

Yes, people do sue because of the lack of enforcement of the rules. That is very common. However, you don't write the rules to avoid being sued. That is going to happen whether or not it's written.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If you are the re-write is so divisive that one vote is of the concern - play the game if you wish.

However, keep in mind you playing the members game is zero guarantee on how they will actually vote.

EsperanzaE (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
While specific data on lawsuits against HOA associations due to outdated documents may be challenging to provide, legal cases often arise when governing documents are unclear or outdated. To strengthen your case, consider highlighting general instances of legal disputes within the realm of homeowners associations, emphasizing the importance of preventive measures to avoid potential litigation and associated costs.

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