Things are getting ugly now

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Time for an update on our ongoing drama on taking on our rogue board.
Eight residents met and I showed them. Our board of directors is hurting us by not following our own bylaws CCR and Texas state code. In 24 hours we were able to collect thirty signatures exceeding the 25% required to call for a special meeting. We have requested them to postpone the elections until election. Procedure can be followed properly. We have told them that we do not recognize the resolution that they passed in a secret meeting not allowing a part-time resident to even be on the ballot, we have requested amendments to our CCR, allowing members and board members to attend meetings by phone or computer at their own expense. If they are not able to attend physically, and finally, we have asked an amendment to be made in regards to conduct by board members and members to promote civility amongst neighbors.

Well today, the board is having a special meeting again with no notice, to discuss our, as they call it, "secret meeting"
In the meantime, we have had our pool floats that are stored at the pool vandalized. The hot tub heat has been turned off and today. The pool heat has been turned off. We cannot help but feel that this is directed at this moment. The only people that use the community pool and hot tub are those of us that are fighting for change.

Annual meeting is on the ninth, we have requested that they respond to us in writing by the eighth and I do not expect them to respond.
Any thoughts on the next course of action? One of the thoughts is for us to request to view and copy all the records from the last three years. I can't think of anything else to do. The hostility has started as a couple of people that signed the petition have been visited by Mr. nasty who has Scared them. It did backfire on him in a couple of cases, however, it just Made The more angry.

Is it worth it to keep fighting? We just saw the ballot but they're putting forth and it makes no sense. There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not. this is what the ballot looks like.
~~~
There is one open seat. Candidate elected to the board will serve for 3 years.
To vote for a candidate check the box next to his or her name. Do not check more than two boxes or your vote will be void.
. ___ Incumbant A
2.___ incumbent B
3.___ incumbent C
4._________________ write in candidate
5._________________ write in candidate

Is this gross manipulation to keep the incumbents in power or is it just pure stupidity on whomever crafted this ballot?

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Your annual meeting is in 8 days and you are demanding a special meeting? Doesn’t sound like the Board could meet the notification requirements if they want to hold a special meeting.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM

Any thoughts on the next course of action? One of the thoughts is for us to request to view and copy all the records from the last three years.

Your group asked for //all// the records of the last three years?

If I were on this board, I would vote to respond that the HOA is declining producing //all// the records of the last three years. And then I would let you figure it out. Please read TPC 209.005 (e).

You are asking the board to comply with the law. Your group needs to as well.

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM
We just saw the ballot but they're putting forth and it makes no sense. There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not. this is what the ballot looks like.
~~~
There is one open seat. Candidate elected to the board will serve for 3 years.
To vote for a candidate check the box next to his or her name. Do not check more than two boxes or your vote will be void.
. ___ Incumbant A
2.___ incumbent B
3.___ incumbent C
4._________________ write in candidate
5._________________ write in candidate

I call this fraud.

I think your group is stuck either hiring an attorney or lining up people to run for the board a year from now in January 2025.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

We ask that the elections be postponed until a special meeting in 45 days to allow time for proper notification and solicitation of potential candidates. The Jan 8th date is when we asked for a response. This letter was delivered on Dec 29th. 10 days to respond.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

No. We did not ask for records yet. It is a thought of next step if they throw this petition in the garbage and ignore it. What do you you thiink should be the next step?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

First, Barbara, it's wonderful that you with perhaps others are able to get a group of owners to unify against this abusive and secretive Board. It is hard work to bring people to gather like this, and many who inquire here will not do the work involved. Major kudos.

You're demand for a special meeting of the owners as Dean points out, would not meeting notice requirements. Your demand for 3 years of records would serve what purpose?

I'm sorry to say, however, that many of your above statements are incorrect re: what your group demands from the Board because you/your group are confused about which governing documents or state statutes you refer to

It is state statute that has some requirements for Board candidates. One, you wrote, is ownership. You also wrote that your HOA's Bylaws do require at least one director be a full-time owner-occupant. So the Board "resolution" is meaningless. Everyone you persuade should write your name in the write-in blank on the (ridiculous) ballot.

You ask that the CC&Rs be amended to allow Owners to attend via phone or computer. But it would be the Bylaws that would need to be amended. Or even a simple Board motion or resolution could be approved.

You ask for an amendment to require civil, respectful board conduct with owners at open board meetings. But an amendment to what???? Again this would need only be a board-approved motion.

Barbara wrote: "...this is what the ballot looks like.
'There is one open seat. Candidate elected to the board will serve for 3 years.
To vote for a candidate check the box next to his or her name. Do not check more than two boxes or your vote will be void.
. ___ Incumbant A
2.___ incumbent B
3.___ incumbent C
4._________________ write in candidate
5._________________ write in candidate'

This, of course, doesn't match what Barbara says is in her HOA's Bylaws, so the results of this election would be illegal (perhaps not the right word-"invalid?").

You wrote: "There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not." Please cite your Bylaw language showing how long directors' terms are, and how many directors your HOA must have. Please cite only verbiage related to this reset only. I will not read long cut & paste stuff that's unrelated.

RE: the annual meeting. who counts the ballots per your bylaws or TX statute? I believe you or another TX poster wrote that owners may witness the counting of the ballots? Who announces the results of the ballot tabulations? What role, if any does your property manager have in all this.

The best action would be that the HOA attorney attends this annual meeting and election and "assists." But since your board is a bunch of crooks, they won't permit that.

I rarely agree with Elle to seek legal advice, but your group must try to find its own attorney. I often advise waiting until a next election. ut you, Barbara and other Part-time owner-occupants wuill be kept out of Board meetings that whole year. I'd start with paying an attorney to write a letter to this Board to cease its crooked "resolutions" and its violations of your governing documents and Tex statutes. Both Elle & I have separately in separate posts (I think) advised you to make a very, very careful list of every governing doc with its number and which CORRECT doc it's in. And a Brief summary of what it states..-not every word.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/01/2024 7:20 PM
Both Elle & I have separately in separate posts (I think) advised you to make a very, very careful list of every governing doc with its number and which CORRECT doc it's in. And a Brief summary of what it states..-not every word.

Nope, I did not advise this. Nor would I ever advise this. Not in this day and age of online searchable statutes and frequently searchable, digital governing documents.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

hire a prepaid legal service for $50
ask them to write a letter demanding the election ballot be fixed and the election be delayed.
these clowns won't do anything till they get a letter from a lawyer.
then start looking for a lawyer that has expertise in hoa law.
Hopefully you win the election and get the 4 seats up for grab.

good luck.

there is a "good" Texas HOA law book on amazon. I'd buy that and start reading it to educate yourself.

vis ta vie

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 7:04 PM
We ask that the elections be postponed until a special meeting in 45 days to allow time for proper notification and solicitation of potential candidates. The Jan 8th date is when we asked for a response. This letter was delivered on Dec 29th. 10 days to respond.

I believe you have the right to call a special meeting, but I don’t believe you have the right to delay annual meeting.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Texas Homeowners Association Law: Fourth Edition : The Essential Legal Guide for Texas Homeowners Associations and Homeowners
is the book that I'd recommend, good luck.

vis ta vie

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 01/01/2024 7:46 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/01/2024 7:20 PM
Both Elle & I have separately in separate posts (I think) advised you to make a very, very careful list of every governing doc with its number and which CORRECT doc it's in. And a Brief summary of what it states..-not every word.

Nope, I did not advise this. Nor would I ever advise this. Not in this day and age of online searchable statutes and frequently searchable, digital governing documents.

The entire letter. (It doesn't c&p the format with bullet points but you get the idea)

I guess we will be getting an atty.

Members
of the community are concerned that there has not been proper notification of the annual meeting, nominations for vacant board seats, and have concern about the recent resolution posted ni the clubhouse. We are requesting that the Annual Elections be
postponed for 45
days and to be held at a Special Meeting in order to:
•
•
• •
Provide proper notice to association members soliciting
candidates interested ni running for the board per TPC 209.00593 (a-1)
allow a properly designated nominating committee to gather nominations for ALL open seats as defined as End of Term of Office, as per our Bylaws article VSection 1. properly notify al residents of the nominations for al open seats as defined as End of Term of Office as per our Bylaws article VSection 1.
conduct voting using proper election procedures and collection of
proxy votes.
discuss the resolution passed on December 18 which we recognize as being nul and void as it is in direct violation of TPC 209.00591
We also request that all members be allowed to vote on the following proposed amendments:
Alow Association Members and Board Membersot attendmeetings virtually by phone, facetime,
zoom, etc.) arranged by the absentee
member at their own expense.
Allow all HOA members in good standing (up to date on dues etc.) to serve on the board regardless of the amount of time they are physically here, but that we may require no more than 2board members to be
residents, TPC 209.00591 (a-1).
Adopt a Code of Conduct for meetings ot ensure civility.
We want ot recognize that this is a great neighborhood and whether we are here all year or not, we all want to live ni this neighborhood, and if a member has an interest ni serving, they should not be excluded from hte balot, and fi amember wishesot
atend open board
meetings by phone or computer, they should not be excluded from attending.
We Submit with this request, the required 25% (27.52%) of members as per Article 3, Section 2 of our Bylaws.
If the Board does not intend to comply with any of
the above, please
let us know in writing by January 8, 2023.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

That is a bit of a mess and hard to read. Hope that isn't the format it was submitted as. I know I had a hard time following it. A few questions. Does your HOA board have to meet to discuss this letter? Will that then be in executive session or at regular meeting? Will there be a regular meeting prior to that deadline date? How is the board to discuss this letter and situation just because you sent the letter?

There is usually a rule in your documents stating one should be in good status to be able to vote. The rub has always been that doesn't mean one not in good standing can't be elected. They just can't vote for themselves. Who is going to vote for someone in bad standing is something you can't control. (Think Trump).

I don't think the members have the ability to divert the annual meeting. It's in the documents. You can still have a special meeting. One that can recall the board at a later time.

Voting electronically via "Zoom" etc... is sometimes still in this day and age not legal. As crazy as that sounds. We still have to go to the ballot box to cast our votes do we not? Attending a meeting electronically is a good thing. Just don't expect that a vote that way to always be official. There may have to be a physical way.

Former HOA President

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

You wrote: "There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not." Please cite your Bylaw language showing how long directors' terms are, and how many directors your HOA must have. Please cite only verbiage related to this reset only. I will not read long cut & paste stuff that's unrelated.

Bylaws- The affairs of the association shall be managed by a board of seven directors only who shall be members of the association.

RE: the annual meeting. who counts the ballots per your bylaws or TX statute? I believe you or another TX poster wrote that owners may witness the counting of the ballots? Who announces the results of the ballot tabulations? What role, if any does your property manager have in all this.

I can find nothing about counting ballots in our Bylaws. I cannot find anything about counting ballots in the statutes.

Our bylaws state we vote by secret ballot. That proxy votes will be registered by the secretary. Cumulative voting is allowed but must be approved by the secretary. The secretary records the votes.

Reading the minutes from our January 2023 Board meeting which was tobe an annual meeting but was "cancelled because we had a lot of Covid in the neighborhood"As per the president at that time. The only notation of election was under the Nominating committee report.

Nominating Committee: (JaneSmith) we have (candidate A) who is running. She was the only one on the ballot and when the votes were counted, she was placed on the board to be a new member of the board and will be voted on when all members of the board are present to cast their vote for positions.

Candidate A became the Vice President.

Our vice president, secretary, and the person who was president in January(he had resigned due to illness, was reappointed to board to fill a vacancy in August in a closed meeting of the board but that is another story) the Three board members who are leading this campaign to keep themselves and their friends on the board.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/02/2024 4:38 AM
That is a bit of a mess and hard to read. Hope that isn't the format it was submitted as. I know I had a hard time following it. A few questions. Does your HOA board have to meet to discuss this letter? Will that then be in executive session or at regular meeting? Will there be a regular meeting prior to that deadline date? How is the board to discuss this letter and situation just because you sent the letter?

Yes, it is a mess, as I stated, it did not transpose well when using my phone, I am now on my laptop. I have been informed by an outgoing board member that they are meeting today (secret so I guess executive) to discuss this.

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ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

BarbaraD13,

If the board remains unresponsive, then I think you all should let the elections stand for the moment. Subsequently I think your options are either:

-- Hire an attorney, and in the course of the next 12 months, use the attorney to resolve a number of violations of statute sections and the bylaws. Possibly get a new election done.

-- As long as the board remains unresponsive, continually elevate the tone of your demand letters. No more "shoulds." For violations of statute sections and the bylaws, the letter will be in the form of giving an order (so no more "requests"). Work in the next 12 months to resolve a number of these issues, as needed by threat of litigation. At the same time, line up candidates for next year's election.

You appear to have started this effort to change the board only in mid-December, for an early January annual election. People here will tell you that changing the regime typically takes many months and sometimes a couple of election cycles. A campaign to change the board involves sending out information; possibly starting a web site; sometimes knocking on doors; phoning owners to get out the vote and gather proxies; and so on.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

My interpretation of your letter is 27% of the owners believe you have violated the law, request you rectify the violation and here is our suggestion of how you should do it. As a Board member, I would give your letter proper consideration, confer with HOA attorney and follow their advice.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 01/02/2024 8:03 AM
My interpretation of your letter is 27% of the owners believe you have violated the law, request you rectify the violation and here is our suggestion of how you should do it. As a Board member, I would give your letter proper consideration, confer with HOA attorney and follow their advice.

Thankyou.

We do not have a PM. We also do not have legal counsel on retainer. They hire as needed. This should be interesting. We are in it for the long haul and understand this is a long siege.

Will update again after the meeting on the 9th.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You do not need a lawyer on retainer. That is a waste of money. A little fantasy too.

I do not think given enough time to respond. Have to be dealing with reality. Which 30 days to 90 days.

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Does this Texas code apply to you?
208.0051(c)(c-2) A board meeting may be held by electronic or telephonic means provided that:
(1) each board member may hear and be heard by every other board member;
(2) except for any portion of the meeting conducted in executive session:
(A) all owners in attendance at the meeting may hear all board members; and
(B) owners are allowed to listen using any electronic or telephonic communication method used or expected to be used by a board member to participate; and
(3) the notice of the meeting includes instructions for owners to access any communication method required to be accessible under Subdivision (2)(B).

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Yes. That verbiage is actually in our CC&R as this was a law from 2015. It pertains to video conferenced meetings held by the board. Sadly it is a gray area from what I have learned here as to if a BOD wants to allow phone ins. On that happy note-

I was forced to end a FaceTime call at last months meeting to allow our neighbor to attend.

A week later, they drafted a resolution in a special board meeting where they had all the BOD in attendance. But it was missing a signature. Just found out- that director couldn't attend physically but they had her on a phone call. 🤬

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/02/2024 3:24 PM
Yes. That verbiage is actually in our CC&R as this was a law from 2015. It pertains to video conferenced meetings held by the board. Sadly it is a gray area from what I have learned here as to if a BOD wants to allow phone ins.

You think it is "a gray area." I know of no one else here who has taken this position.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 01/01/2024 6:33 PM

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM

Any thoughts on the next course of action? One of the thoughts is for us to request to view and copy all the records from the last three years.

Your group asked for //all// the records of the last three years?

If I were on this board, I would vote to respond that the HOA is declining producing //all// the records of the last three years. And then I would let you figure it out. Please read TPC 209.005 (e).

You are asking the board to comply with the law. Your group needs to as well.

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM
We just saw the ballot but they're putting forth and it makes no sense. There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not. this is what the ballot looks like.
~~~
There is one open seat. Candidate elected to the board will serve for 3 years.
To vote for a candidate check the box next to his or her name. Do not check more than two boxes or your vote will be void.
. ___ Incumbant A
2.___ incumbent B
3.___ incumbent C
4._________________ write in candidate
5._________________ write in candidate

I call this fraud.

I think your group is stuck either hiring an attorney or lining up people to run for the board a year from now in January 2025.

Oh- looks like they tried to fix things a little bit today and the found another minion. How about this one:

~~
Annual Meeting January 9, 2023
There are 4 open seats. Each Director will serve for a term of 3 years. Only vote for 4 candidates or your vote will be void
___Incumbant A Write in candidate___________
___Incumbant B Write in candidate___________
___Incumbant C Write in Candidate___________
___candidate 1

If you are interested in becoming a board member and want your name on the ballot, let (president or Vice President) know by Jan. 5
Candidates can also be nominated from the floor.
All proxy ballots must be given to (Secretary) by Jan 3.

🤦🏼‍♀️

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Wow, Barbara, good news!! Having also been in an HOA with a crooked board, and even served on one that was abusive & secretive for a year until the evil majority, was voted out with our effort, you made fine progress. I urge you to get your name on the ballot ASAP in writing to both the Prez & VP. I'd use email and also send an overnight registered letter, return receipt requested letter to each of those officers.

Make sure you use your name as on the title of your deed and use your HOA address. It may be a good idea to cite the exact words in TX statutes about who may serve on boards.

If your group has another candidate who's willing and able to serve, have them do the same. Begin campaigning immediately. Onward! Time IS of the essence. HowEVER this election turns out, your group as a united force with some experience will be well-positioned to do important work for the next election.

What size is your HOA (again, if I missed it)?

Re: the Zoom meetings, etc. I believe that a poster stated, when this statute was cited previously, that the word "may" at the beginning, as Terri cites it, means the Board can choose whether or not to set up such meetings. In other words, there seems to be no statutory requirement that the Board do so.

BarbaraD13 (Texas)
Posts: 46

Posted:

We are 109 single Family Homes. We allready have 5 folks throwing their hats in. Onward!

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/02/2024 6:02 PM

Posted By ElleN on 01/01/2024 6:33 PM

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM

Any thoughts on the next course of action? One of the thoughts is for us to request to view and copy all the records from the last three years.

Your group asked for //all// the records of the last three years?

If I were on this board, I would vote to respond that the HOA is declining producing //all// the records of the last three years. And then I would let you figure it out. Please read TPC 209.005 (e).

You are asking the board to comply with the law. Your group needs to as well.

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD13 on 01/01/2024 2:14 PM
We just saw the ballot but they're putting forth and it makes no sense. There are four terms that are finishing out of 7. 3 Directors are running again one is not. this is what the ballot looks like.
~~~
There is one open seat. Candidate elected to the board will serve for 3 years.
To vote for a candidate check the box next to his or her name. Do not check more than two boxes or your vote will be void.
. ___ Incumbant A
2.___ incumbent B
3.___ incumbent C
4._________________ write in candidate
5._________________ write in candidate

I call this fraud.

I think your group is stuck either hiring an attorney or lining up people to run for the board a year from now in January 2025.

Oh- looks like they tried to fix things a little bit today and the found another minion. How about this one:

~~
Annual Meeting January 9, 2023
There are 4 open seats. Each Director will serve for a term of 3 years. Only vote for 4 candidates or your vote will be void
___Incumbant A Write in candidate___________
___Incumbant B Write in candidate___________
___Incumbant C Write in Candidate___________
___candidate 1

If you are interested in becoming a board member and want your name on the ballot, let (president or Vice President) know by Jan. 5
Candidates can also be nominated from the floor.
All proxy ballots must be given to (Secretary) by Jan 3.

🤦🏼‍♀️

Sounds like you need to email the secretary today and get your name on the ballot.