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ElizabethR6 (Georgia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Hello, our stormwater drains in the common area are privately owned by the HOA. Therefore, the HOA/Residents have to maintain them. If we ask the County to take Ownership of the drains is that something they typically will do? I would think that since the neighborhood at its inception planned for these drains to be owned by the HOA that the County wouldn't want to take ownership, especially when the HOA is maintaining the Common Area for which these drains are located.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Some cities/counties will take them over, but many will not.

Can't hurt to ask.

You might suggest to the city that they take over the maintenance of the drains and pay for it by creating a special tax district within your development.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You'd have to make a case that it's in the best interests of the city (and the tax payers) for the city to take over this maintenance. What's in it for them, in other words. If there have been negative downstream consequences from the storm drains' operations, maybe you could make a good case...?

Keep in mind that one reason HOAs are so popular is that cities are able to offload their responsibility for things like this onto private citizens - but without reducing the tax base, so it saves the city and the other tax payers money while essentially making the HOA residents pay for something that others are receiving "for free" as tax payers. So HOA owners are paying for their own storm drains and for those of others via their taxes, but the others' taxes are not paying for the HOA residents' storm drains. I occasionally comment that HOAs are a great deal for everyone except those who actually own property in them, and this is one of the examples. So you're up against this reality.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 01/01/2024 4:34 AM

You'd have to make a case that it's in the best interests of the city (and the tax payers) for the city to take over this maintenance. What's in it for them, in other words.

When I was in Virginia, the County took over the maintenance because they saw that the storm water management wasn't being properly kept up. This created issues for the County with the EPA.
ElizabethR6 (Georgia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Let me ask you this.... based on my research it seems pretty common for HOA's to own and maintain the storm drains located within their common areas. In your experience is this correct for the most part? We have someone in our neighborhood making it seem like this is incredibly rare and he's very worried about possible costs to completely REPLACE these storm drains at some point soon. I keep having them inspected and these stormwater maintenance companies basically think I'm nuts. They keep telling me that it would be extremely unlikely we'd see a complete failure for like 100 years on average since in general they're very durable and our neighborhood is relatively new. They have indicated that if we're going to experience a problem at any point a more likely culprit would be a clog of some kind, which is why the neighborhood is/has been saving for unforeseen repairs and why we do regular maintenance/inspections (not just for stormwater drains but for anything that may come about unexpectedly for the neighborhood) This guy is really spreading a lot of fear in the neighborhood and I want to make sure that while I can't guarantee 100% that we won't experience a complete failure, I still feel like we don't have anything that's rare and that we're doing everything we can to make sure things stay in tip/top shape. Any other thoughts?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Around here the Water District fines us if we fail our periodic inspections. We're in the water shed of a good sized river, so maybe they're extra jumpy. Also, with recent storms dumping a foot or more of water, areas that weren't in flood zones all of a sudden are discovering that they actually are in flood zones.

So who knows. It's certainly worth asking local officials, but keep in mind that they need to see some benefit to them - otherwise they have no incentive to do what you want. The creation of a special taxing district may do the trick. But that won't save the HOA any money, it will just take an ongoing project off their plate and reduce the amount of expertise needed to manage it (most HOA board members aren't knowledgeable about water management).
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElizabethR6 on 01/01/2024 6:35 AM
Let me ask you this.... based on my research it seems pretty common for HOA's to own and maintain the storm drains located within their common areas. In your experience is this correct for the most part? We have someone in our neighborhood making it seem like this is incredibly rare and he's very worried about possible costs to completely REPLACE these storm drains at some point soon. I keep having them inspected and these stormwater maintenance companies basically think I'm nuts. They keep telling me that it would be extremely unlikely we'd see a complete failure for like 100 years on average since in general they're very durable and our neighborhood is relatively new. They have indicated that if we're going to experience a problem at any point a more likely culprit would be a clog of some kind, which is why the neighborhood is/has been saving for unforeseen repairs and why we do regular maintenance/inspections (not just for stormwater drains but for anything that may come about unexpectedly for the neighborhood) This guy is really spreading a lot of fear in the neighborhood and I want to make sure that while I can't guarantee 100% that we won't experience a complete failure, I still feel like we don't have anything that's rare and that we're doing everything we can to make sure things stay in tip/top shape. Any other thoughts?



It’s common. In our area, if your community lies with the city limits the town is responsible for SWM, as well as streets. If the community is not inside city limits the HOA is responsible for both.

As for inspections, I would expect whoever conducts your reserves study to have the expertise to advise you.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
We don't have our storm drains inspected regularly, although we do keep an eye on our detention pond which receives the rain water from the drains. A failure of some component should make itself known. We'd take a closer look if we were in an area that experienced low-level earthquakes or if we were prone to landslides or sink holes - anything that could undermine the ground surrounding the storm drains.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElizabethR6 on 01/01/2024 6:35 AM
it seems pretty common for HOA's to own and maintain the storm drains located within their common areas. In your experience is this correct for the most part?
Yes. For what is worth --

-- Improper drainage is a big, legal deal and a source of much litigation. Developers put down impermeable surface pursuant to the exacting specs on the plat approved by the city. Even then, sometimes the drainage design is not satisfactory, and, with potentially some city oversight, things have to be tweaked.

-- Developing a mindset to deal with people who simply do not understand xyz is important. The board can provide the perfectly rational explanation by the //professionals // (that you posted above) to the chowderhead doing all the griping. Do it once. After this, respond one more time that you have answered his concerns and will not respond further. Subsequently ignore him. Your and the other directors' time is valuable. You are volunteers. You owe it to yourselves and the other owners to not kowtow to someone who is not informed.

-- If every owner is happy at a HOA, then the board is likely doing something wrong.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElizabethR6 on 01/01/2024 6:35 AM
Let me ask you this.... based on my research it seems pretty common for HOA's to own and maintain the storm drains located within their common areas. In your experience is this correct for the most part? We have someone in our neighborhood making it seem like this is incredibly rare and he's very worried about possible costs to completely REPLACE these storm drains at some point soon. I keep having them inspected and these stormwater maintenance companies basically think I'm nuts. They keep telling me that it would be extremely unlikely we'd see a complete failure for like 100 years on average since in general they're very durable and our neighborhood is relatively new. They have indicated that if we're going to experience a problem at any point a more likely culprit would be a clog of some kind, which is why the neighborhood is/has been saving for unforeseen repairs and why we do regular maintenance/inspections (not just for stormwater drains but for anything that may come about unexpectedly for the neighborhood) This guy is really spreading a lot of fear in the neighborhood and I want to make sure that while I can't guarantee 100% that we won't experience a complete failure, I still feel like we don't have anything that's rare and that we're doing everything we can to make sure things stay in tip/top shape. Any other thoughts?


We have a stormwater council in charge of our stormwater drains and our drainage ponds that is run concurrently with our master HOA. In effect, the HOA owns the stormwater system not only for the HOA, but also for an apartment complex and a commercial area that were platted with our community. It is VERY common here in Florida for the HOA or a CDD (separate tax entity that the developer creates so they don't have to pay the development costs up front) to own the stormwater drainage system.

We have a separate reserve account for our stormwater council. The reserve study shows the expected life of our large drainage pipes and outflows to be nearly 100 years. That being said, we did have to dig up and replace on pipe last year that was cracked and had collected debris that was blocking drainage. It cost about $50,000 for that small section - and we were told it was probably cracked when it was installed by the developer.

You are doing all the right things if you are getting the pipes inspected every year, and as long as you are putting money aside in the reserves, then this is a non-issue. You just need to stay on message and explain to anyone that asks that it's not unusual to own the drainage system, you are making sure it's maintained, and there's nothing to worry about.

We have gone through many hurricanes with huge amounts of water since our community was built and none of that has ever damaged the system. Unless there's an earthquake, what does this guy think is going to happen?

Our county would never accept our stormwater system. Why should they when we are privately paying for something they would have to maintain if they took it over?
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElizabethR6 on 12/31/2023 2:27 PM
Hello, our stormwater drains in the common area are privately owned by the HOA. Therefore, the HOA/Residents have to maintain them. If we ask the County to take Ownership of the drains is that something they typically will do? I would think that since the neighborhood at its inception planned for these drains to be owned by the HOA that the County wouldn't want to take ownership, especially when the HOA is maintaining the Common Area for which these drains are located.

Assume I am your county’s public works director. You approach me and provide the facts. You are an HOA with a drainage system on the HOA’s Common Area. - that is not causing a problem for anyone. The common area is for the exclusive use of the homeowners and not open to the public. Your declaration requires the HOA to fund reserves for maintenance of the common areas. The homeowners do not want the financial liability of the drainage system and want all the tax payers of the county to effectively pay the HOA fees for your homeowners. Sounds like a short conversation.

Most people believe their county is a cash cow that will instantly jump into action and fix their issue. The reality is county public works directors have a budget and have to prioritize what gets done and when. Be careful what you ask for. When it comes time for repair or replacement, the county could tell they don’t have the funding , your repair is low priority or your repair will not be completed until other storm drain work in the area is scheduled in 5 years.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Our city is the owner of the storm water system that runs through our association because the storm water also comes from nearby city streets. This water flows into a pond system that is located on HOA property, however the city also maintains that.

This relationship was developed through easements.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Never hurts to ask. Go to your local governing body's engineer and ask.
Out here the developer built the storm drains, but the SNWA and the water district
maintains both the storm drains and the sewer lines.

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