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LmT (California)
Posts: 237
Posted:
Here we go again. One of our members is insisting we place a stop sign at the exit from our private road onto the city street. There is a pole which holds the city street sign and our street sign. He claims there was always one there until it blew away and our HOA would be liable should anyone fail to stop at the exit and get into an accident on the city street. I have no memory of there ever being a stop sign on that pole. I have asked our manager to contact the city and find out who owns that pole and who is responsible for posting stop signs but who knows when that will happen. We are up to about 15 emails from him on the subject and it's exhausting.

Does anyone have any experience with a matter like this. We have stop signs within the property as well as speed signs, no trespassing and far too many other signs. The last thing we need is another warning sign but if not doing so would leave us vulnerable then I guess we must put a stop sign.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If it's a city sign, perhaps the member could be directed to the city's public works department?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
And if the city has no opinion, I figure that a stop sign is cheaper than the fallout from an accident.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I believe most HOAs that have privately maintained streets have a stop sign at the intersection with the public street. I don’t believe you public works dept. will install one because basically the HOA street is a driveway under the law.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Sounds like one would be there.

1) Check online maps with history to see if one existed.
2) If one did, check with the city/county about who would be responsible to replace.
2a) if one did not exist, check with the city/county if the HOA could place one on their pole or if they have to.

Note: There are specific height requirements for road signs. They need to be followed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LmT on 12/30/2023 1:07 PM
I have asked our manager to contact the city and find out who owns that pole and who is responsible for posting stop signs but who knows when that will happen. We are up to about 15 emails from him on the subject and it's exhausting.
First, from experience with city/county land use departments (which in fact have a stunning amount of control over subdivisions), I would not make a move until the city weighed in. Second, as needed I think your HOA should try to expedite input from the city.

I would not take one step further until the city weighs in. Why? Because the HOA should not be doing something for which the city has responsibility.

Third, some tough love: You are letting the emails from this person exhaust you. Answer this person one more time that the board is speaking with the city about this. Explain that the board will not be responding further until it hears back from the city. Ignore all subsequent communications on this topic. Resist the desire to be liked. This person will not be satisfied until either the city weighs in or the stop sign is up. You have no control over either until the city weighs in.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Excellent that your Board has directed your manager to look into this topic.

I've so appreciated how hard your Board works, LmT, with an HOA of 40 homes. And, with all respect, and based on your previous posts, too, on far larger topics, your board (3? 5?) is way too generous, re: individual owners and their demands, OR "vocal minorities" (your words), and their demands.

You & your board in my opinion need to set boundaries.. To permit ONE owner to harass your board with 15 emails on this ONE topic is a sign that your Board must, in a open meeting, set policy about the ways in which owners may directly contact individual directors. And to what extent and under what conditions, directors will reply.

Now, my HOA has a full-time onsite PM & his full-time asst. So NO demands like the ones by this poster ever come to any individual directors. In a small fairly uncomplicated HOA, maybe it's common that any owners who want to can send a barrage of emails to one or all directors. Is this common in smaller HOAs??

Something like this might work. Our Board voted long ago to permit owners to submit agenda items. There's a fairly brief form and the PM & board president accept it OR send it back with a request for more info. In this case, they'd ask the submitter to check with the municipality and send their response on the agency's letterhead to include with their submission. OR, the PM would check and share their findings with the submitter & president and proceed from there. The point is, when the owner submits, the back & forth does not occur.

Maybe others know better ways, but I hope no one thinks that 15 emails exchanged on this or any topic is reasonable or a part of volunteer directors' fiduciary duties.

BTW, The vehicle exit for our gated sq. block urban high rise has NO stop sign to go onto a street that sometimes is very busy & other times is very quiet. The exit gate-operated by a Kiosk staffer next to it-is usually closed, so drivers leaving must wait for it to open. But at the busy AM exit time for an hour or more it's left open. Drivers top or not depending on conditions. There have been no traffic incidents in 20+years.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our streets went from private to public when I was President. That meant we had to tear down our personalized street signs and let the city put up theirs. It also meant they had to come in and install the Right of way signs like Yield/Stop. We had a few intersections that had trees or other obstructions blocking the views of those stop/yield signs. Those tress had to be removed.

There is more to just putting up a Stop sign. It's not up to an individual or the HOA to decide. This has to be done officially by the City/County traffic or code departments. Your HOA may have to attend a city meeting to get an ordinance for it. There is a huge unknown issue about the legality and enforcement of traffic signs. Did you know stealing a Name Street sign alone can be 10K or jail time? A STOP sign being removed can get you prison.

Putting up a sign doesn't make your HOA more or less liable. If anything, it makes your HOA more liable if you put up an illegal traffic sign. It's best your HOA follow the law than follow the fear. Putting up a sign and someone has an accident is not going to be any less liability on the HOA unless it did so illegally.

Former HOA President
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
good luck, it took our city about 6 to 7 months to get back to us when we wanted to plant some trees in the right of way.eamiling 3 different departments.
Stop signs are like $50 plus labor to install, not that expensive and common sense says there shoudl be one there. why are you opposed to it?

vis ta vie
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Installation isn't the issue. It's the LEGALITY of it being enforced. You can't just go to City Hall and pay $50 to install a stop sign.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/31/2023 1:40 PM
Installation isn't the issue. It's the LEGALITY of it being enforced. You can't just go to City Hall and pay $50 to install a stop sign.

However, if one did exist, it can be reported as missing and the city/county will replace it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
When I worked at a University, there was a trend of students stealing signs (likely happens at all universities).

I witnessed a bicyclist being hit by a vehicle because some idiot stole the stop sign.

Neither party to the accident saw each other until it was too late.
Had the stop sign been there, the vehicle would have slowed down to stop and the two parties would likely have seen each other.

Therefore, I think it would be a good idea to have one there.

Hopefully, next week you can get in touch with the proper people and find out who has the responsibility to replace/install.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237
Posted:
Thank you everyone for replying. Today we will submit a work order online with the city and take it from there.

Also, I will ask for an item to be placed on the next agenda proposing guidelines for contacting board members.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Say, LmT, there are some wise posters who are in HOAs that sound similar to yours---not complicated and maybe self managed or almost self-managed. You've mentioned a property manager, but if your HOA is part of a portfolio account, perhaps they PM doesn't do very much for your HOA?

It seems to me that if are interested and have the times, you might start a new thread about how board members in HOAs similar to yours handle requests and demands from owners. Especially when there are a lot of them.

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