JoseP (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Want to know if a HOA can force home owners to put an E-collar on there dog
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E-collar
Started by JoseP • 15 replies • 373 views
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ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Is this requirement in the HOA's covenants (a.k.a. CC&Rs, Declaration, et cetera)?
For one thing, the Board can create "reasonable rules" about the use of common areas. What is "reasonable"? It is whatever the courts say tomorrow it is.
How hard do you want to fight this? If you lawyer up, the enemy may quickly become not the HOA, but the energy sapping, dollar-draining process of a legal battle, possibly in court. The attorneys are not going to care nearly as much as you do.
For one thing, the Board can create "reasonable rules" about the use of common areas. What is "reasonable"? It is whatever the courts say tomorrow it is.
How hard do you want to fight this? If you lawyer up, the enemy may quickly become not the HOA, but the energy sapping, dollar-draining process of a legal battle, possibly in court. The attorneys are not going to care nearly as much as you do.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoseP on 12/26/2023 9:10 AM
Want to know if a HOA can force home owners to put an E-collar on there dog
Want to know if a HOA can force home owners to put an E-collar on there dog
What do your governing documents say?
They probably can't force you to put an e-collar on your dog but they probably can fine you if your dog causes a nuisance.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posts: 190
Posted:
Check also if there are local laws about what’s required.
There are ethical issues with e-collars. I would be disappointed in a board that requires them, and might suggest they should try them on themselves first.
There are ethical issues with e-collars. I would be disappointed in a board that requires them, and might suggest they should try them on themselves first.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Animal control issue not an HOA.
Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Many communities and HOAs have leash laws. The CC&Rs will say that pets must be under the physical control of a person while outdoors.
According to Google, e-collars are training collars, and it doesn't sound like they perform the same function as a physical leash. One criticism I've heard of electric fences is that a sufficiently motivated dog will ignore the barrier, and it sounds like you could say the same of an e-collar. Also FWIW, I think shock collars and similar devices are banned in some areas.
Long story short, read your CC&Rs (that thick wad of paper you received when you closed on your home) and see if there is a pet restriction. This will give you enough information to push back on what the board is saying - both because the board may be out of its lane depending on the wording of the pet restriction and because e-collars are probably ineffective for what the board wants to accomplish.
According to Google, e-collars are training collars, and it doesn't sound like they perform the same function as a physical leash. One criticism I've heard of electric fences is that a sufficiently motivated dog will ignore the barrier, and it sounds like you could say the same of an e-collar. Also FWIW, I think shock collars and similar devices are banned in some areas.
Long story short, read your CC&Rs (that thick wad of paper you received when you closed on your home) and see if there is a pet restriction. This will give you enough information to push back on what the board is saying - both because the board may be out of its lane depending on the wording of the pet restriction and because e-collars are probably ineffective for what the board wants to accomplish.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Any HOAs, of course, have restrictions against noise nuisances in their CC&Rs. So that's the first place to look. There also might be a section on "pets," so look for that, where you might see that the HOA may make Rules about pets, including dogs. (Since we're a condo high rise, we have MANY rules about pets.)
In your Rules & Regs, then, you might see something similar to our Rule: "8. All pet owners are responsible for a pet’s nuisance and noise disturbance. Dogs are not to bark frequently, unnecessarily or incessantly." Rules violations in an HOA must have published penalties listed including a fine schedule that are probably in your rules document.
So, as Terri. suggests, in our HOA, an initial "courtesy letter" is sent to the owner saying the noise nuisance violation must be corrected. If ignored, (after hearing, etc.), the Board would fine the dwelling owner, and would keep fining the owner over & over until the violation is "cured." Our rules include that fines may be doubled upon each offense after the initial one.
So, unless your HOA has a rule that owners of dogs that bark incessantly or frequently may be required to place an E-collar on the dog, after notice and hearing, whenever in the common areas, OR perhaps anywhere on the premises, I'd say the HOA has no authority to order such an action. How would they enforce it anyway? What "force" could they use? Instead, they, if their rules permit, would keep fining the noise nuisance violator.
So, one way or another the HOA can keep disciplining the owner until they comply.
In your Rules & Regs, then, you might see something similar to our Rule: "8. All pet owners are responsible for a pet’s nuisance and noise disturbance. Dogs are not to bark frequently, unnecessarily or incessantly." Rules violations in an HOA must have published penalties listed including a fine schedule that are probably in your rules document.
So, as Terri. suggests, in our HOA, an initial "courtesy letter" is sent to the owner saying the noise nuisance violation must be corrected. If ignored, (after hearing, etc.), the Board would fine the dwelling owner, and would keep fining the owner over & over until the violation is "cured." Our rules include that fines may be doubled upon each offense after the initial one.
So, unless your HOA has a rule that owners of dogs that bark incessantly or frequently may be required to place an E-collar on the dog, after notice and hearing, whenever in the common areas, OR perhaps anywhere on the premises, I'd say the HOA has no authority to order such an action. How would they enforce it anyway? What "force" could they use? Instead, they, if their rules permit, would keep fining the noise nuisance violator.
So, one way or another the HOA can keep disciplining the owner until they comply.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posts: 858
Posted:
What is your city ordinance about dogs and being leashed?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 12/26/2023 1:33 PM
Many communities and HOAs have leash laws. The CC&Rs will say that pets must be under the physical control of a person while outdoors.
According to Google, e-collars are training collars, and it doesn't sound like they perform the same function as a physical leash. One criticism I've heard of electric fences is that a sufficiently motivated dog will ignore the barrier, and it sounds like you could say the same of an e-collar. Also FWIW, I think shock collars and similar devices are banned in some areas.
Long story short, read your CC&Rs (that thick wad of paper you received when you closed on your home) and see if there is a pet restriction. This will give you enough information to push back on what the board is saying - both because the board may be out of its lane depending on the wording of the pet restriction and because e-collars are probably ineffective for what the board wants to accomplish.
Many communities and HOAs have leash laws. The CC&Rs will say that pets must be under the physical control of a person while outdoors.
According to Google, e-collars are training collars, and it doesn't sound like they perform the same function as a physical leash. One criticism I've heard of electric fences is that a sufficiently motivated dog will ignore the barrier, and it sounds like you could say the same of an e-collar. Also FWIW, I think shock collars and similar devices are banned in some areas.
Long story short, read your CC&Rs (that thick wad of paper you received when you closed on your home) and see if there is a pet restriction. This will give you enough information to push back on what the board is saying - both because the board may be out of its lane depending on the wording of the pet restriction and because e-collars are probably ineffective for what the board wants to accomplish.
This is what is confusing me. E-collars are for training. WTF does the HOA have to do with such?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The only E-collars I know about "train" dogs to stop barking by delivering an "E" shock when the dog barks. Barking/noise appears to be the violation the OP is talking about. I might be misunderstand it? AND the purpose of E-collars?
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
The question is why does your HOA want an e-collar on your dog?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I read a bit more about e-collars, and it sounds like they're meant to stop a dog from engaging in a variety of unwanted behaviors including chewing on open wounds (a "cone of shame" is suggested as an alternative).
If a dog barks constantly, the board has a right to tell the owner to address this behavior. I doubt that the board has a right to tell the owner HOW to address the behavior, which is what this sounds like. There are a number of possible solutions to problem barking - and I doubt that administering electric shocks will calm a dog that's hyper enough to bark all the time.
If a dog barks constantly, the board has a right to tell the owner to address this behavior. I doubt that the board has a right to tell the owner HOW to address the behavior, which is what this sounds like. There are a number of possible solutions to problem barking - and I doubt that administering electric shocks will calm a dog that's hyper enough to bark all the time.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
We boarded our 2 dogs for two nights. Without telling us or giving us the opportunity to pick them up, they put an e-collar on one of them to stop his barking (he just wanted to leave). When we returned, he was shaking uncontrollably. Very cruel.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/27/2023 7:25 AM
We boarded our 2 dogs for two nights. Without telling us or giving us the opportunity to pick them up, they put an e-collar on one of them to stop his barking (he just wanted to leave). When we returned, he was shaking uncontrollably. Very cruel.
We boarded our 2 dogs for two nights. Without telling us or giving us the opportunity to pick them up, they put an e-collar on one of them to stop his barking (he just wanted to leave). When we returned, he was shaking uncontrollably. Very cruel.
I wonder if by "e-collar" here, the board means a collar that allows tracking the location of a pet. Evidently some e-collars are for tracking (as much as training?). It is an alternative to implanting a chip on the dog/cat. It seems so strange to require a training e-collar.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posts: 190
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/27/2023 7:46 AM
I would be seething. A complaint to the BBB might result, with a demand that the business make a $2000 donation to the local animal shelter. Posted By TerriS6 on 12/27/2023 7:25 AM
We boarded our 2 dogs for two nights. Without telling us or giving us the opportunity to pick them up, they put an e-collar on one of them to stop his barking (he just wanted to leave). When we returned, he was shaking uncontrollably. Very cruel.
We boarded our 2 dogs for two nights. Without telling us or giving us the opportunity to pick them up, they put an e-collar on one of them to stop his barking (he just wanted to leave). When we returned, he was shaking uncontrollably. Very cruel.
I wonder if by "e-collar" here, the board means a collar that allows tracking the location of a pet. Evidently some e-collars are for tracking (as much as training?). It is an alternative to implanting a chip on the dog/cat. It seems so strange to require a training e-collar.
You are far kinder than I ;-).
Would someone who used a shock collar on a dog use one on a toddler? I hope not - if not why is it ok for a dog?
Interesting thought about tracking collar.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Likely no, is the animal at large? Just follow your governing documents on nuisances and animals at large.
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