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WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Our NC bylaws state:

Action by Members. Except as provided otherwise in the Articles of Incorporation, the Declaration or these Bylaws, any act or decision approved by a vote of no less than two-thirds (2/3) of all votes present at a duly held meeting of the Members at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Members.

70% of the people that voted voted to turn a soccer field size part of our park into a wild flower field (about 60 out of 150 homes voted so 42 homes is the total representation that voted for it) . Can the board ignore this vote?

I am not familiar with the phrase "action by members" is this a legal clause that allows members to overide the board's decisions and push through what they want? The AOI and Declaration don't address this phrase.

Ex President is arguing that board doesnt' have to do what people voted for. Ex president also never held board meetings open to the public, didn't even know what % quorum was required and failed to insure the new playground he had installed.

vis ta vie
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Members may take action on things members have control over.
Typically, this is:

Election of Directors
Removal of Directors
Amending the Covenants
Amending the Bylaws
Amending the Articles of Incorporation
Perhaps, ratifying the budget
Perhaps, authorizing special assessments
Perhaps, authorizing an increase in assessments

This may be done via vote or as an action without a meeting.

Anything outside of this control would be considered an advisory vote to the board.
However, the board would make the final decision.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
How do your bylaws define a quorum?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM
Our NC bylaws state:

Action by Members. Except as provided otherwise in the Articles of Incorporation, the Declaration or these Bylaws, any act or decision approved by a vote of no less than two-thirds (2/3) of all votes present at a duly held meeting of the Members at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Members.
My take: This is a definition. To me, this section is absolutely, 100% not saying that that owners may override board decisions. Owners may have the right to override board decisions, but this has to be expressly in the governing documents or state law, like TimB4 posted.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM

70% of the people that voted voted to turn a soccer field size part of our park into a wild flower field (about 60 out of 150 homes voted so 42 homes is the total representation that voted for it) . Can the board ignore this vote?
The issue looks to me like it is actually an amendment to the declaration. Hence the rules for amending would have to be followed.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM
I am not familiar with the phrase "action by members" is this a legal clause that allows members to overide the board's decisions and push through what they want? The AOI and Declaration don't address this phrase.
See above for my take on this. As usual, I would feel more comfortable seeing the entire bylaws and declaration before trying to figure out why this definition was put in the bylaws. FWIW I think you are asking good questions.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 12/24/2023 6:51 AM
How do your bylaws define a quorum?

The presence at the meeting of Members entitled to cast, or of proxies entitled to cast, one third (1/3) of the votes appurtenant to the Lots shall constitute a quorum for any action except as otherwise provided in the Articles of Incorporation, the Declaration, or these Bylaws. If, however, such quorum shall not be present or represented at any meeting, subsequent meetings may be called, subject to the same notice requirement, until the required quorum is present. No such subsequent meeting shall be held more than sixty (60) days following the preceding meeting.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/24/2023 7:09 AM
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM
Our NC bylaws state:

Action by Members. Except as provided otherwise in the Articles of Incorporation, the Declaration or these Bylaws, any act or decision approved by a vote of no less than two-thirds (2/3) of all votes present at a duly held meeting of the Members at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Members.
My take: This is a definition. To me, this section is absolutely, 100% not saying that that owners may override board decisions. Owners may have the right to override board decisions, but this has to be expressly in the governing documents or state law, like TimB4 posted.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM

70% of the people that voted voted to turn a soccer field size part of our park into a wild flower field (about 60 out of 150 homes voted so 42 homes is the total representation that voted for it) . Can the board ignore this vote?
The issue looks to me like it is actually an amendment to the declaration. Hence the rules for amending would have to be followed.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 6:33 AM
I am not familiar with the phrase "action by members" is this a legal clause that allows members to overide the board's decisions and push through what they want? The AOI and Declaration don't address this phrase.
See above for my take on this. As usual, I would feel more comfortable seeing the entire bylaws and declaration before trying to figure out why this definition was put in the bylaws. FWIW I think you are asking good questions.

Attached are a redacted copy of our governing documents. HOA name changed to ABC HOA. If you want to review I'd be interested in your take. If not I understand. Happy Holidays.
šŸ“Ž Attachments (1):

āø Downloads temporarily unavailable

šŸ“„11224275618371.pdf(247 KB)

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
WendyM5, wow, and what you attached is searchable too. Thank you, ma'am.

Your HOA's gov documents do indeed say the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions. Here is why:

1.
A number of sections speak specifically to a vote of the owners being required. E.g. amendment of the covenants, amendment of the bylaws, increasing the assessment by such-and-such amount, selling HOA-owned land, special assessment, and budget disapproval. In contracts, when a contract makes an express reference to one matter, then other matters are excluded. The legal principle is known as expressio unius est exclusio alterius. In application here, because several sections say the owners have the power to do xyz, this means the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions.

2.
In the bylaws is this:

Section 6.1. Powers. The Board of Directors shall have power to:
...
(c) Exercise for the Association all powers, duties and authority vested in or delegated to this Association and
not reserved to the membership by other provisions of these Bylaws, the Articles of Incorporation or the
Declaration;


(underlined emphasis added by ElleN)

This means the owners cannot override board decisions unless the Bylaws, AoI or Declaration expressly give owners this right.

Anyone unhappy with this reality needs to remember that owners unhappy with a board decision always have the recourse of either a recall or electing new directors at the annual meeting.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/24/2023 10:54 AM
WendyM5, wow, and what you attached is searchable too. Thank you, ma'am.

Your HOA's gov documents do indeed say the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions. Here is why:

1.
A number of sections speak specifically to a vote of the owners being required. E.g. amendment of the covenants, amendment of the bylaws, increasing the assessment by such-and-such amount, selling HOA-owned land, special assessment, and budget disapproval. In contracts, when a contract makes an express reference to one matter, then other matters are excluded. The legal principle is known as expressio unius est exclusio alterius. In application here, because several sections say the owners have the power to do xyz, this means the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions.

2.
In the bylaws is this:

Section 6.1. Powers. The Board of Directors shall have power to:
...
(c) Exercise for the Association all powers, duties and authority vested in or delegated to this Association and
not reserved to the membership by other provisions of these Bylaws, the Articles of Incorporation or the
Declaration;


(underlined emphasis added by ElleN)

This means the owners cannot override board decisions unless the Bylaws, AoI or Declaration expressly give owners this right.

Anyone unhappy with this reality needs to remember that owners unhappy with a board decision always have the recourse of either a recall or electing new directors at the annual meeting.


thanks, your reasoning makes sense. I retyped the docs because I wanted them to be searchable, even if I was the only one to use the search feature. Also they fit on 19 pages now vs 40 pages before so they seem less intimidating and cheaper to print up is a side bonus.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/24/2023 11:04 AM
I retyped the docs because I wanted them to be searchable, even if I was the only one to use the search feature.
Attaway. I did the same with one of my HOA's (unsearchable) Bylaws, marking them with a watermark directing readers to check anything they say on the searchable version with the original, unsearchable version.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I converted an original PDF of our Covenants and Bylaws to MS Word. I had to correct a few things but overall it worked well. This allowed me to add changes and show old verbiage and new. Being able to search the docs is very helpful.

On the first page of the conversion, in large bold type I added: This is a converted version and should be used as a reference only. The original PDF copy is the legal version.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Like most HOAs, when the members self declare the association is a democracy, someone has to explain it isn’t.
JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/24/2023 12:12 PM
Like most HOAs, when the members self declare the association is a democracy, someone has to explain it isn’t.

actually no. we explain the board tries to be as democratic as possible. Amending the bylaws will ensure that.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
I disagree somewhat with Elle and Tim. The owners can vote on whatever they want, and that becomes an act of the membership and does override the board. An act of the members is similar to an act (vote) of the board taken at a board meeting. An act of the members is legal and has meaning.

However, there are many exceptions, and it may end up to be basically the same as indicated by Elle and Tim.

Consider NC nonprofit Act:
"§ 55A-7-23. Voting requirements. (a) Unless this Chapter, the articles of incorporation, or the bylaws require a greater vote or voting by class, if a quorum is present, the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes cast is the act of the members. "

So yes, this is a real legal thingy. IMO it is not limited to Tim's list or Elle's references in your governing docs, because it is in the law and is expressly authorized by your documents and therefore is not excluded.

Keep in mind that the board can override it (usually) and refuse to go ahead with it. (The owners can override the board and the board can override the owners. Maybe we need a different word than override.) There is nothing forcing the board, or the officers, or manager or delegated person to implement it. They can ignore it for the most part.

Also, an act of the members is not valid if it violates or conflicts with the law, CCRs or bylaws. On those grounds the board or officers can refuse to implement it.

The wording that you quoted says: "Except as provided otherwise in [your documents]...". The field of flowers proposal probably involves spending money (what doesn't?), and your bylaws usually have detailed procedures for the budget or revising the budget that require board approval. So just about any spending is "provided otherwise" in your documents and the board can ignore spending on the project.

Was the wording of the vote an act, or just a preference vote or request?

All of this is my theoretical musing.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/24/2023 2:43 PM
[underlined emphasis by ElleN] I disagree somewhat with Elle and Tim. The owners can vote on whatever they want, and that becomes an act of the membership and does override the board. An act of the members is similar to an act (vote) of the board taken at a board meeting. An act of the members is legal and has meaning.

However, there are many exceptions, and it may end up to be basically the same as indicated by Elle and Tim.

Consider NC nonprofit Act:
"§ 55A-7-23. Voting requirements. (a) Unless this Chapter, the articles of incorporation, or the bylaws require a greater vote or voting by class, if a quorum is present, the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes cast is the act of the members. "
In my opinion, this merely states one of several criteria for an owners' vote on a motion to count as a "motion lawfully passed."

Statute sections are to be read so as to harmonize, meaning result in logical consistency. Note the NC Nonprofit Corp statute section 55A-8-01 (b):

All corporate powers shall be exercised by or under the authority of, and the affairs of the corporation managed under the direction of, its board of directors, except as otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation.

Similarly note the NC Planned Comm statute 47F-3-103 (a) and (b):
b>
(a) Except as provided in the declaration, in the bylaws, in subsection (b) of this section, or in other provisions of this Chapter, the executive board may act in all instances on behalf of the association. ...

(b) The executive board may not act unilaterally on behalf of the association to amend the declaration (G.S. 47F-2-117), to terminate the planned community (G.S. 47F-2-118), or to elect members of the executive board or determine the qualifications, powers and duties, or terms of office of executive board members (G.S. 47F-3-103(e)), but the executive board may unilaterally fill vacancies in its membership for the unexpired portion of any term. Notwithstanding any provision of the declaration or bylaws to the contrary, the lot owners, by a majority vote of all persons present and entitled to vote at any meeting of the lot owners at which a quorum is present, may remove any member of the executive board with or without cause, other than a member appointed by the declarant.


Using JeffT2's reasoning, I do not think it is possible to "harmonize" the statute section he cites and the ones I cite.

Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/24/2023 2:43 PM
Keep in mind that the board can override it (usually) and refuse to go ahead with it. (The owners can override the board and the board can override the owners. Maybe we need a different word than override.) There is nothing forcing the board, or the officers, or manager or delegated person to implement it. They can ignore it for the most part.
You seem to be saying (suggesting?) that a court would enforce (as lawful) all votes by the owners that denote an owners' vote to try to reverse an otherwise lawful board decision.

I maintain that a court would enforce (as lawful) an owners' vote only under certain, express and specific circumstances pertaining to owners' powers, with statutes and/or the HOA's governing documents providing those certain, express and specific circumstances.

Happy to agree to disagree.

Related aside: I agree with DeanJ's comment that, "Like most HOAs, when the members self declare the association is a democracy, someone has to explain it isn’t."
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/24/2023 10:54 AM
WendyM5, wow, and what you attached is searchable too. Thank you, ma'am.

Your HOA's gov documents do indeed say the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions. Here is why:

1.
A number of sections speak specifically to a vote of the owners being required. E.g. amendment of the covenants, amendment of the bylaws, increasing the assessment by such-and-such amount, selling HOA-owned land, special assessment, and budget disapproval. In contracts, when a contract makes an express reference to one matter, then other matters are excluded. The legal principle is known as expressio unius est exclusio alterius. In application here, because several sections say the owners have the power to do xyz, this means the owners do not have some kind of general power to throw out board decisions.

2.
In the bylaws is this:

Section 6.1. Powers. The Board of Directors shall have power to:
...
(c) Exercise for the Association all powers, duties and authority vested in or delegated to this Association and
not reserved to the membership by other provisions of these Bylaws, the Articles of Incorporation or the
Declaration;


(underlined emphasis added by ElleN)

This means the owners cannot override board decisions unless the Bylaws, AoI or Declaration expressly give owners this right.

Anyone unhappy with this reality needs to remember that owners unhappy with a board decision always have the recourse of either a recall or electing new directors at the annual meeting.



I understand your logic, but I am curious what you believe the owners can do with 70% of the vote whenever they have a quorum. It seems that your interpretation would mean…nothing.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I think what some are saying and believing is that a majority of owners can simply overturn any rule, regulation, Covenant, Bylaw properly established via a group action vote. Wrongo folks. It is not that simple. Can it be done? Yes but there are procedures to follow.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/24/2023 8:16 PM
I think what some are saying and believing is that a majority of owners can simply overturn any rule, regulation, Covenant, Bylaw properly established via a group action vote. Wrongo folks. It is not that simple. Can it be done? Yes but there are procedures to follow.

I don’t think anyone here is jumping to conclusions. We’re all trying to interpret the bylaws as written.

The bylaws state the members can make an action by establishing a quorum, then 70% of those attending voting in favor of the action. We’re trying to figure out what the action can be.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 12/24/2023 8:25 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/24/2023 8:16 PM
I think what some are saying and believing is that a majority of owners can simply overturn any rule, regulation, Covenant, Bylaw properly established via a group action vote. Wrongo folks. It is not that simple. Can it be done? Yes but there are procedures to follow.


I don’t think anyone here is jumping to conclusions. We’re all trying to interpret the bylaws as written.

The bylaws state the members can make an action by establishing a quorum, then 70% of those attending voting in favor of the action. We’re trying to figure out what the action can be.

One of the most common misunderstandings is it a % of those in attendance at a "meeting" or a % of all owners. Let us assume 50% to change a Bylaw. I say typically it is 50% Of ALL MEMBERS not just 50% of those in attendance to change a Bylaw.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 12/24/2023 8:25 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/24/2023 8:16 PM
I think what some are saying and believing is that a majority of owners can simply overturn any rule, regulation, Covenant, Bylaw properly established via a group action vote. Wrongo folks. It is not that simple. Can it be done? Yes but there are procedures to follow.


I don’t think anyone here is jumping to conclusions. We’re all trying to interpret the bylaws as written.

The bylaws state the members can make an action by establishing a quorum, then 70% of those attending voting in favor of the action. We’re trying to figure out what the action can be.

One of the most common misunderstandings is it a % of those in attendance at a "meeting" or a % of all owners. Let us assume 50% to change a Bylaw. I say typically it is 50% Of ALL MEMBERS not just 50% of those in attendance to change a Bylaw.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 12/24/2023 8:05 PM

I understand your logic, but I am curious what you believe the owners can do with 70% of the vote whenever they have a quorum. It seems that your interpretation would mean…nothing.
I hear you. Your question appears to be the same as what WendyM5 is asking in the first post, namely: What is the purpose of this bylaw that defines an "act of the Members"?

The following is my take.

I see the NC Nonprofit Corporation Act has a similar section:

§ 55A-7-23. Voting requirements.
(a) Unless this Chapter, the articles of incorporation, or the bylaws require a greater vote or voting by class, if a quorum is present, the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes cast is the act of the members.
(b) ...


Several sections of the NC NP Corp Act speak of a vote by owners without specifying what the percentage must be for an owner's motion to pass. For example:

55A-8-55 (b) (4). Under some circumstances, owners appear to have the right to deny a director indemnification.

55A-10-03 (b), (d) and (e): Concerning finer points of amending the articles of incorporation.

55A-10-21 (b), (d) and (e): Concerning finer points of amending the bylaws.

55A-11-03 (d): Pertaining to a corporate merger.

55A-12-02 (d): Concerning sale of corporate assets

55A-14-02 (c), (d) and (e): Concerning dissolution of the corporation.

I believe the above sections are one reason why the statute and WendyM5's bylaws have a section defining what an "act of the members" is.

Furthermore, as long as one is questioning why a statute or bylaw says xyz when other statute/bylaw sections seem to make xyz superfluous, then to be logically consistent, I think one also has to ask about these statute sections:

NC Nonprofit Corp statute section 55A-8-01 (b)
All corporate powers shall be exercised by or under the authority of, and the affairs of the corporation managed under the direction of, its board of directors, except as otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation.

NC Planned Comm statute 47F-3-103 (a) and (b)
(a) Except as provided in the declaration, in the bylaws, in subsection (b) of this section, or in other provisions of this Chapter, the executive board may act in all instances on behalf of the association. ...

(b) The executive board may not act unilaterally on behalf of the association to amend the declaration (G.S. 47F-2-117), to terminate the planned community (G.S. 47F-2-118), or to elect members of the executive board or determine the qualifications, powers and duties, or terms of office of executive board members (G.S. 47F-3-103(e)), but the executive board may unilaterally fill vacancies in its membership for the unexpired portion of any term. Notwithstanding any provision of the declaration or bylaws to the contrary, the lot owners, by a majority vote of all persons present and entitled to vote at any meeting of the lot owners at which a quorum is present, may remove any member of the executive board with or without cause, other than a member appointed by the declarant.


If one interprets the bylaw in the first post and the NC Nonprofit statute's definition of "action of the members" to mean owners can reverse any board decision they want, then the above quoted statute sections (about board authority) does not make sense.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Until someone explains to change the documents a simple 51% vote doesn’t do it.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/25/2023 7:11 PM
Until someone explains to change the documents a simple 51% vote doesn’t do it.

???

Are you and John in the same thread as the rest of us?
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
My comment referenced members who say their HOA is a democracy. Most are not democracies with authority held by the board for about everything electing the board.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Our HOA membership seems concerned mostly with how money is spent.

It does seem unfair that 67% of the people at a meeting could vote to spend $1000 on a holiday party, and then the board could basically veto that decision. Or lets say 67% of the membership wants to spend $40,000 on a new basketball/tennis court and 3 people veto the will of 50 people.

One could argue that the membership then needs to veto the boards budget at the annual meeting, but most bylaws make that near impossible because the budget is often never presented beforehand and the 50% of ALL members needeed to reject it only means the board needs to make a new budget, it doesn't mean the new budget has to fit the will of the majority.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/26/2023 9:48 AM
Our HOA membership seems concerned mostly with how money is spent.

It does seem unfair that 67% of the people at a meeting could vote to spend $1000 on a holiday party, and then the board could basically veto that decision.
It does seem this way.

But then it also seems unfair that 67% of the people do not think that state statutes, the covenants, the AoI and the Bylaws count for anything, when it comes to this point.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/26/2023 9:48 AM
Or lets say 67% of the membership wants to spend $40,000 on a new basketball/tennis court and 3 people veto the will of 50 people.
It's not fair to the 33% who oppose this and who signed onto being a member of a HOA (yours) with a 75% requirement for amendment of the declaration.

Fact: If people want more control of boards, then the proper course of action is to seek amendment of the bylaws and covenants.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/26/2023 10:01 AM
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/26/2023 9:48 AM
Our HOA membership seems concerned mostly with how money is spent.

It does seem unfair that 67% of the people at a meeting could vote to spend $1000 on a holiday party, and then the board could basically veto that decision.
It does seem this way.

But then it also seems unfair that 67% of the people do not think that state statutes, the covenants, the AoI and the Bylaws count for anything, when it comes to this point.

Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/26/2023 9:48 AM
Or lets say 67% of the membership wants to spend $40,000 on a new basketball/tennis court and 3 people veto the will of 50 people.
It's not fair to the 33% who oppose this and who signed onto being a member of a HOA (yours) with a 75% requirement for amendment of the declaration.

Fact: If people want more control of boards, then the proper course of action is to seek amendment of the bylaws and covenants.

Agreed, but the governing docs should have never been written like that to begin with. Ours was 90% to make changes for the first 20 years. Even Satan has better contract terms. LOL. At least our bylaws are not that bad to change.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/26/2023 10:04 AM
Agreed, but the governing docs should have never been written like that to begin with. Ours was 90% to make changes for the first 20 years.
I saw this (90% requirement). It rhymes with declarations that say they can only be amended every 10 years (which out West, the courts have upheld). In other words, the people who write Declarations (developers and lawyers alike) think stability of the declaration tends to be a good thing.

Why have so many developers gone this route? Because the lawyers have found such provisions have no effect on whether someone buys into a HOA or not? Whence they apply the adage, "If it ain't broke, do not fix it."

I think you are doing a fine job, even if you and I do not always agree.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Let’s assume a quorum is 50%, and the community has 100 homes. 67% of 50 is 34 people or just of 1/3 of the owners.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/26/2023 6:01 PM
Let’s assume a quorum is 50%, and the community has 100 homes. 67% of 50 is 34 people or just of 1/3 of the owners.

lets say 2/3rd of americans vote during a presidnetial election and there are only 2 major parties, Dem and Repub.
lets say that about half vote D and about half vote for R.
That means the winning president only got 1/3 of the total possible vote.
Lets not just say that, let look at voting records to see that is what actually happens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections

so you are saying the way we elect presidents is also deeply flawed?
whats' your point?

vis ta vie
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/26/2023 6:01 PM
Let’s assume a quorum is 50%, and the community has 100 homes. 67% of 50 is 34 people or just of 1/3 of the owners.

Dean
Typically amendments require a % of all owners, not just a % of those attending a meeting. Our docs are 51% of all owners to change a Bylaw and 67% of all members to change a Covenant.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/27/2023 2:31 PM
Posted By DeanJ on 12/26/2023 6:01 PM
Let’s assume a quorum is 50%, and the community has 100 homes. 67% of 50 is 34 people or just of 1/3 of the owners.


Dean
Typically amendments require a % of all owners, not just a % of those attending a meeting. Our docs are 51% of all owners to change a Bylaw and 67% of all members to change a Covenant.

just to be clear that is not the case for my HOA docs. it's only 50% of quorum to change bylaws.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/27/2023 2:35 PM

just to be clear that is not the case for my HOA docs. it's only 50% of quorum to change bylaws.
In https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/363027/view/topic/Default.aspx, you said your bylaws are silent on how to amend the bylaws. The NC HOA statute is also silent on how to amend the bylaws. That leaves the NC Nonprofit Corp statute. The NC NP corp statute says in part this:


55A-10-21. Amendment by directors and members.
(a) If the corporation has members entitled to vote thereon, then, unless this Chapter, the
articles of incorporation, bylaws, the members (acting pursuant to subsection (b) of this section),
or the board of directors (acting pursuant to subsection (c) of this section) require a greater vote or
voting by class, an amendment to a corporation's bylaws to be adopted shall be approved:
(1) By the board or in lieu thereof in writing by the number or proportion of
members entitled under G.S. 55A-7-02(a)(2) to call a special meeting to
consider such amendment;
(2) By the members entitled to vote thereon by two-thirds of the votes cast or a
majority of the votes entitled to be cast on the amendment, whichever is less;
and
(3) In writing by any person or persons whose approval is required by a provision
of the articles of incorporation authorized by G.S. 55A-10-30.


Here is where readers once again get to reconcile that stuff about "act of the members" (in your bylaws and in the NC NP Corp statute) and what the bylaws and statute say elsewhere about the powers of owners.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
My mistake 2/3rd of quorum is needed for my HOA to change bylaws. or 50% of the entire membership.
Getting 2/3rd of quorum will be easy. Anytime we have done a survey on reducing board power we easily get 80to 90% of membership voting for that.

vis ta vie

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