Abusive members

Hello, I am on the board of director of a 96 unit complex in Minnesota. Since 1982 the HOA has increased the dues by 0% to 5% annually, averaging 2.5% over the past 40 years. Many updates and repairs have been neglected because the dues go toward the operating budget and the Reserves has never topped $200,000. Now, with a new board, we need a $500,000 rubber roof. We have approved an assessment of $3,700 per unit to $6,000 per unit, dependent on the unit size per our governing documents. Traditionally the board meetings are attended by the board and 6-10 home owners. After the announcement of the assessment we had about 40 homeowners at the December meeting. We have received threats of vandalism from one owner (I'll rip out all the flowers in the garden and spray water all over the garage.) Another owner refuses to abide by meeting protocol, raises her voice, interrupts others who are talking, and is overall obnoxious and disruptive and exceedingly arrogant; she knows more than anyone on the board and anyone from the property management company. How do we handle these 2 trouble causers? Most of the homeowners are understanding of our current situation and supportive of the board. What are your thoughts?

Glad to hear most owners understand the situation, Christine. Remember that these are meetings of the Board. Owners have no right to say anything* while the Board is conducting the business of the HOA. Many states require an open forum, so ther are rules in many HOAs about them.

I've posted the below several times to this forum as it's been very effective in my HOA for a long time. It clearly doesn't fit your HOA perfectly--especially if road meetings open to owners are not required in your Bylaws or state statutes. But tweak it any way your board wishes. Once tweaked, have the Board vote to accept these standards of owner behavior at board meetings.

BOARD MEETING CONDUCT
"We welcome homeowners as observers of the Board of Directors meetings. During the discussion and votes about agenda items, only those at the conference table may speak. Please remain silent so that we are able to hear one another and conduct our community’s business.

We invite your comments about the Board’s agenda items or other related topics at the beginning of every board meeting during our Open Forum. We hold a second Open Forum at the end of the board meetings for your additional input.

During Open Forum:
Raise your hand to be recognized.
State your name, unit # and tower.
Express your topic in concise, clear terms.
Convey only one topic each time you’re recognized to speak.
Limit your remarks to two minutes.
Never interrupt others while they speak.

As a Reminder:
Ideas for improving [our HOA] or concerns about Board policy are acceptable.
Berating any individual director, homeowner, or manager will not be tolerated.
We ask that maintenance items be reported to management outside of meetings.

Please realize that the Board or Management may not be able to respond to your Open Forum remarks without research. Board deliberation or votes on non-agenda items, per Calif. Civil Code 4920, cannot occur on the spot. The Board will consider these for a future agenda.

Thank you for your interest in our shared community!"

If the woman will not comply. 1st step. The presider instructs the woman to not speak until open forum. 2. If she refuses, and this worked for me, an average-sized person, stand up and approach her and tell her to stop talking until the proper time. 3. The presider stays standing and then demands." I must demand that you leave the meeting so we can conduct our business." 3. If she keeps on, give heartfelt apologies to the rest of the attendees, and state: "We must adjourn this meeting due to Ms Xxxx's violation of our rules.[ might try: "Perhaps if some of you ask her to stop talking, she'll comply."] Please enter this into the meeting minutes. The Board will reconvene in x minutes at a site that, unfortunately, must be closed to all of you due to her rudeness." And finish your business with good minutes at someone's home.

If NONE of this deters her at your next meeting, do consider hiring security. to me this. is a very last resort and will leave a bad feeling for all attendes.

Re the owner who threatened damage to the common area. I think ignore the first time. I think if there's a 2 threat, let him know that if he arrives through, he will be called to hearing and after due process potentially assessed an enforcement assessment (or whatever your docs call it) for the damage he did. He also will be denied common area privileges (if permitted by your docs and you have any to deny ) for some period of time.

IF the special assessment is or does become a problem for many owners, best practices are to hold a Town Hall where the relevant experts on the topic explain to owners the need, the cost, how it works with your finances, etc. In these setting a director, perhaps the president, is the host to introduce the experts and to field Q & A from attendees. Our HOA seems to hold a couple a year for big topics and offers pastries and coffee to entice owners to show up.

Christine,
Look like you are very lucky to have ElleN and Kerry give you perfect advice. I am sure you will hear more of the same from others, but I think they have covered most all of the bases.

You did not mention who presides over your meetings. It is usually the president but, in some cases, if you do not have a strong leader, they allow the Property Manager to run the meetings. Whoever is running the meetings needs to be strong and take charge of the room if not the loudest voice will take charge. I would advise before the next scheduled meeting the board meets in executive session to discuss this situation and all get on the same page if that is possible. Weakness invites bullies so don't be weak.

I don't think a directors approaching a person is using "physical intimidation." I certainly did not suggest getting in their face. In my opinion, it simply means "I mean business." When I did this, I probably took 4-5 steps toward the violator--leaving me a dozen feet away-- a male twice my weight and several inches taller. He did leave the room and those in attendance appeared visibly relieved.

Oh, hey--I should have rolled up my sleeves while approaching him!

The first move here might be to stand up to direct your comments to the violator. This approach is even recommended in Robert's Rules--standing up to call a point of order, etc.

My main point is that hiring a guard is a last resort-- and demonstrates weakness by the Board-- many steps can be taken before that.

Quite honestly, hire one or two off-duty police officers or security guards to attend the meetings. When the offenders interrupt the meeting, you
have them removed from the meeting location.

Do your governing documents have any clauses to issue violations to people that disrupt an official proceeding? Perhaps your board
needs to address that. As for your other issues, neglecting proper reserve funds for so many years brings you to this dilemma.

We have the same problem. Past boards never raised assessments, had a reserve account, or planned for maintenance. Now they raise assessments 20%/year plus wanted us to vote for a 57% increase, plus want a special assessment of $8,000. And all we have is roads and wildland greenbelt. So we have to pay for all our neighbors' past debt and all future debt - all on our shoulders. It's no wonder they are mad. Never an excuse for threats or violence but you need to understand the unfairness of it all and look for alternatives.

-- Why you think someone smaller and physically weaker could not hurt another is baffling.

-- Some people (men and women alike) know that if another person is attacking them, they must not go on the offense.

-- A portion of domestic violence victims are in fact men attacked by either their wives or female partners.
You do not know the entire picture here. That you would call boards 'weak' and so try to bully them into not taking steps to ensure safety once again demonstrates that you are among the Captain Queegs of HOA Land.

To all boards: Safety first.

Spoken with the arrogance and disdain for member serfs characteristic of boards we love to hate.

Sometimes a new board member decides to change the maintenance standards and convinces other board members it's the smart thing to do. No way to have foreseen that by reading the docs. Your attitude is not improving.

I didn't bait and switch; our board did all of that.

You're off the deep end, here, elle. It's a huge stretch to say that standing and walking a few steps towards someone who's many feet away shows the potential to "hurt" someone.

More, the OP says ZERO about concerns for anyone's "safety" during the meetings. The owner-woman's non-stop mouth can be halted in many ways as shown above without spending extra funds and making a board meeting look like a danger zone.

Michael's contribution about MN looks worthwhile to check out, Christine re: the guy who threatens to damage common areas.

I also don't agree that many buyers are "not smart enough to read the disclosure documents." Your elitism, elle, shows up again.

Buyers often are unaware of or ignorant about the importance of carefully reading every page of the closing documents. This has nothing to do with being "smart enough."

Nonsense. The sole reason for walking towards someone like you describe is to physically intimidate It's about assault, meaning causing someone to apprehend harm, and not actual harm. This is not what I posted and certainly does not capture the meaning of what I posed.A distinction without a difference. It was their responsibility to read the disclosures. That's why HOA disclosure statements are required in California and elsewhere. Doh.

This is WHAT you wrote, elle, about buyers, "They are mad because they were not smart enough to actually read the HOA disclosure documents..."

I say many buyers are plenty "smart enough" but do not know what they do not know. In other words, many buyers have no knowledge about assessing reserves or, as Terri noted, that there is even such a thing as "reserves." I knew nothing about them in the 3 HOAs I bought into over the years.

AND, realtors, and others who make a living off of real estate sales have NO motivation to educate prospective buyers. It is in the self-interest of several involved in a sale to keep buyers ignorant. This has nothing to do with whether buyers are "smart enough." Being uneducated, ignorant, or uninformed about HOAs is NOT the same thing as "not being smart enough."

Then, too there are Boards that do their best to keep owners uniformed, ignorant and in the dark about what is "really" going on in their HOAs. Secret meetings, discussions among a quorum so that an open board meeting becomes just a rubber-stamping session with NO information conveyed are only a few ways that Board CAN keep owners uneducated.

Elle also wrote: "I think it is critical that readers here see how HOA/COA directors think (or sometimes, do not think)." How your short-lived board service educated you in the ways of most Boards, as if they're a homogeneous population-- where each board thinks the same way as everyone on other Boards is completely wrong headed.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard "but my realtor told me" and "but the person that I bought from told me".

Look back. This is not what I wrote "about buyers." It is what I wrote in response to TerriS6's comment, about her HOA's owners who are mad about reserve funding; assessment increases; special assessments; and the like.You have a right to your opinion that it is not critical that readers here see how HOA/COA directors think (or sometimes, do not think). I have a much higher opinion of the value of HOATalk.

In response to John C46, My experience in buying my condo (Minnesota) was that I was not allowed to look at the HOA finances until after I made an offer and it was accepted. THEN I could see the HOA information and rescind my offer if I did not like the way the HOAs looked. Not a great plan for the buyer. Christine

In response to John C46, My experience in buying my condo (Minnesota) was that I was not allowed to look at the HOA finances until after I made an offer and it was accepted. THEN I could see the HOA information and rescind my offer if I did not like the way the HOAs looked. Not a great plan for the buyer. Christine