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NormaB3 (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
Hoa in Florida. 5 member board. Posted meeting on 12/13/23 agenda stated discussion of Accounting Service. When presented to the members present we discovered it was a management company.Board members voted to accept. There was no input from members. Two members have since rescinded their votes. The third. Member was replaced by ballot at yearly election. New member not in favor of affirmative vote by board. Board President has refused to state conditions of contract and whether he has signed yet. Can this be legal under Florida law.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NormaB3 on 12/18/2023 7:13 AM
Hoa in Florida. 5 member board. Posted meeting on 12/13/23 agenda stated discussion of Accounting Service. When presented to the members present we discovered it was a management company.
I do not think this is necessarily a problem.
Quote:
Posted By NormaB3 on 12/18/2023 7:13 AM
Board members voted to accept. There was no input from members.
If you mean owners gave no input, then that's on the owners, since per FS 720 they have a right to speak during board meetings, pursuant to "reasonable rules" the board adopts.
Quote:
Posted By NormaB3 on 12/18/2023 7:13 AM
Two [directors?] have since rescinded their votes. The third [director?] was replaced by ballot at yearly election. New [director?] not in favor of affirmative vote by board. Board President has refused to state conditions of contract and whether he has signed yet. Can this be legal under Florida law.
Per FS 720, the HOA cannot refuse a formal records request for a copy of any active contract. Submit a formal records request.
NormaB3 (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
There was a lot of input but he stated board had all voted and adjourned the meeting while one of the members was speaking. Another board member said we ask too many questions!
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
NormaB3, I cannot finger any violations of the law or possibly bylaws at this point. Given the latter, if you and other owners do not like the board's style, then the remedy is to campaign to elect new directors.

Also the directors can remove the president (from his office as president, but not as a director) at any time. If things are so bad, why don't the other directors replace the president?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Aren't you on the Board, Norma?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Sounds chaotic, but that doesn't mean anything was illegal. Boards make decisions on who to hire, including the community manager. If the board knows what they're doing, they'll want to hear about issues that homeowners are having with a particular manager - and this may result in the board looking for a new manager. But homeowners don't have a vote in the final decision.

And managers often provide accounting services to HOAs. That's business as usual. In fact, even HOAs that are largely self-managed will often hire others to provide bookkeeping services, do the taxes, and handle other financial tasks.

NormaB3 (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
I am a former board member
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
It appears the agenda properly announced consideration of accounting services. HOA management companies provide accounting services.- it is one of the most important services they perform for HOAs.

Member input is not a requirement for board approvals.

The Board voted to accept, 2 members can’t walk out and rescind their vote.

A member placed on a ballot has no standing in the matter until elected.

The president isn’t required to answer your questions.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/18/2023 8:01 PM

The Board voted to accept, 2 members can’t walk out and rescind their vote.
Under certain conditons, HOA Board directors most certainly can, and sometimes should, rescind their vote.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
You can’t unring a bell. The vote was taken and recorded. If they desire to reverse their previous vote, a new motion has to be brought at a Board meeting, with notice contained in the agenda in some states, and a new vote taken.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/19/2023 4:11 PM
You can’t unring a bell. The vote was taken and recorded. If they desire to reverse their previous vote, a new motion has to be brought at a Board meeting, with notice contained in the agenda in some states, and a new vote taken.
Hence the bell can be unrung.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
No, you can ring it again.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Deaner, yeah, we agree that under certain conditons, HOA Board directors most certainly can, and sometimes should, rescind their vote.
SusanO3 (California)
Posts: 163
Posted:
I think this went wrong at the agenda level. According to poster agenda said "Accounting Service", when what the board were doing was voting to change management companies. I think that should have been clear in the agenda item so members can decide if they want to come to the meeting.

We pay our management company $27,000 pa for property and accounting services. If our Board were going to make a change as big as this I'd like to think we would have an open meeting so members can be informed and understand why the Board think the change is necessary. At the end of the day decision will be made by Board vote but I do think communication with members before something like this is worth devoting time to. Sue
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Dean is correct in both his posts. re: the procedure to "reconsider" a board decision made earlier in the meeting. In that case the motion to reconsider must come from a director who approved it at the meeting. A director cannot simply say at the meeting: "I change my mind." There must be a motion that is approved by a majority, and then a new vote on the topic. No notice is needed in this case because it already was an agenda time of business.

This must be on a board meeting agenda in states that require one/one posted in advance. A motion to "rescind" is used at a subsequent meeting and can be made by any director. If approved, the Board votes anew on the item of business. In many years on my Board, this is only the only the 2nd time we counted on Robert's Rules to guide us, and this particular procedure has been used several times over the years here.

(Robert's Not required for our Board meetings. The 1st time was a motion to correct minutes after they'd been already approved at a board meeting. The prez insisted they can never be corrected. Robert's, sensibly, says yes, they can.)

Is "Deaner" some name that has some meaning to you, elle?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Whatever it takes to get DJ to admit that this is woefully inaccurate and highly misleading:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/18/2023 8:01 PM
It appears the agenda properly announced consideration of accounting services. HOA management companies provide accounting services.- it is one of the most important services they perform for HOAs.

Member input is not a requirement for board approvals.

The Board voted to accept, 2 members can’t walk out and rescind their vote.
Boards can, and at times do, "undo" their decisions. Assuming no contract was signed, and upon learning new information that changes directors' minds, this is the way it should be.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
yes, Boards can "undo" contract if not yet underway, but there is a procedure as I noted above. OR a board can craft its own procedure.

Board members may not simply jump up and say "I wanna vote no, now" The vote is over. A new motion would need to be made at minimum, i.e., the bell would need to be rung again.

I can't remember specifics, Elle, but have noticed some areas where Dean has been wrong in previous posts.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
yes, Boards can "undo" contracts if not yet underway, but there is a procedure as I noted above. OR a board can craft its own procedure.

Board members may not simply jump up and say "I wanna vote no, now" The vote is over. A new motion would need to be made at minimum, i.e., the bell would need to be rung again.

I can't remember specifics, Elle, but have noticed some areas where Dean has been wrong in previous posts.

Form what Norma wrote, we don't even know if there IS a contract.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/20/2023 10:19 AM
I can't remember specifics, Elle, but have noticed some areas where Dean has been wrong in previous posts.
What's your point? You have been wrong. I have been wrong.

Every regular here has made mistakes. Own 'em (or not). Move on.

As for hypothetical Director Smith, still in a board meeting where a vote just happened, jumping up right after the board vote and declaring, "I want to reverse my vote" (perhaps because Smith just realized he was mistaken about xyz): I say if the stakes are high, the board had better (1) figure out the correct procedures to lawfully allow a "re-do"; (2) not take steps (like sign a contract) that would mean a new vote could not be taken; and (3) ultimately let the director vote according to his/her changed mind. Else liability concerns arise.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, some procedures must be followed as both Dean & I insist. The ones suggested by Robert's Rules are efficient and effective. Ther just be some sort of motions and votes so that the meeting minutes accurately reflect board decisions.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/20/2023 10:38 AM
Yes, some procedures must be followed as both Dean & I insist.
?

"Dean" did not even know votes could be reversed until I dragged it out of him.

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