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JimF13 (Minnesota)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Question regarding hail damage to a 51 unit project consisting of single family detached, 2 and 3 unit buildings in a Common Interest Community # xxx Planned Community. The HOA insurers has determine all roofs need to be replaced, the association has a 5% Wind/Hail Deductible which is greater then the costs of the actual cost, hence the homeowners will be paying for the roof replacement. HOA board is sending out a loss assessment letter dividing the cost equally to all owners. The costs of the unit roof replacement varies by as much as 75% from the smaller simpler roof design to the more elaborate roof. Is there any guidance anyone can provide for this situation, multiple homeowners want the cost allocated to the building were as the board want to divided the bill by the number of units.

Any thoughts would be appreciated
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If your governing documents specify that costs are to be shared equally for the common elements, then that is the way it would be.

However, I think you misunderstand the 5% deductible.

A 5% deductible would be if the total costs are $5,000 then your deductible would be $250.
However, if your policy specifies a dollar amount of for the deductible, then it would be that dollar amount.

My suggestion is to reread the policy and talk with your insurance agent.
JimF13 (Minnesota)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply, the 5% deductible for Wind/Hail is based on the total value of the project, approx. $1.5M deductible.

Association docs state: Any Common Expense associated with the maintenance, repair, or replacement of the Limited Common Elements, if any, shall be assessed exclusively against the unit or units to which the limited common element is allocated, equally or by actual cos per Unit or such other reasonable allocation as many be approved by the Board.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I live in a townhouse community and our roofs are considered common elements because the units share the same roof (our buildings have 4 units). About 20 years ago, we also had a hailstorm that damaged some, but not all the roofs, so our insurance company decided to replace all of them, since they were already long in the tooth.

Financially, it was great for us because our reserves wouldn't be enough to pay for replacement- better to pay an insurance deductible than hit everyone with a special assessment. Our reserves have improved a little, but I still fear we may wind up with a special assessment when the time comes to replace the because we still dont have what we need (long story that begins and ends with a huge amount of delinquencies).

You don't say what your situation is regarding reserves, but in addition to Tim's suggestion that you review your master insurance, you need to take a look at your reserve study and your budget to see if funding recommendations have been followed. If your study is older than 5 years, you're working with outdated information and need to get an updated one as soon as you can.

It sounds like you have a budget shortfall somewhere and so a special assessment is the best option to address all the buildings now instead of waiting for more damage from something else and then instead of, say three buildings now, than be faced with 20 five years later. You'd still need a special assessment anyway. And with insurance premiums skyrocketing everywhere, you don't want to risk the company dropping your community and then you'd have little to fall back on.

I think your board should call a special homeowners meeting to explain the situation in more detail, with the numbers. If homeowners have a better option, that would be the time to suggest it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
“The HOA insurers has determine all roofs need to be replaced, the association has a 5% Wind/Hail Deductible which is greater then the costs of the actual cost, “

Could you try to rephrase this? I think some of us are having trouble understanding what you’re saying? How can 5% of the total cost be more than the total cost? Perhaps if you gave the actual numbers it might help us.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply, the 5% deductible for Wind/Hail is based on the total value of the project, approx. $1.5M deductible.

Association docs state: Any Common Expense associated with the maintenance, repair, or replacement of the Limited Common Elements, if any, shall be assessed exclusively against the unit or units to which the limited common element is allocated, equally or by actual cos per Unit or such other reasonable allocation as many be approved by the Board.

It certainly sounds as if the board can and should allocate expenses based on the individual roofs.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I see it the way that David does based on the words in your "document." Base the location on the cost to replace each roof. What is the name of this document?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
[snip stuff I hope others sort out. It is clear as mud to me at present.]
Association docs state: Any Common Expense associated with the maintenance, repair, or replacement of the Limited Common Elements, if any, shall be assessed exclusively against the unit or units to which the limited common element is allocated, equally or by actual cos per Unit or such other reasonable allocation as many be approved by the Board.
Please quote the part of the Declaration that indicates the roofs are limited common elements.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
the 5% deductible for Wind/Hail is based on the total value of the project, approx. $1.5M deductible.
Oh, I think I maybe see. By "project," he means the total value of all buildings. See the first sentence in the first post, referring to a "51 unit project consisting of single family detached, 2 and 3 unit buildings."

1.5 million / 0.05 = $30 million.

The $30 million refers to the total value of all 51 units.

Such is my take at the moment.

The cost of replacing the roofs is surely less than this deductible.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/12/2023 4:45 PM
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
the 5% deductible for Wind/Hail is based on the total value of the project, approx. $1.5M deductible.
Oh, I think I maybe see. By "project," he means the total value of all buildings. See the first sentence in the first post, referring to a "51 unit project consisting of single family detached, 2 and 3 unit buildings."

1.5 million / 0.05 = $30 million.

The $30 million refers to the total value of all 51 units.

Such is my take at the moment.

The cost of replacing the roofs is surely less than this deductible.


Okay, now I see it.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 1:51 PM
Question regarding hail damage to a 51 unit project consisting of single family detached, 2 and 3 unit buildings in a Common Interest Community
JimF13, is the regular assessment notably different from one unit to another? By any chance is the regular assessment calculated based on percent allocation figures given in the Declaration, with said percent allocation based on something like square footage of each unit / total square footage of all units.

If yes, then this might have some bearing here.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Elle raises an interesting point. Please supply the exact wording that show that the roofs are "limited commons area."

So.. some individual buildings have in reality one roof that saves two or 3 units? Or is each unit's roof distinct from its neighbors? In my HOA, for instance, all 15 townhomes (of 200+ units total) are attached to other THs. But all have distinct roofs.

In. addition, IF as Elle asks, units are assessed using a sq. ft. variable approach, it might support each owner paying for the size/complexity of their roof. Take a good look though. Our condo project uses a sf variable for assessments but each size pays extra & differently only for gas, water, ext. insurance.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Kerry's latest points are indeed pretty much what are on my mind.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Are your monthly fees based on the budget / the number of units or based on the square footage of each unit. The particular construction of each unit and individual cost really doesn’t matter. HOAs by definition is socialism.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/12/2023 4:36 PM
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
[snip stuff I hope others sort out. It is clear as mud to me at present.]
Association docs state: Any Common Expense associated with the maintenance, repair, or replacement of the Limited Common Elements, if any, shall be assessed exclusively against the unit or units to which the limited common element is allocated, equally or by actual cos per Unit or such other reasonable allocation as many be approved by the Board.
Please quote the part of the Declaration that indicates the roofs are limited common elements.

That jumped out at me as well. Roofs are typically common elements. Limited common elements are things like patios or decks that are exclusively used by residents of the unit they're attached to. I haven't seen any CC&Rs for attached housing communities that define roofs as limited common elements. I could see it happening for detached housing, but haven't come across an example of this.

Assessing repairs for a deck against the unit it's attached to makes sense since wear and tear can be variable. Roofs are generally subject to the same amount of wear and tear, so variable assessments make no sense.

Another thing to look at is how the CC&Rs determine assessment amounts. If all homes are assessed equally, or if they're assessed based on a formula involving percentage of ownership, then the replacement cost for the roofs would be assessed and paid for the same way. This is how reserve funding works. Just because you have to replace things ahead of schedule shouldn't change how these things are assessed unless the CC&Rs explicitly mention this as an exception.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
AFAIC, CathyA3 said it well.
Quote:
Posted By JimF13 on 12/12/2023 2:06 PM
H
Association docs state: Any Common Expense associated with the maintenance, repair, or replacement of the Limited Common Elements, if any, shall be assessed exclusively against the unit or units to which the limited common element is allocated, equally or by actual cos per Unit or such other reasonable allocation as many be approved by the Board.
I am wondering if there is another section speaking to common elements that serve 'less than all units.'

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