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HOA coupons

Started by SheilaB7 • 29 replies • 531 views

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SheilaB7
Posts: 19
Posted:
At the end of each year we mail out or put under the owners doors a packet with any pertinent regarding the association along with payment coupons for the next year. We have decided not to do this because it is not cost effective and will be emailing them out. We have talked to the owner and they are happy with this decision since they do not need the coupons. Apparently our management company does not have the ability to send the payment coupons to only the owner it is suppose to go to due to their software. I suggested that in the packet we type up a letter listing the 4 sizes of units we have in the association and the dollar amounts associated with each unit size. Also adding that if anyone wanted a paper copy they could go to the office and pick one up or have it emailed. I can't seem to find a law that states we cannot do this. Is anyone aware of such law? Thank you
ElleN
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheilaB7 on 11/27/2023 4:03 PM
I can't seem to find a law that states we cannot do this.
Do you mean a hypothetical statute that states HOAs must send a coupon to each home showing how much it must pay each month (or possibly year) for the assessment?

Arizona has no such statute section.

The Az nonprofit corporate statute does have this sweet little section (essentially backing up what an Az HOA's bylaws, Articles of Inc and Declaration say, in my experience):

§ 10-3613 • MEMBER’S LIABILITY FOR DUES, ASSESSMENTS AND FEES
A. A member may become liable to the corporation for dues, assessments and
fees. A provision of the articles of incorporation, a provision of the bylaws or a
resolution adopted by the board authorizing or imposing dues, assessments
or fees does not, of itself, create liability for dues, assessments or fees. An
express or implied agreement, consent or acquiescence by the member is
necessary to create liability for dues, assessments or fees. A member is
deemed to have agreed to the liability if there exists at the time the member
becomes a member a provision of the articles of incorporation, a provision
of the bylaws, a provision of the declaration of a condominium or a planned
community or a resolution adopted by the board authorizing or imposing
dues, assessments or fees.

B. A home buyer may implicitly consent to liability for dues, assessments
and fees.

C. Unless the provision authorizing dues expressly limits the amount of the
dues, the amount and the member’s liability are subject to increase or
decrease.

If your Declaration and bylaws have no such provision (requiring a coupon be mailed), but instead say the assessment shall be ____ (typically, as determined by the budget), then IMO the board's only obligation here is to make sure owners know how much they owe. The emailing you describe appears to do this.
ElleN
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 11/27/2023 4:43 PM
Coupons are a much cheaper way to handle assessment billing. You could consider not sending them if they are on autopay or pay through BiillPay, as an envelope would not be needed. If you have a management company, they should be able to help with that process.

The problem with Elle's solution?? is how would a person know if the HOA actually received their payment?
How does an owner having a coupon book ensure the owner knows the HOA actually received their payment?

I think something got lost in translation here.
SheilaB7
Posts: 19
Posted:
We do have a management company and they cannot send out individual coupons with other documentations that needs to be sent. They have an old system and would have to manually send 118 emails to each owner with their specific coupon. We have 4 different size of units so each would be a different HOA amount. I wanted to be sure there was no law that stated we could not say in the email that goes to all 118 at once that if your unit was 1200 sq ft your new HOA dues would be $xxx and if your unit square footage is 1369 the new HOA dues would be $XXX; however if the owner wanted a hard copy or one emailed to them we could do that.
SheliaH
Posts: 6,967
Posted:
I doubt anyone has a law like this, and we aren't attorneys anyway. Did you ask your association attorney about this?

You said you talked to "the owner" - does that mean all of them? If so, and everyone's OK with the decision, I don't see an issue. I've paid my assessments online through my bank for over three years and still get coupons because we still have a small number who use checks.

Your suggestion about posting the assessments for each unit type is fine - people can always make copies of that and use it for paper checks or set the bill pay option at their own bank to pay the appropriate amount - do that once and you're OK for the upcoming year.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4
Posts: 20,986
Posted:
Sounds like the MC is giving an excuse. It's email. It can be done. It has to be done individually.
SheilaB7
Posts: 19
Posted:
We are waiting to hear back from the attorney to be sure. Yes, I have talked to the owners except for 2 as they have not responded. Everyone is fine with this and if they were not a hard copy will be available to them in the front office.

Since the mgmt office has to send one email to all owners it would be a generic email so to speak along the lines of units that have 1200 square feet your new HOA payment will be $600 etc. If you have any concerns or question please contact Accounting in the RCI office. If you desire a hard copy one will be available to you in the RCI office or can be emailed to you.
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
We never sent any coupons out. You are on the hook to pay regardless. We had a payment box at our front entrance at the mailboxes. We collected dues once a month. Had a sign up.

It is in the docs to pay. Plus many can arrange autopay. Excuses are made by those who do not pay. Ignorance only gets you so far. After that we Putin 6 months we lien. 1 year we discuss foreclosure. Having that policy in place worked the best
Former HOA President
LetA
Posts: 2,670
Posted:
Outlook can easily be provisioned to send out mass emails that won't have everyone's email on the list.
Mass emails can be sent individually and can be marked as recipient must acknowledge they received said email.
Sounds like the PMC is just being lazy.
ElleN
Posts: 4,405
Posted:
As an owner, I would not want to be paying for the time the MC goes through the email list, identifies which units are which size and so should be sent which assessment amount. Plus this approach increases the chance of an error.

A mass email showing the assessment for each size of unit is fine.

This should not have had to go to the HOA attorney, AFAIC.
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
Also a PM is not always privacy to email address. It is an option to share in many states. Also anything goes into a mailbox has to have a stamp on it. That adds up.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
No one. The PM is a sub contractor to the HOA. The HOA is NOT required to have your Social Security number or email address. You can OPT in or Volunteer your email address with the understanding once you do it can be shared upon request.

It's a good idea to provide up to date and accurate point of contact information but not all of it is required. A phone number and address should suffice.
Former HOA President
KerryL1
Posts: 14,519
Posted:
Melissa your last post may be true in some states, but we know it's not in your state orin many others. Care to cite your state's Corporations Code, Non-profit on this topic? No? I thought not.

If there's some sort of an "opt" clause, it's usually "opt out," and it's in reference to sharing a Membership List with Owners who might request it. Perhaps what you wrote was true in your state when you were prez decades ago.
SteveM9
Posts: 3,688
Posted:
Good grief.... just mail out a single piece of paper with 12 squares. Each square will have a payment amount and date. They can write in the address, account number, or whatever. The homeowner can mail the square in with the check, or cross it off, or whatever. It simply serves as a reminder to the homeowner.

Dont over complicate it with emails, not receiving emails, went to spam folder etc.... Mail it to the owner on record, with a stamp. Period.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,789
Posted:
I know they exist, but who is paying bills by check and a coupon in 2024?
LetA
Posts: 2,670
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheilaB7 on 11/27/2023 5:12 PM
We do have a management company and they cannot send out individual coupons with other documentations that needs to be sent. They have an old system and would have to manually send 118 emails to each owner with their specific coupon. We have 4 different size of units so each would be a different HOA amount. I wanted to be sure there was no law that stated we could not say in the email that goes to all 118 at once that if your unit was 1200 sq ft your new HOA dues would be $xxx and if your unit square footage is 1369 the new HOA dues would be $XXX; however if the owner wanted a hard copy or one emailed to them we could do that.

It's time for your PMC to join 2024.. I'm quite positive there is suitable accounting software available that can perform detailed tasks such as this.
LetA
Posts: 2,670
Posted:
If not emailing them their intended coupon, email them a link to the PMC website to the owners individual account
where they can print out the payment coupons from there.
MichaelS56
Posts: 875
Posted:
Isn't the Management company responsible for collecting fees? What does your contract with them say about collections?
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
Management company is hired on the HOA's behalf to handle that task of collecting dues. (If contracted to do so). Otherwise it is the HOA responsiblity to collect. Which is usually spelled out in the documents.
Former HOA President
WendyM5
Posts: 1,486
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/27/2023 8:25 PM
I know they exist, but who is paying bills by check and a coupon in 2024?

anyone that is smart enough to avoid $2 fees by using bank bill pay, which I'm guessing is 25% of the people in our neighborhood.

the ironic part is many HOA self management software works best with only online payments and it actually costs an HOA much more than a nominal $2 fee per payment to process checks. So from a financial perspective having the members pay a nominal fee Actually decreases over head expenses which in turn lowers their dues much more than $2/unit.
vis ta vie
WendyM5
Posts: 1,486
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 11/28/2023 8:19 AM
As an owner, I would not want to be paying for the time the MC goes through the email list, identifies which units are which size and so should be sent which assessment amount. Plus this approach increases the chance of an error.

A mass email showing the assessment for each size of unit is fine.

This should not have had to go to the HOA attorney, AFAIC.

if the MC was at all competent they would just do an email merge and thus beable to send out customized emails to each unit owner specifying what they need to pay. it would hardly take any more time. But given how overworked many portfolio managers are asking them to do anything, even something that saves them time in the long run is probably not realistic.
vis ta vie
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
Wendy you are applying what you think can happen. You are not dealing with reality. Many people do not give out their email addresses. Plus some states the HOA can restrict giving them out. It is not considered public in some situations with email address.

Our HOA accountant went by the lot number on the check. It did not matter the name not address outside of the HOA or in it came from. Lot numbers had to be written on the check. If did direct deposit then that too was set up specifically for that lot. A HOA or MC does not care where money comes from. Just if it paid.
Former HOA President
WendyM5
Posts: 1,486
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/28/2023 9:08 AM
Wendy you are applying what you think can happen. You are not dealing with reality. Many people do not give out their email addresses. Plus some states the HOA can restrict giving them out. It is not considered public in some situations with email address.

Our HOA accountant went by the lot number on the check. It did not matter the name not address outside of the HOA or in it came from. Lot numbers had to be written on the check. If did direct deposit then that too was set up specifically for that lot. A HOA or MC does not care where money comes from. Just if it paid.

those without email which is 1/3 in our HOA can get paper letters or the HOA can simply ask for the phone number and carrier to email them a free text message.
vis ta vie
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
Paper letter are not free. Who is sending the text? Are they showing up on the devices being sent to?
Former HOA President
WendyM5
Posts: 1,486
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/28/2023 9:54 AM
Paper letter are not free. Who is sending the text? Are they showing up on the devices being sent to?

dont know, dont care, just trying to provide possible solutions to help the poster, not answer yoru rhetroical unhelpful questions.
vis ta vie
MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734
Posted:
Well so far most of your advice is not recommended. It is usually an argument and hostage takes over of a post.
Former HOA President
AidylP1
Posts: 107
Posted:
I don't send out coupon books, only monthly statements, as dues for all of our associations are paid monthly. We send a statement and an envelope only to those who mail in a physical check. Those on BillPay or ACH have their statements emailed to them.

Clients can check their balance via their web portal, but to access it, an email address must be provided. 96% of our clients have provided their email addresses, with a couple at 100%.

BTW, we can email an unlimited number via our software at any time.

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