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MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Is there an HOA election guru or whisperer in the house?
Who can offer some ideas and insights? Yes, for free. At this point. Thank you.
This can also be a good refresher for the new year for all who will have elections and may want to run. Yes?

We are just 1 - one - week away from the deadline to turn in proxies so that I can, we hope, be elected to our HOA board and start turning the three-member panel around. Right now all 3 board members are in common talk "appointed." No one has been elected.

Here's is what we've done so far:

Social Media - We've used social media and will keep posting messages and informationt for the next six days, with posts about me and the need to elect and that we do NOT want an assessment for $400 each lot to buy us a $60K playground, until the deadline for the proxies. They must be at the management office by end of business on Friday, Dec 1.

Door-to-door canvassing - Two of us out of 12 "true believers for an election" did door-to-door canvassing today, and it was only mildly successful. We got 8 together. Eight out of a total of 150 lots. Ack.

And, yes, it's the day after Thanksgiving, not everyone is home and so forth, but this was an eye-opener and really tough.
We created a "first pass go visit them" list from names (eyeballs/they read) on Facebook posts around the board, the elction and we judged them "likely to sign the proxy." We ran the names through the assessor's office to get the addresses. (HOA does NOT share neighbor info with anyone!)

We also learned that there are at least 22 rentals out of 150 homes in the development, held by 3 trusts. That data informs, but that's tough to put in its place, too. Those neighbors can't vote. We have looked for the contact info of the trusts and it's going nowhere.
The management firm is NOT informing any of the owners of any of the candidates (so far only me) before the meeting!
This is a HUGE issue all on its own and a violation of our bylaws. We are calling them on that.
So the trust owners are "out there" and if they get no candidate info would not have info anywaywith which to exercise their 22 proxies, which would, of course, go a long way to get me elected! It may be their custom to NEVER exercise proxies or ballots. No way to know.

COMING -- Door Hanger Bags: We are making up door hanger bags with campaign flyer and proxy insde and going door-to-door with those in the next 2 days to all addresses that haven't already turned in proxy forms. Do these help? Work? It's too late to get card-stock door hangers (3 business days!) and they are not cheap, either ($60 to 100 for 200). So we're going to bags ($12 for 200). As I've noted elsewhere, any and all expenses come out of my bank account.

I've mused about signs at strategic corners, held by humans (kids recruited from the neighborhood) but also running out of time (works on the weekend, but the sun sets before 5) advising TIME TO SEND IN PROXIES. Have you used signs with humans?
Can't use signs in the dirt due to HOA rules!

Also, how can I convince all 12 of our "exec committee" and a few others who are friendly to the cause to hand over their paper proxies so we go into the meeting with as many as possible? I'd love to have 45 in hand and then any others at the meeting who didn't already "vote" can do so. Great. That's gravy. I'm wary of the people who promise to attend and then can't. Stuff comes up. Or they forgot to register to attend and so won't be admitted to the meeting.

What else do you do?

What else can you do to bump up proxy or ballot turn-in when you're down to a week?

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
No Guru here, but time is marching on and I want to share what worked for me with our HOA of 140 SFHs (last May 2023). I printed from my computer (not fancy & affordable) a letter explaining (non-accusatory) why I was rerunning for the Board (3 Directors). I folded each and applied a green VOTE sticker on each. A friend and I placed one at each door (not mailbox). Results were 60 (me), 25, 23, 20. We have cummulative voting. The KISS principle worked. Keep it simple Stupid(ouch!). Good luck.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
No Guru here, but time is marching on and I want to share what worked for me with our HOA of 140 SFHs (last May 2023). I printed from my computer (not fancy & affordable) a letter explaining (non-accusatory) why I was rerunning for the Board (3 Directors). I folded each and applied a green VOTE sticker on each. A friend and I placed one at each door (not mailbox). Results were 60 (me), 25, 23, 20. We have cummulative voting. The KISS principle worked. Keep it simple Stupid(ouch!). Good luck.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You've sent campaign mailings to the trust addresses, right?? Does WA statutes or your own governing documents require the HOA to provide any owner with a list of all addresses of Owners?????

Remind us: No electronic voting? No absentee voting? Only votes in person or by and proxies count?

As with Jackie who did such a fine job in her HOA, campaign flyers in doors also is how we candidates and our supporters campaigned for votes. With 25% absentee owners, we also sent out eye-catching mailers.

Where will this meeting be held? Why don't more owners attend in person?
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
Check your local registry of deeds, or whatever it’s called in your state. It will show beneficial owner/trustee and often an address. Title is usually public record. Check also with the tax authority. They will have the name and address. That, too, is often public record.

We also knocked on renters’s doors and asked them to contact their landlords. Some did.

We concentrated on the message of who the owners wanted to have controlling the association. Fortunately we did not need to argue over new amenities like a playground, which in our bylaws would have failed because it requires a supermajority.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Cannot find the USPS for the trusts.
Not listed on the County Assessor's online data base.
HOA management firm will not provide any info to anyone NOT on the board. No emails, no USPS addresses.

The voting for this election is done with a proxy vote and it's still, unfortunately, "paper-based."
You have to fill out the form and sign it and send it back via USPS or scan/email to the HOA management firm.

The night of the meeting, members who've not signed and turned in proxies can/will vote. That's by voice voting on the Zoom meeting.
The board is sticking with Zoom.

The meeting will be held one more time via Zoom. (Most of us are hoping it's the last such and COVID will remain in abeyance.

More owners don't attend - via Zoom or, earlier, in person - due to good old apathy. We know it's common in HOA neighborhoods.
For the most part, most of the time, there's nothing much happening. Nothing that the members
feel demands their attention or voice. Our total budget is just $87,000. We have no clubhouse, Pickleball courts, swimming pool.
We do have some lightly landscaped spots at entrances, a lot-size "park" (on which the playground is proposed to sit) that has lawn
and several benches and landscaping, greenbelt around the development (we are responsible or the trees being maintained) and two stormwater ponds. That's it.

Some 4 years ago, there was a major upset around adding more gravel to driveways. That's NOT allowed under CCRs and city
ordinances because we have little permeable dirt in the development (new standards!) and more gravel will only aggravate that. (Yes, rain
can slowly seep through, but it's more difficult.) And gravel parking on a lot that already has a 2-car driveway
frankly makes each of those homes look cheap and slovenly.
People came out for and against that. Last time we saw a huge attendance. Note: City ordinance and CCRs "won." Of course.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Thank you.

The flyer I've created is pretty much a letter, offers 3 main points why I'm running, does note we don't
need a $60,000 playground, but doesn't accuse the board (corporately) or any members of anything.

We clearly cannot mail any of the flyers/packets (doorhanger bags that we will fill today/tomorrow and deliver).
We have no budget!
And so far the entire copy job has been out of my bank account!

Your experience is inspiring and hopeful. Thank you for sharing!
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
We still use zoom. We would have even fewer people attending otherwise, because of work and other commitments. Experience has been mixed meetings rarely work.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
washington law states:
(b) An owner is entitled to receive a free annual electronic or
paper copy of the list retained under subsection (4)(c) of this
section from the association.

your board is clearly unlawfully withholding the list.
Send a certified letter stating that the meeting vote needs to be postponed 30 days after you get this list would be ideal.

Put VOTE NO on $60,000 park signs around the neighborhood

otherwise door to door will get best results.

your current board needs to be fired for pissing away money on a park I guarantee a small percentage will use.

vis ta vie
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Thank you!

I am checking re: asking for the list. Unsure of that status, if someone else on the "team" has asked for it, will ask for it or if I should. So far, what we know is that they have it and it's not available for anyone to see, no matter what the bylaws say about it being open 10 days before an election. Checking on that.

Signs! Yeah, signs are good but we have bylaws against signs. Although it's lightly enforced. No one barks about birthday signs or "new baby is home" signs or "no pet poop on this lawn, please" signs.

I like the idea of the certified letter if we truly can't get the list and a postponement of the meeting for another 30 days to Jan 4 2024. Thank you. This whole thing is so "not ready for prime time."
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Great advice from Wendy And so "giving" to show you WA law. Maybe Wendy can give the complete citation so you can show it to the PM. I think I recall there're 3 sets of statutes in WA, so I hope Wendy's citation applies to your HOA?

Yes, Michele, cite the law to the PM AND send the certified letter.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Here's what our bylaws say: 5.6 "Voting list. At least 10 days before each meeting of members, a complete list of the Members entitled to vote at such meeting, or any adjournment thereof, shall be made, arranged in alphabetical order, with the address of and the number of votes held by each, which list shall be kept on fire with the Secretary of the Association, for a period of ten (10) days prior to such meeting. The list shall be kept open at the time and place of such meeting for the inspection of any Member."

NO ONE on the election team has requested this list. Yet.

I'm thinking it falls to me and it's another job I have on Monday.

No problem asking and dealing with the answer.
If it's a "yes," we might find out where those trusts really are and get useful addresses. Great.
If it's a "no," we go in with the certified letter and demand for postponement.

Our team has plenty of practice around ALL of it right now. If we do it again in Jan, it's not the end of the world.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
Sounds like a good plan.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
As NA1 said, the trust's address will be on the tax bill on your assessor's website - and on any recorded documents at your county's Recorder's office.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I wouldnt' waste your time tracking down corporate rentals held in trust. I've emailed them sevearl times to vote on issue that would save them several hundred a year and they never voted. Some emailed back stating we needed to mail them a paper ballot and I told them the bylaws do not stipulate that and they can print it off the website or simply vote online like normal people do.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.045
is where I found the law about owners getting a list

get someone outside the HOA to put up the signs two day before election. the HOA has no authority over outsiders that come and put pressure washing, lawn mowing and other signs in our common areas. I am constantly yanking them out of our front entrance area. Even if they do, they most likely requre a hearing before getting a fine and need to prove it was you that did it. since you did not do it, they have no recourse.

vis ta vie
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
We thought as much already about the likelihood that a trust holder really wants to get involved in the nitty or the gritty around elections or even low to moderate assessments or dues increases.
It means NOTHING to them unless something breaks and their investments are wiped away and the HOA is involved.

Although 22+ pieces of property means 22 votes and when we're scrabbling right now for the full 45, it sure looks attractive. But so much work and for what?

As to signs: good thought! Why not? Gotta find the "interlopers" who can collaborate! : )
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/24/2023 5:55 PM
Also, how can I convince all 12 of our "exec committee" and a few others who are friendly to the cause to hand over their paper proxies so we go into the meeting with as many as possible?
What exactly is this "exec committee"?

What year was your HOA established?

Do you know if the HOA is under RCW 64.38 or RCW 64.90? Does the Declaration say?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
The campaign strategy looks good. For this thread, these items are what have my attention:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/24/2023 5:55 PM
The management firm is NOT informing any of the owners of any of the candidates (so far only me) before the meeting!
This is a HUGE issue all on its own and a violation of our bylaws. We are calling them on that.
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4
I am checking re: asking for the list. Unsure of that status, if someone else on the "team" has asked for it, will ask for it or if I should. So far, what we know is that they have it and it's not available for anyone to see, no matter what the bylaws say about it being open 10 days before an election. Checking on that.


I am glad these items caught the attention of others here as well.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/25/2023 10:37 AM
We thought as much already about the likelihood that a trust holder really wants to get involved in the nitty or the gritty around elections or even low to moderate assessments or dues increases.
It means NOTHING to them unless something breaks and their investments are wiped away and the HOA is involved.

Although 22+ pieces of property means 22 votes and when we're scrabbling right now for the full 45, it sure looks attractive. But so much work and for what?

As to signs: good thought! Why not? Gotta find the "interlopers" who can collaborate! : )

It might make a difference to them depending on your view of restricting rentals or not.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 11/25/2023 10:21 AM
I wouldnt' waste your time tracking down corporate rentals held in trust. I've emailed them sevearl times to vote on issue that would save them several hundred a year and they never voted. Some emailed back stating we needed to mail them a paper ballot and I told them the bylaws do not stipulate that and they can print it off the website or simply vote online like normal people do.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.045
is where I found the law about owners getting a list

get someone outside the HOA to put up the signs two day before election. the HOA has no authority over outsiders that come and put pressure washing, lawn mowing and other signs in our common areas. I am constantly yanking them out of our front entrance area. Even if they do, they most likely requre a hearing before getting a fine and need to prove it was you that did it. since you did not do it, they have no recourse.

I disagree. We've gotten investors to vote when their interests were affected.

It is also possible the investors support the playgrounds. They may view them as making units easier to rent.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With NA1--we too have campaigned with corp. owners with pretty good results. This was with two different director elections and getting a supermajority to rewire our CC&Rs. Michele must campaign as hard with them as with anyone else. It's a mistake yo speculate about whets or not they'll vote. Presume that they will if you urge them to.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With NA1--we too have campaigned with corp. owners with pretty good results. This was with two different director elections and getting a supermajority to rewire our CC&Rs. Michele must campaign as hard with them as with anyone else. It's a mistake yo speculate about whets or not they'll vote. Presume that they will if you urge them to.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I guess you could tell the corp rentals they want to blow $60K on a playground AND they want to restrict rentals, if that is really the case. that would get them motivated to vote.

vis ta vie
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Well, we're hitting now the last 5 days - M-F - for digging into documents (with the management firm or the assessor's office)
and deciding if and how we reach out to the corporate owners of - at last count - 37 of 150 lots!

Will know more about how/if to reach out to corporate owners tomorrow after I call the management firm to ask aboout viewing the owner list, which
is supposed to be "guaranteed" by bylaws to view 10 days before an election.

If they - mgt firm and board - blow through this bylaw too (as the board did with the August 2023 election date,
also in the bylaws) we have other decisions to make!
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Nice work!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You may have to make your request for the Memrbers List in writing, Michele and you migh need to state your purpose for wanting it.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
It says in our bylaws, in black on white, that the list will be available 10 days before the election for review.
It doesn't qualify by whom ("any Member") or where (altho it's on file with the Secretary) or that you have to give a reason.
But the statement is right there.

"At least ten (10) days before each meeting of Members, a complete list of the Members entitled to vote at such a meeting, or any adjournment therof, shall be made, arranged in alphabetical order, with the address of and the number of votes held by each, which list shall be kept on file with the Secretary of the Association, for a period of ten (10) days prior to such meeting. The list shall be kept open at the time and place of such meeting for the inspection of any Member."

I will call the management firm tomorrow AND send an email to our account rep and
ask in both to see it.
If they require that I drive the 30 miles from our neighborhood to the management firm office, I will
set up an appointment to do that. I would hope to do it, if needed, on Tuesday.
If they give me crap and say they have no time slots before Dec 4, we got a problem.

HOWEVER, big however, the board secretary - the remaining person sitting on the board at this point, also appointed and not elected - lives
just 3 doors down from me. We might hold an access appointment at her house? As the bylaw says "kept on file with the Secretary."
I'll ask about all possibilities.

As I've noted before, the board blew through another bylaw - essentially "you will hold your election on the first Thursday of August" -
earlier this year. No election and here we are heading to have it on Dec. 4.

If they give me trouble on this, we do have another issue to deal with, don't we? And at least 2 violations of bylaws...
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/26/2023 10:23 AM
It says in our bylaws, in black on white, that the list will be available 10 days before the election for review.
No, this is not what the bylaw you quoted says. It says the list "shall be made."

You need to look at (1) the section of your bylaws that speaks to records inspections; and (2) the relevant statute sections.

HOA statute sections that may be relevant:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.045

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.495

Nonprofit corporation statute sections that are definitely relevant:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A (starting at the books and records section)
There appears to be a "proper purpose" requirement (to which Kerry alluded). Though this is ordinarily only a formality. The "proper purpose" is to reach out to owners to discuss HOA issues and candidates for the upcoming election.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I see your Bylaws section* states the owner list may be "inspected." It also seem that the sec'y/PM must prepare such a list 10 days ahead of the meeting. It appears this list is only available AT "the meeting FOR inspection.

But I think you have nothing to lose by asking the sec'y if you can hav a copy of photo of the list.

So read the citations form Elle to make sure which permits you to copy/and or possess the list.

A simple purpose is: "To encourage owners to vote."

In your Bylaws, what does "...and the number of votes held by each..." mean??? Do some homes have more votes than others?? While atypical, in some HOAs larger Units or Single Family Homes have more votes than smaller ones or because of some other variable. This is extremely;y important since you want to try even harder to get votes from homes that have more than one vote.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
The "exec committee" is my shorthand for the campaign committee that working to get me elected in this rounnd of elections. There is no other - on the board or elsewhere - that I know of.

Our HOA was established in 2016. So we are in the "elder" group of HOAs, subject to the "old" state laws. Unfortunately, per what makes a quorum. New law is 20%. We're still stuck with 30. However, our HOA is exempt from having to allow ADUs. Newer HOAs in the state must allow them. Here, a resident could request being allowed to install one, subject to city ordinance (those are in development, due out full in 2 years). And if you took a look at the size of our yards, there are only a handful that would meet current city ordinances for adding ANYTHING, even a tool shed.

Good question about which RCW. I will go forth to question one of the "pioneers" on the election exec committee. Thx.
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
So the bylaw on this is, well, nonsense?
And only a formality?
And no one is expecting anyone to really look at the document?
MicheleH4 (Washington)
Posts: 27
Posted:
I will ask.

If there's such a phrase, why is it there if the "powers" don't expect anyone to invoke/use/ask about it?

The "number of votes held by each" probably refers to the "owners" in the whole and in the main.
And it would apply to corporate owners, some of whom hold multiple properties and so get multiple votes.

We have several corporate owners who hold 10+ properties. They each get 10+ votes.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Each lot gets one vote so if someone owns 10 dresses, they get 10 votes. Your Bylaws says something very different a than that. It says "...with the address of and the number of votes held by each..." which implies only one address but multiple votes for that address? Please ask your early owners what this means.

Only a guess, but I think the voter list wording means that whoever is counting the ballots can inspect the list to make sure the person qualifies. Onwrs may inspect it too for basically the same reason. Our Election Rules also requires such a list be available for ballot counters to inspect & owners.

That is a separate issue from Owners' rights to inspect and copy or possess an HOA's Membership List.

Btw, who DOES out the ballots (scuze if your already replied to that question)

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/26/2023 12:48 PM
So the bylaw on this is, well, nonsense?
It's not nonsense. For one thing, it means that the bylaws require there to be a record of each owner and his/her address.

Granted I believe the statutes already require this record.

What I was trying to say is that you want to use other bylaws (pertaining to owners' right to inspect HOA records) and possibly statute sections (also pertaining to owners' rights to inspect HOA records) to justify your request to see the list.

I will try to get a bead on which RCW section applies. Washington is the pits when it comes to its HOA statute organization.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleH4 on 11/26/2023 12:46 PM
Our HOA was established in 2016. So we are in the "elder" group of HOAs, subject to the "old" state laws.
Got it. I assume there was never a vote to amend the Declaration and apply the newer statute RCW 64.90. In which case I agree the older statute RCW 64.38 applies. On the third hand, per the new statute (64.90) these newer statute sections also apply (and control in a conflict with the older statute): RCW 64.90.095, 64.90.405(1) (b) and (c), 64.90.525 and 64.90.545. None of the latter seem relevant to records requests or the membership list.

Hence the aforementioned 64.38.045 is one of the three authorities you can cite for your records request. Your formal letter asking for the list could read something like this:

Dear HOA Secretary,

Pursuant to RCW 64.38.045 (4) (c); RCW 24.03A.210 (4); and Bylaw ___, an association must retain the "the names of current owners, addresses used by the association to communicate with them, and the number of votes allocated to each lot."

Pursuant to RCW 64.38.045 (5), the list of owners and addresses "must be made available for examination and copying by all owners... (i) During reasonable business hours or at a mutually convenient time and location; and
(ii) At the offices of the association or its managing agent."

Would you please provide me with the chance to examine and copy the list on ____ or ____. Alternatively and pursuant to RCW 24.03A.220, would the HOA please provide me with a copy of the list compiled no earlier than today's date?

I make this request in good faith and with the proper purpose of encouraging owners to vote and apprising them of HOA issues as I see them.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Name
address
email addie
phone number


I threw this together. It could stand double checking. But I think it is good enough.

The HOA is not supposed to mess around with this. They are supposed to provide the list with current addresses (with one caveat), period. Nationwide legislatures understand that thee main mechanism for owners to be heard is via the people they elect, and the legislatures aim to enable communications among owners that go towards supporting such elections.

The one caveat is that an owner can request confidentiality of his/her address, and the HOA and you are supposed to respect this. In other words, you do not get the address of such owners.

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