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LindaM36 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Our covenants state that only two pets are allowed per household. I own my home and land. Can an HOA go door to door asking how many pets you have and require you to show vaccination papers? The covenants say nothing about vaccines or showing proof.
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
In my experience, pets are not a problem to the HOA until they are a problem (noise, such as barking, whining or someone in the community is afraid of dogs or, worse, has been bitten). Unless your HOA has rules requiring you to provide proof of current vaccination, they can’t force you. But they can change the rules. (And I can’t think of any proof they can require short of something like registration papers from the AKC, but most people do not have purebreds).

Personally, I’d aim to keep to the limit. I can think of nothing more heartbreaking then someone having the power to insist you remove one or more of your animals.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaM36 on 11/20/2023 8:31 AM
Our covenants state that only two pets are allowed per household. I own my home and land. Can an HOA go door to door asking how many pets you have and require you to show vaccination papers? The covenants say nothing about vaccines or showing proof.

Our Declaration says the association can only come onto our property "only when necessary in connection with construction, maintenance or repair for the benefit of the common area or the Owners in Common." I would be surprised if your Declaration would attempt to authorize trespassing. A basic property right is the right to exclude others. If they are not invited onto your property, bye-bye. When we moved in, the president came snooping around a few times.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaM36 on 11/20/2023 8:31 AM
Our covenants state that only two pets are allowed per household. I own my home and land. Can an HOA go door to door asking how many pets you have
-- Anyone can knock on your door as long as they are not making a habit of bothering and, say, harassing you.

-- Do an owner have to answer the door? No.

-- Does an owner have to respond to questions about how many pets you have? If an owner does not respond, then I would argue the HOA has the right to issue the owner a violation notice. If the owner lies about how many pets he/she has, then it's up to the HOA to prove the owner is lying. And the HOA board/manager better not be stupid enough to come onto your property without your permission to try to get proof you are lying.

-- On the other hand, I think an owner had best make sure their pets are not some kind of nuisance, like barking noise, or a cat that gets in fights, or odors coming from the property due to improper pet waste disposal.

Quote:
Posted By LindaM36 on 11/20/2023 8:31 AM
and require you to show vaccination papers? The covenants say nothing about vaccines or showing proof.
If the HOA has common area where people take their dogs for walks, the HOA might be on solid legal ground to create a rule requiring vaccinations for pets using the common area.

Does your HOA have common area, such as roads, sidewalks or a park?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I forgot - right to privacy. Can you imagine the police going door to door asking "are you in your office writing bad checks?"
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
This is an important California case, appealed and confirmed by CA Supreme Court. Appeals Court said pets would actually have to interfere with neighbor's enjoyment of their property for HOA to enforce.

https://casetext.com/case/nahrstedt-v-lakeside-village-condominium-assn
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 9:11 AM
This is an important California case, appealed and confirmed by CA Supreme Court. Appeals Court said pets would actually have to interfere with neighbor's enjoyment of their property for HOA to enforce.

https://casetext.com/case/nahrstedt-v-lakeside-village-condominium-assn
I think you misread. The California Supreme Court ruled against the pet owner. From the Ca Supreme Court's conclusion:

Plaintiff's (cat owner Nahrstedt's) allegations, even if true, are insufficient to show that the pet restriction's harmful effects substantially outweigh its benefits to the condominium development as a whole, that it bears no rational relationship to the purpose or function of the development, or that it violates public policy.
LindaM36 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Ours states they can come onto to the property for inspection but our board thinks they can come on the property anytime they feel like it. I have no trespassing signs and my gate is locked. They would come into my backyard and leave the gate open. I have a dog and he will escape if the gate gets left open. Then the board would blame me for him being loose.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaM36 on 11/20/2023 9:38 AM
Ours states they can come onto to the property for inspection but our board thinks they can come on the property anytime they feel like it. I have no trespassing signs and my gate is locked. They would come into my backyard and leave the gate open. I have a dog and he will escape if the gate gets left open. Then the board would blame me for him being loose.
I think you are going to have to lawyer up to address this. And I think you have a good case to stop them from coming on your property without proper notice. Unfortunately in my opinion this is going to cost you money to fight.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LizD3 on 11/20/2023 8:41 AM
In my experience, pets are not a problem to the HOA until they are a problem (noise, such as barking, whining or someone in the community is afraid of dogs or, worse, has been bitten). Unless your HOA has rules requiring you to provide proof of current vaccination, they can’t force you. But they can change the rules. (And I can’t think of any proof they can require short of something like registration papers from the AKC, but most people do not have purebreds).

Personally, I’d aim to keep to the limit. I can think of nothing more heartbreaking than someone having the power to insist you remove one or more of your animals.

I agree with Liz. I would think it might be a challenge for someone to hide more than two animals because they bark and poop and that can be heard and smelled. That said, if that's the rule, you can petition the board to change it, but you'd better be prepared to address issues like people running a would-be dog breeding operation in the backyard.

There are also city or county ordinances that may require dogs and cats to be vaccinated (our area also requires ferrets to have their shots). I would think if you're a responsible pet owner, you'd have no trouble with keeping your pet vaccinated and showing proof, if necessary - especially if Fluffy or Fido go off and bite a neighbor or two. If someone has to get treated for rabies or other diseases that can be spread by a bite, you may wind up with a nasty lawsuit that will cost you far more than having it vaccinated.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 11/20/2023 9:37 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 9:11 AM
This is an important California case, appealed and confirmed by CA Supreme Court. Appeals Court said pets would actually have to interfere with neighbor's enjoyment of their property for HOA to enforce.

https://casetext.com/case/nahrstedt-v-lakeside-village-condominium-assn
I think you misread. The California Supreme Court ruled against the pet owner. From the Ca Supreme Court's conclusion:

Plaintiff's (cat owner Nahrstedt's) allegations, even if true, are insufficient to show that the pet restriction's harmful effects substantially outweigh its benefits to the condominium development as a whole, that it bears no rational relationship to the purpose or function of the development, or that it violates public policy.

I didn't misread. Because of this case the Legislature guarantees everyone one pet.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 10:21 AM
I didn't misread.
Yes, you did misread. You did so grossly, such that you put out false information. You claimed:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 9:11 AM
This is an important California case, appealed and confirmed by CA Supreme Court.

From the Ca Supreme Court decision:
Accordingly, we [the Ca Supreme court] reverse the judgment of the Court of Appeals and remand for further proceedings consistent with the views expressed in this opinion.

One reason I corrected you is because it is important for readers to understand that the original, un-amended covenants get great deference by the courts.

The Court of Appeals screwed up. The Ca Supreme Court called out the lower court on this.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 11/20/2023 11:04 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 10:21 AM
I didn't misread.
Yes, you did misread. You did so grossly, such that you put out false information. You claimed:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 9:11 AM
This is an important California case, appealed and confirmed by CA Supreme Court.

From the Ca Supreme Court decision:
Accordingly, we [the Ca Supreme court] reverse the judgment of the Court of Appeals and remand for further proceedings consistent with the views expressed in this opinion.

One reason I corrected you is because it is important for readers to understand that the original, un-amended covenants get great deference by the courts.

The Court of Appeals screwed up. The Ca Supreme Court called out the lower court on this.

Nothing I wrote was false.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Correction: the dissent would have concurred.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Elle's remarks about the very-famous Nahrstedt case are correct.
JoeN6 (Virginia)
Posts: 94
Posted:
So a resident can only keep two fish in their fish tank ?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoeN6 on 11/20/2023 1:51 PM
So a resident can only keep two fish in their fish tank ?

If the fish bark, poop all over the common area, and bite people - then yes.

(Seriously, most CC&Rs are talking about dogs and cats, because they're the most likely to cause problems. Generally the CC&Rs don't address things inside a home that don't cause issues external to the home. Some fish in a tank or some budgies in a cage fall into that category, although even those can be regulated in condos. A breeding operation inside a home may well run afoul of restrictions, and is often prohibited.)

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