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PatR4 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Anyone in Florida have any success canceling a contract. Our bod got us into a ridiculous ATT 7 yr contracts no one wants. The state statute is unclear to me It is statute
720 309. Thanks

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This HOA law probably isn't going to help you. You may think it's ridiculous. but that's subjective - it may be perfectly fine but you don't like it for whatever reason. If you can prove someone had a conflict of interest, didn't tell anyone, and took advantage or got a kickback, there might be something to chew on, but first, you'll have to prove it and then it would likely be more of a civil action.

If you don't like what this board did, you'll have to do the work and get more information from them on why this contract was necessary, and consider your objections. If you don't like being locked in for 7 years, that's understandable. If you think the cost is prohibitive, that's ok too, but if the contract's been signed, you don't just get out of it because you think the terms are "ridiculous." That's why people are supposed to read the things before they sign, and ask an attorney to review and explain whatever you don't understand. If you're not comfortable with the terms, don't sign it. If the board did THAT, you may have a good reason to vote them out in the next election.

Anyway, if the board can't or refuses to explain itself and you have other neighbors who are just as pissed as you, get together and vote these folks out in the next election or do a recall (check your documents to see how to call a special meeting to do this.) As I always say, be careful of what you wish for because you may get it. Will you find people willing to step up and serve (and one may need to be YOU)?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Sheila: you need to look at contract law.

A decent contract will spell out the terms under which either party can get out of it. Terms often include something like paying an early-termination penalty. So read the actual contract carefully. Unfortunately, there can be cases where the cost of early termination can be worse than just sticking it out - for example, if there is a chance that the other party will go to court over it, your legal costs can be higher than the remaining contract payments, in which case you chalk it up to an expensive lesson.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I have not heard of an association being successful at this. You would have to wait until your annual meeting or follow your bylaws to be call a special meeting. Unless your bylaws say otherwise, you would need 10% of the boing members to petition for a special meeting. Once you hold the meeting, you would need 51% of the members to be present to make it a valid meeting (or whatever the quorum is defined in your documents. Once you have a quorum, a majority would have to vote to cancel the contract. Is it even realistic to try and get those numbers for a meeting?

If you actually got the votes to cancel, that doesn’t mean you can cancel without penalties. It may cost the association a large amount to get out of the contract.

Is the contract so bad that it’s worth going through this?

PatR4 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posted:
The bod made this decision without considering that the majority homeowner’s were against it. Our dues are going up 21%. We fought for years to get out of a comcast contract. Also there is a 100,000 dollar incentive, which most homeowners consider a kickback, which will return a small amount of money back to the association. But after 7 years, it’s like a balloon payment.. pay back. The statute allows us to get out but we need a limited proxy… not sure what that is.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatR4 on 11/16/2023 3:21 PM
The bod made this decision without considering that the majority homeowner’s were against it. Our dues are going up 21%. We fought for years to get out of a comcast contract. Also there is a 100,000 dollar incentive, which most homeowners consider a kickback, which will return a small amount of money back to the association. But after 7 years, it’s like a balloon payment.. pay back. The statute allows us to get out but we need a limited proxy… not sure what that is.

The $100,000 incentive is not in any way a kickback. It's normal practice when signing a bulk communications contract to give the HOA a "per-door" incentive. That money can be put in the general fund and used to pay down expenses. I don't know why you say it will give a small amount of money back to the association - all of the money goes to the association. I don't think you really understand the terms of the contract or how the incentive works.

I also strongly suspect that your dues are not going up 21% just because of the contract with AT&T. If you had a contract previously with Comcast, then the cost is probably just about the same as before. Have you asked why your dues are going up 21%? Could it be due to the huge increases in insurance we are seeing here in Florida?

If you are serious about trying to get enough votes to do this, you really need to consult an attorney. The limited proxy is used to get a quorum and to vote. Your association probably uses a limited proxy every year for the annual meeting. The proxy is signed by the homeowner and gives another person the right to vote for them on a limited matter - so in this case it would probably be to overturn the contract. There are strict rules for proxies and if you don't follow them, the proxies are invalid.

This is not an easy process. You need to consult someone who's an expert on FS 720 to make sure you are doing everything right.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatR4 on 11/16/2023 3:21 PM
The bod made this decision without considering that the majority homeowner’s were against it. Our dues are going up 21%. We fought for years to get out of a comcast contract. Also there is a 100,000 dollar incentive, which most homeowners consider a kickback, which will return a small amount of money back to the association. But after 7 years, it’s like a balloon payment.. pay back. The statute allows us to get out but we need a limited proxy… not sure what that is.

FS 720.309 may let the membership cancel a contract that the board entered into, but from AT&T's side, I'm pretty sure they will be able to enforce any early termination penalties. You should see what the contract has to say about early termination and decide if you are willing to take that hit.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatR4 on 11/16/2023 3:21 PM
The bod made this decision without considering that the majority homeowner’s were against it. Our dues are going up 21%. We fought for years to get out of a comcast contract. Also there is a 100,000 dollar incentive, which most homeowners consider a kickback, which will return a small amount of money back to the association. But after 7 years, it’s like a balloon payment.. pay back. The statute allows us to get out but we need a limited proxy… not sure what that is.

FS 720.309 may let the membership cancel a contract that the board entered into, but from AT&T's side, I'm pretty sure they will be able to enforce any early termination penalties. You should see what the contract has to say about early termination and decide if you are willing to take that hit.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 11/16/2023 5:57 PM
Posted By PatR4 on 11/16/2023 3:21 PM
The bod made this decision without considering that the majority homeowner’s were against it. Our dues are going up 21%. We fought for years to get out of a comcast contract. Also there is a 100,000 dollar incentive, which most homeowners consider a kickback, which will return a small amount of money back to the association. But after 7 years, it’s like a balloon payment.. pay back. The statute allows us to get out but we need a limited proxy… not sure what that is.

FS 720.309 may let the membership cancel a contract that the board entered into, but from AT&T's side, I'm pretty sure they will be able to enforce any early termination penalties. You should see what the contract has to say about early termination and decide if you are willing to take that hit.

I agree.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
It's likely that AT&T structured the incentives to rise the longer you stay with the contract. This guys are savvy and are in it to make money. The contract probably balances these incentives with the early termination penalties, with one rising as the other falls. Breaking a contract and expecting to get out of it unscathed is unrealistic and naive - you also have to balance the potential for money saved with the cost of doing the saving.

As I mentioned earlier, sometimes the cheapest solution to something like this is running out the contract and moving to a different provider at the end.

(I'd also be surprised if state law gives homeowners an unlimited right to cancel HOA contracts - although it could be another of those "consumer protection" laws that backfire. Something like that would create a disincentive for anyone to do business with HOAs. It would also create an incentive for businesses to structure any contract with HOAs with strong legal protections for the business, higher prices overall, and painful penalties for the HOA that tries to get cute. In other words, the HOA would be the loser. This is how business works.)
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What Lori said. Even if the vote succeeds, it may not matter if the contract has been signed. If there is some sort of clause for early termination, you may be past the time period in which to do by the time of the meeting.

I agree you need to take a closer look at your budget and the income-expense statements for the past two or three years and note which line items have increased the fastest and ask why. Lori mentioned insurance, so you can start there. There may be other areas where you might have to consider getting another contractor whose prices are more reasonable.

By the way, kickbacks are given to someone who unfairly (or unlawfully) used his or her influence to facilitate a contract or agreement to whoever received the job. Do you have any proof this happened and who benefited? If not, be careful about tossing that word around. Saying the wrong thing to the wrong people could lead to talk of a lawsuit for defamation or libel

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I'm particularly sensitive to people throwing around the word "kickback" when it comes to bulk communication contracts. We just went through this process. Our Comcast contract is ending and we were evaluating alternatives. We had a fiber provider who offered what I believe is a much better long-term solution for the community than Comcast. They came and did a presentation and I was very excited. Once audience member told our PM that I must be getting a kickback from them because I liked them so much. Luckily, our PM shut him down. I had nothing to personally gain from liking a better solution - this is way reputations get damaged. Anyway, the rest of the board voted to stay with Comcast, who now is refusing to add any of the dispute resolution language our attorney suggested we add to the contract.

Back to the subject at hand - be careful when you accuse anyone of taking a kickback. By using that word, you are basically saying the person is doing something illegal.

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