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BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Hello- I am in a HOA in Atlanta, GA. We've got an owner who bought out most expensive unit ever in March, 2021.

Since then, we've had to sue him once to pay his dues, we've sent him to collections twice more and are preparing to sue him again. He's leased out his place on AirBnB and on Peerspace against our rules and lied about it. He's also made payments on our management company's site only to void them immediately after. He repeated this behavior for about 3 months to look like he's paid.

Now, he's found a program in Georgia that's offering to pay all of his past due balance as a one time "grant".

As the owner has been nothing but a headache since moving in, would it be incorrect to decline the programs grant and move towards foreclosure? They want to pay us directly and need paperwork to do so. From my understanding, we are under no obligation to accept the money.

thank you.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
By accepting the grant money, we are just delaying him going back to collections as he's not going to be able to afford his $700 dues in December or January.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
By accepting the grant money, we are just delaying him going back to collections as he's not going to be able to afford his $700 dues in December or January.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
By accepting the grant money, we are just delaying him going back to collections as he's not going to be able to afford his $700 dues in December or January.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
By accepting the grant money, we are just delaying him going back to collections as he's not going to be able to afford his $700 dues in December or January.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
By accepting the grant money, we are just delaying him going back to collections as he's not going to be able to afford his $700 dues in December or January.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
This sounds like a call to your PMC legal group is more than appropriate. Please let us know the conclusion.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You should probably be working with your HOA's attorney in any case. Among other things, that person will make sure you're complying with the fair debt collection laws and will give you advice about when it may be appropriate to move to foreclosure and when it makes more sense to lien and wait. The laws in particular are important - violate them and you jeopardize your right to collect at all.

Just one comment about the grant: who receives the grant, the owner or the HOA? It sounds to me like the owner, in which case the HOA isn't accepting grant money even though that's the ultimate source of the funds. Is the owner perhaps working with a debt counselor? If so, that's not the HOA's business and the HOA should have no opinion one way or the other.

Talk to the lawyer, it's important.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Personally, I would suggest taking the money offered.
To do otherwise may cause issues in the future and, in my opinion, not fulfilling your fiduciary duty to the Association.

I would also talk to the attorney about:

1) enforcing covenant on short term rental.
2) how to handle missed payments in the future.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
First off STOP SUING!!! That is the WORST option. Your lawyer should know this too. It is much better to lien or foreclose. The source of money has no bearing unless the HOA has to sign paperwork for it to be "granted". The HOA should NOT be doing that. It can accept the money if dues money is owed. If it's a situation where the HOA has to be involved in the grant, then walk away as fast as you can from that. The HOA has no need to be involved in how an owner/member gets their money.

Plus it may be time to change your HOA's rules to restrict AirNB or short term rentals. Plus check with local ordinance on the matter. Some cities also restrict short term rentals. It's NOT just an HOA thing. Once can restrict the short term rentals in your HOA documents, then the better chance you all have to enforce punitive actions.

Former HOA President
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thank you.

For what our attorney has said, in the State of Georgia, the only way to foreclose is to get a judgement, which requires a lawsuit.

We don't want to sue anyone, we would much rather people pay their dues on time, but that isn't happening.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thank you.

For what our attorney has said, in the State of Georgia, the only way to foreclose is to get a judgement, which requires a lawsuit.

We don't want to sue anyone, we would much rather people pay their dues on time, but that isn't happening.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A lien is a judgement too. It is stronger and cheaper than a lawsuit. Not sure what kind of lawyer you have. Be careful of ones that tell you "I will do what you tell me to do". It can be code there other options they are not telling you like a lien process ... Which much better off doing.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2023 6:23 AM

A lien is a judgement too.

No it is not.

I could place a lien on your property.
You could then challenge the lien through the courts.
The court would then issue a judgement as to who was right.

See: Lien: Three Main Types of Claim Against and Asset

See: Judgment: What It Is, How It Works, Examples

Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2023 6:23 AM
It is stronger and cheaper than a lawsuit.

Although a lien is less expensive then a court case, it is only a claim.
It is not as strong as a court ruling.

Technically, the Association already has a lien on the property via it's covenants.
The Association must perfect the lien by filing paperwork with the clerk.

Foreclosing on a lien varies by State and many, including the OPs, requires legal action to do so.

Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2023 4:42 AM
First off STOP SUING!!! That is the WORST option.

Sometimes it is the only option. It's not necessarily the worst. It's simply the most expensive.
As was pointed out, Georgia requires a court order to foreclose on a lien against real property.

See: ยง 44-14-530 - Manner of foreclosure; attachment of lien; proceeds of judicial sale; trial of claim; damages; effect of delivery of possessions

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bob,

I said to take the money and start the clock over again because if the Association didn't know where the money came from, they would likely take a check from the person.
Well, perhaps a money order (since they stopped payment on previous payments).

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Hit the nail on the head with the covenant violation against STR's and handle the Grant separately.
Find out what strings are attached, you may be waiving all rights past, present and future.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would like to know more about this "Grant" and it's relationship to the HOA. Take the money and apply it to the money owed. However, do NOT sign anything or be involved with the granting of the grant. This is all on the owner. Do not expect HOA support or involvement with anything other than taking of the physical cash or check.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'm pretty sure the grant has nothing to do with the HOA - this well-informed crowd would have heard about something like that before now.

The grant almost certainly is given to a debtor to help that person get his finances in order. Unfortunately, IMHO such grants do nothing to help people who can't handle money - but they can be effective if a person's financial problems are due to a particular circumstance such as crushing medical debt after a serious illness. In other words, a grant can help address bad luck - it won't address poor decision making in general.
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
The grant comes directly from a Georgia Housing assistance office who is helping people who are impacted by COVID 19. The guy bought his condo for $465,000 in March, 2021 but that doesn't seem to matter to them. The level of scrutiny on his need has been seemingly zero.

All we were asked to do is to fill out a W9 form for tax purposes as the money from the housing assistance office is considered income.

We are going to continue to have this owner make his payments through our attorney's office so that he cannot bounce anymore payments and trick up into thinking he's paid when he hasn't.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I knew it! There is a connection. If it was me, I would talk to the grant givers. If your getting money from them, they should know the circumstances. It seems there is a loophole this guy found to use the Covid funds. I would do more research on that. People are known to take advantage of those funds. My opinion the HOA name should stay out of it and only accept money directly from the member.

Former HOA President
BobS27 (Georgia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
That was my thought too but our attorney said that if a homeowner offered a payment we had to accept it. In this case, the homeowner isn't offering payment but rather we are being offered payment on his behalf.

Our two other board members wanted to take the money.

I did raise all of my concerns regarding potential fraud with the agency, but I was ignored. In his grant, they are covering $1000 in fines from his short term renting, $200 in NSF fees, attorneys collection costs, interest and late fees.

This grant enables all of his bad behavior.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Oh I see now how Herring away with it. Claiming rental relief... This can be a gray area. Think need to ask right questions to the attorney. You may be asking the wrong ones. Like direct payment required? A grant like this causes tax issues on the HOA.

Here is the deal... Fines can not be subject of liens or foreclosure in most states. It has to be back dues. There is fancy bookkeeping that applies dues payments to fines to make it appear dues not paid. That is an approach I am not in agreement with but it exists.

If he is using the property as pure rental then technically any legal expenses and even the dues payments are a tax deduction for him. It is not if full time resident. It is the use of the property that is causing the heartburn.

I would talk to a real estate lawyer about the laws of rentals. Check local laws on use for short term rentals. They may be restricted. Ask your attorney how to rewrite the HOA rules on putting in short term rentals. Make sure it is punitive to do so.

You got a slick snake on your hands. Do the same research they are doing. I have a feeling there may be a few details that may be able to apply back.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with the attorney. The source of these funds are not the HOA's business. HOAs can put conditions on accepting payments from delinquent owners - for example, not accepting partial payments any longer - but source of funds, no. Would the HOA get all up in this guy's business if the funds are a gift or an inheritance? Very unlikely. And if this does go to foreclosure, there are some judges out there who think that HOAs are a bunch of nasty bullies and are looking for any reason to find in favor of the homeowner. When we dealt with our delinquent accounts, we made sure we had a paper trail showing that we bent over backwards to work with the owner and get them back on track.

(To be clear, I have very little patience with people who make bad choices, and no patience at all with those who game the system. I'm firmly on the HOA's side here - but the board has to dot the i's and cross the t's - otherwise they risk doing something wrong that makes them unable to collect the money that's owed.)
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Cathy think missing a small link. The money is not coming directly from the owner. It is coming from the source of the grant. Which may require the HOA to sign off on. Plus with the tax Implications I would want to be protected by tax forms.

It would be one thing if the grant was being paid to the owner. It is another when the grant money is being filtered directly to the HOA. If this turns out to be fraudulent, the HOA accepted that money. It is not always the one requesting that is on the hook.

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS27 on 11/13/2023 6:51 PM
Hello- I am in a HOA in Atlanta, GA. We've got an owner who bought out most expensive unit ever in March, 2021.

Since then, we've had to sue him once to pay his dues, we've sent him to collections twice more and are preparing to sue him again. He's leased out his place on AirBnB and on Peerspace against our rules and lied about it. He's also made payments on our management company's site only to void them immediately after. He repeated this behavior for about 3 months to look like he's paid.

Now, he's found a program in Georgia that's offering to pay all of his past due balance as a one time "grant".

As the owner has been nothing but a headache since moving in, would it be incorrect to decline the programs grant and move towards foreclosure? They want to pay us directly and need paperwork to do so. From my understanding, we are under no obligation to accept the money.

thank you.

The board shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. He's a scammer and wants to drag you into it.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bob

If the money comes from him take it. If it involves a 3rd party get legal advice.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The HOA attorney is already involved with communications and accepting payment from this owner. I would listen to the attorney and follow his instructions - because if push comes to shove, the board can plausibly argue that doing so was acting in the best interests of the HOA. (Although in my experience, the HOA is not obligated to accept partial payments. This is especially true of the total amount owed is fairly small. Accepting small amounts can make it impossible to foreclose, since on paper it appears that the owner is making a good faith effort to get caught up on payments. It's one of the ways deadbeats game the system. Next will be a bankruptcy filing, which stops all collection actions.)

There was a lot of fraud involved with the covid relief programs, and the taxpayers footed the bill for a lot of stuff they shouldn't have. Will the government come after people who knowingly accepted money they weren't entitled to? Probably Uncle Sam has bigger problems on his hands, but I can think of a number of ways this can come back to bite the HOA.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It does show the money does go directly to the entity owed. However it may be in the form of a loan or do not have to pay back. They may not be able to sell or do other things with the property once accepted. Not sure if that is restricted if got the money.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If this grant or whatever it is part of COVID relief, we know there have been several instances of people gaming the system, and so I agree with others who've said this stinks to high heaven. The guy bought a condo for over $400K, so I suspect he has the money to pay you, but doesn't want to, and now thinks he's found a way for someone else (taxpayers) to pick up the tab. Wonder what would happen if someone reported this to the grant authorities and suggest they might want to take another look at the guy's finances and what he really plans to do with the money....

Oh, look there is a hotline where you could report complaints - https://www.pandemicoversight.gov/contact/about-hotline That said, I wouldn't do that just yet - you need to keep talking to your attorney and perhaps compel this guy to spill his guts about his failure/refusal to pay up. Maybe he tells you who's handling his application and then you report your reservations to him or her.

I know you're reluctant to sue, but having dealt with this stuff for five of my 10 years on the board, I found there were instances where we had no choice. By then, my attitude was "get him/her/them the hell out of the community." The association wasn't getting paid anyway and we'd end up writing it off, so why should these people enjoy living in their home or collecting rent checks until the ax fell? Then there were the people who'd file bankruptcy over and over again to stop the foreclosure by the association, but that's another story for another day.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Looking at the Georgia Websites Frequently Asked Questions page it is for pandemic related hardships.

I suspect the money is being paid directly to the HOA from the grant in order to avoid fraud.

It is not the HOAs responsibility to determine if the individual qualifies. That is up to the State and, based on the posting, it appears the State believes the individual qualifies.

Take the money. Move forward.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It should be noted that the owner does face consequences for getting this grant. It's not necessarily "Free money". The form the grant is received can be in a short term loan or can act similar to a lien to their home. They may not be able to sell or rent as readily. This is a ONE time deal for this person. Take the money to apply to the unpaid dues owed. This will prevent the foreclosure as the purpose of this grant was put in place for. However, it's not to be used to pay fines. Again Fines can NOT be the basis for a foreclosure. (Most states).

Just make sure from now on to apply non-payment of dues to their account if they keep not paying their dues. Fines are subjective and punitive. Legal expenses may be recoverable.

Former HOA President

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