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LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
We have an owner that wants to fix a minor electrical problem – he says it is just a little wiring issue and he is sure he can fix it even though he is not an electrician and has never done any electrical work before – but if he screws it up it could kill the electricity for the entire building until a licensed, insured electrician can come out and fix it.

Does anyone have any thoughts on why letting an owner do work on a common area is inadvisable? (Other than, you know, he might electrocute himself!)
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
The thoughts you expressed are all you need as to why it is not a good idea.
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
I expressed those thoughts but everyone loves this guy and they just know he can do it. So I’m going to need to come back with something stronger, if possible. (And I seem to remember reading earlier posts on this topic - anyone remember where they were?)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In your 4-unit condo bldg with, as I understand it the other 3 owners on the Board and you are not, trying to encourage your Board to behave responsibly, has been impossible, Liz, as you've reported many times.

Why not contact your HOA's insurance agent and ask about who is liable if a non-insured, non licensed person injures themselves on your premises doing electrical or any other kind of work?

LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/13/2023 5:08 PM
Why not contact your HOA's insurance agent and ask about who is liable if a non-insured, non licensed person injures themselves on your premises doing electrical or any other kind of work?

Great idea, but our agent stopped taking my phone calls when I complained that they were not licensed (and, big surprise, yes, they are still our agent, welcome to my corner of hell, I am so not kidding).
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Terrible idea. Would you hire your sister-in-law to clean your house? Each member can hire him privately for their individual needs. The HOA hiring him is a ticking time bomb, even though we all know "Good help is hard to find."
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
All it takes is for someone to break a nail or get a scratch and you will be signing your home titles over to the handyman.
The intentions may be well and good, but lead to disastrous consequences. Plus I don't think your Master insurer or home owners
insurer will like that, there is probably an exclusion about that in the pages of leagaleeze.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am an Electrician. There would be no way on earth I would touch anything electrical on my home nor anyone else's. I am NOT licensed nor insured. It's not my daily life job. If I did something wrong and burned the place down, insurance would NOT cover it.

A HOA is a corporation and responsible for ALL members. It should ALWAYS hire a licensed and insured PROFESSIONAL to touch anything. Otherwise you open up every single member to pay the price, suffer damages, or that person is responsible for every expense.

Even if the clubhouse light burned out, I would consider hiring a handyman service or licensed/insured electrician. They are in the business for doing this work. The HOA or it's members are NOT.

Tell them they can submit a bid to do the work along with the other professionals. The HOA board can decide to accept this option or not. They were given a proper shot at doing it. Just hope no one votes to say yes...

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Everyone has given great reasons, and here's mine - if you purchase materials for this project that have a warranty, not using a licensed person to install it can void the warranty if something goes wrong.

It's really too bad your neighbors are so hellbent on rejecting anything you say (because it seems you think things through unlike them) that they're willing to put their homes and wallets at risk

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Liability, sweetie. And lack of insurance. You break it, you bought it.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Is he a licensed contractor? Might be illegal for him to do job.
Is he getting paid? May be rule against directors getting paid.
Is he insured?
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieB4 on 11/13/2023 8:30 PM
The HOA hiring him is a ticking time bomb

Why do you say this? If you can give me a solid reason, that is something I can go back to them with.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Is that not clear at this point? You have someone not qualified, insured, or licensed that wants to do work. How is that not setting off a bomb inside your community waiting for the lid to blow off?

Former HOA President
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 11/14/2023 4:48 AM
It's really too bad your neighbors are so hellbent on rejecting anything you say (because it seems you think things through unlike them) that they're willing to put their homes and wallets at risk

Thanks for saying this. I try. I am so in water over my head, but I am trying to do the right thing.

(And warranty idea brilliant, but it is a cheap part so that won't work.)
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LizD3 on 11/14/2023 12:17 PM
Posted By JackieB4 on 11/13/2023 8:30 PM
The HOA hiring him is a ticking time bomb

Why do you say this? If you can give me a solid reason, that is something I can go back to them with.

Oh, for heaven's sake - when you started this conversation, you said the owner wanted to fix a minor electrical issue because "it's just a little wiring issue and he's sure he can fix it, even though he's not an electrician and has never done any electrical work before" You also noted if he screws up, he could kill the electricity for the entire building until someone with a license could come out and fix it.

JackieB4 just said hiring this guy is a ticking time bomb and you're received a number of good reasons why this isn't a good idea - hell, your reservations are on target. If this wasn't a major issue, why did you post the question in the first place? Your previous conversations about your community indicate it's you vs. everyone else (3), so it may be nothing you say will convince the others.

There is no silver bullet or magic words - either they'll hire a licensed electrician or go with this guy and hope he doesn't kill himself or blow up the building or the wiring issue won't get fixed at this time. In case it has to be spelled out for you - there's a reason people are licensed to do certain things. If this guy wants to play electrician with his own property (detached from yours and everyone else's), I'd say have at it. But you're in a condo, and for better or worse, all of you are connected.

It's hard enough finding qualified people to do anything - and if this guy is so convinced he can do the work and fix it, maybe he should do it for free. If everything works out, you can think about paying him for something else. As for me, I don't want people who've never done the job experiment on my property and this stunt could lead to others paying unlicensed people because it's cheaper. That doesn't guarantee it's automatically better. But hey, do you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/14/2023 9:54 AM
Is he a licensed contractor? Might be illegal for him to do job.
Is he getting paid? May be rule against directors getting paid.
Is he insured?

Not licensed. Not insured. Not getting paid. The other owners love the idea because it is free. I hate the idea for the liability issue and the lack of quality control and think it is stupid and shortsighted because a licensed electrician for half an hour or so of work can't cost more than a few hundred.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
In the state of California, engaging in the business of, or acting in the capacity of a contractor without a CSLB-issued license for jobs that total $500 or more is a criminal misdemeanor. (BPC § 7028 & 7028.7).

CONTRACTORS STATE LICENSE BOARD Fast Facts
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/14/2023 1:06 PM
In the state of California, engaging in the business of, or acting in the capacity of a contractor without a CSLB-issued license for jobs that total $500 or more is a criminal misdemeanor. (BPC § 7028 & 7028.7).

1. I don’t know if the cost would have been $500 or more. I doubt it (it is a minor, but tricky, job)
2. Even if it would cost more than $500 and I told them this, they wouldn’t care, they wouldn’t care, they wouldn’t care
3. But this was genius and big thanks
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Get an estimate, you might be surprised
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/14/2023 4:16 AM
I am an Electrician. There would be no way on earth I would touch anything electrical on my home nor anyone else's. I am NOT licensed nor insured. It's not my daily life job. If I did something wrong and burned the place down, insurance would NOT cover it.

A HOA is a corporation and responsible for ALL members. It should ALWAYS hire a licensed and insured PROFESSIONAL to touch anything. Otherwise you open up every single member to pay the price, suffer damages, or that person is responsible for every expense.

Even if the clubhouse light burned out, I would consider hiring a handyman service or licensed/insured electrician. They are in the business for doing this work. The HOA or it's members are NOT.

Tell them they can submit a bid to do the work along with the other professionals. The HOA board can decide to accept this option or not. They were given a proper shot at doing it. Just hope no one votes to say yes...

all states allow a homeowner exception, which allows homeowners to pull permits to work on thier own home. if you pulled a permit and had it inspected insurance would definitely cover it.

vis ta vie
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If it was only his house yes but this is work affecting his other neighbors’ properties.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/19/2023 7:31 PM
If it was only his house yes but this is work affecting his other neighbors’ properties.

This is the main issue.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We are not talking one person's house. If it's their house, mostly their business unless in a condo/attached situation. My opinion in a HOA if you need to pull a permit, you need to hire a professional. It will be between the HOA and the professional whom pulls the permit for the work.

Former HOA President
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
To clarify, the electrical issue is with a common area utility, but if it goes wrong, it will hurt the entire building. What they want to do is a band aid AND they want to let an owner do it. Problem #1: even if they are successful, it is only a matter of time before the bigger wiring problem will have to be dealt with. Problem #2 (this is what I wrote about here): letting an owner work on a common area electrical issue with no insurance and no expertise is a potential nightmare.

They want to do the band aid because it is free and easy. I want them to do the bigger, more costly fix because it will permanently and properly correct a serious problem.

I am about to lose this battle.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
You have probably done this already but memorialize your concerns, the risks, and the law, and address it to the association and the directors individually and remind them if there are any negative effects from the board’s approval of this work, and the director’s desire to perform common area maintenance for which he is not qualified, that the association and the directors individually could be held liable by members and the State of California.
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 8:16 AM
the association and the directors individually could be held liable by members and the State of California.

They know. They don't care. I have documented everything. Everything. Exploring next steps, now.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I'm sorry.
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 11/20/2023 8:32 AM
I'm sorry.

Thank you. Thank you very much. For everything.

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