Pick-up truck ban - even in garages

Craig,
Are the restrictions that you quoted exactly from the protective covenants?

Send us the exact wording. My association just went thru a very costly lawsuit against 2 Cadillac Escalade EXTs. Ours was a driveway issue but the Judges exact words were "That an Association that has included a specific type of vehicle ban, may enforce such a ban." There is more to it but this is the jist.

But the secret is in the wording from the Protective and Restrictive Covenants . Do not send us the ByLaws as they may not be different from the Covenants and do not have priority.

BINGO!!! Thank you.

I originally sent the wording from the rules. When Donna pointed me to the convenants I found something very interesting. It says, "Section 13. Commerical Trucks, Trailers, Campers and Boats. No trucks of any type (excepting, however, pickup trucks, campers and vans carrying no type of printign or advertising on the exterior thereof), commerical vehicles..." etc.

In any event, our covenants specifically allow pickups.

Now they are saying the restriction only applies to renters. This sounds like a fair housing violation. Any insight on this?

Mike,
Our Protective Covenants read that NO parking of Campers, trailors, all the rest of the things, AND PICKUP TRUCKS may not be parked except within the improvement (garages). Garage doors are to remain closed except for ingress and egress and with a reasonable time allowances for work on the property.

We went to court after a 3 year battle with the mediator and the 2 Escallade owners. There were other issues in the case but pertaining to your question, the Judge ruled that yes, the Association may enforce the parking covenant BUT, (here's the unhappy part) The Cadilla Escallades WERE NOT considered pickup Trucks.

He ruled that the Manufacturers classification determined what was and what was not a pickup. But the plot thickens. the 2 trucks were 2002 and a 2004 models. G.M classified the 2002 as a pickup and the 2004 as a SUV. They are identical. It seems that G.M. marketing didn't think that spending $65,000 on a pickup was sellable and "segmented" them as SUV's.

Now the weight restriction is outdated and needs to be amended because of your situation of restricted space. Open view is not allowing the big boys to be parked so this is a huge issue.

Craig - Don't the HOA docs go on to define commercial vehicles in terms of other factors like weight?

CraigK - I would interpret your covenants to mean the rights of renters are limited to the use of common area, is subject to the rules and regulations and the covenants, BUT does not allow voting rights to renters.

Hi Craig,

Because I have a couple of rentals in different places, I understand the statement of "an owner by leasing his parcel automatically delegates his rights of use" etc,

This means that once you sign a lease, you as an owner no longer may use any of the amenities such as pool, clubhouse, playground or any other amenity of the common property. You have delegated it's use to the renter.

You do NOT give up your rights to vote and participate in any meetings of the association.

Donna - With all due respect.. I know HOA docs vary quite a bit, but I know in VA, all the docs that I've seen says that the renter does not get to vote. They technically cannot even address the board at board meetings during the open forum without getting a letter from a letter from the owner that allows the renter to speak in behalf of the owner at the meeting. We try to encourage the renters to partipate. It just improves communications and makes for a better community, when the renters have more of an understanding. The renter here in VA still doesn't get to vote at elections or other issues that require a community/member vote. Do your Florida docs really give voting rights to the renters? Tks. just curious.

DonnaS - I believe you are under the impression that Craig is the owner, and not the renter, correct? If so, and if Craig is indeed the owner (not the renter) than you are correct that Craig does not give up his rights to vote and participate in any meetings of the association. It's the renter that can't vote.

DonnaS...I just couldn't resist asking this.......LOL are you in Martin County Fl ??? If so I am your neighbor to the north in PSL and I know all about the Cadillac issue and have spoken to the guy numerous times...LindaC3 :>}

Ahh Haa Linda, That's us!

Craig,

Jupiter has got some reall hard(blank) associations when it comes to renters. As for a legal recourse, I would think that the M.C has insurance against or a disclaimer against a legal suit.

Have you shown the covenant that allows pickup trucks to M.C or the Board? Maybe someone thought that it wouldn't be noticed and they could slip this one thru. I would not persue it because it would cost you more than you could recoop. I would definitely let them know that they have made a bad decision and you will be on top of it from now on. Point out that you are a member in good standing and want what is right according to your documents.

P.S. Craig, In case you haven't discovered it yet, landlords are treated differently than the non renting owners. Just an observation.

DonnaS.......that is toooo funny indeed......neighbors in cyber space.....I do custom designing of construction plans for homes thus the reason for dealing with all these HOA'S.......unreal some of the documents and misunderstandings because they refuse to use LAYMAN type launguage.Hopefully this year the State Senate will get the bill based where all COA'S and HOA's MUST use clear language in all governing documents.....LindaC3

We here in our community do NOT allow pick-up trucks PERIOD. We are in court at this time. Man bought house, the so called "screening committee" did tell him and it is in our docs, no trucks even in garages. He signed a letter saying he would buy a car within 30 days, but re-cinded the letter next day. Now we have it with our lawyer. I was not at screening so I can not say for sure as to what went on. As the new president I am requiring one board member be there. We have big changes here and it is hard. People appoint themselves to these things. One other problem the old board members (2) of them will turn their keys in saying they need them because they are part of screening committe. That is not what we do and they know this. I believe they want to know what is going on at all times in community.Short of changing all locks I may not have choice. LaVerne

Tracy,
Write down here what you are referring to. No rule may conflict with a covenant.

Hi Donna,

I should have used an emoticon (;-o). I was really just being facetious about this string because that's exactally what two different posters here said had happen to them ;-o . . .

But on a serious note regarding rules, right technically the Board is not supposed write one that conflict with Covenant. Our Board did a similar thing and I got the rule changed. The measure went to an association voted and passed as defined in our by-laws. You might check into how a rule is changed in your HOA and follow that process if its important to you.

T

Folks, I don't really expect answers for these rhetorical questions.
Where do you draw the line? Is it a matter of esthestics and available space.
How do you define commercial vehicle?
How do you define emergency vehicle?
How do you define truck?
How do you define pickup?
How large are your parking spaces? 8 or 9 ft wide?
When municipalities supply a govt owned car to the resident, how do you define Emergency Vehicles? Fire/Police Rescue? DC police, Fairfax police, Dept of Homeless Security? FBI high level desk-driving manager? CIA agent? How do you define emergency vehicle in term of vehicle type? Police Sedan, SUV, 3/4 ton Van, 1 Ton+ Ambulance, Police chief's Navigator, Escallade, ESV, Expedition, fire truck? Fire Pump Truck? One the HOA docs that I reviewed, mentioned Police Sedans. Just what is a police sedan? Is that the car that Barney Fife used to drive? Now we have some SUVs that are trucks if they manufactured in certain years and otherwise they call them SUVs, and now you have "Crossovers", or CUV for Crossover Utility Vehicle and XUV "not to be confused with GMC's Envoy XUV and Hybrids.
With limited visitor spaces, is it fair to allow the owner to store the govt vehicle in the visitor spaces with the resident's other 3 personally owned vehicles.
Just where do you draw the line? If you make a new rule that covers any of part of these issues, it should easy to Understand, easy to Enforce, easy to Monitor, and easy to implement. If anyone ever comes up with a fair, reasonable, and simple plan that meets our criteria, please let me know.

Donna - You're right.. I agree, but you know, it's ironic that our most recent parking resolution was recently written (more of less within the last 3 years) by our HOA attorney (on retainer), who I really do think is one of the best in the industry; however, the document that he drafted, it is wrought with problems, many of which we've already discussed here. I know that they typically grab the canned rules that they all have used previously, change the HOA name at the top of the document and march on. Overall, it's not a bad document, but with any contract, if there is grey area or ambiguity, then you have a problem. My goal is to have the atty tweak the existing document before we wind up in court.