Wondering What To Do

So it's been two weeks since The Big Budget Meeting where I was ambushed and (it is claimed) I was relieved of my Presidency. I still dispute that this is valid, but 'our' lawyer has never weighed in.

Our PM says they have no choice but to assume that there is currently no President.

So it appears that I'm all alone in my "Presidency in Exile".

I'm not too terribly upset about it, but I'm left to ponder my options.

A short recap: over a month ago, Dragon Breath Lady (DBLady; a tenant who lives in my neighborhood) got seriously in my face while I was at the community pool; I'd called 911 to have a trespasser removed. The other members of the Board did not have my back in this matter; our lawyer suggested fining the landlord $50. So that letter went out.

What happened next: DBLady made a huge stink on Facebook. Her landlord made a big stink on Facebook. DBLady enlisted friends - one of whom I'll call LL - who started calling people (our PM, the lifeguards, other Board members, the police; also writing our PM demanding access to records), sometimes without identifying herself, recording their conversations, and sharing those recordings on FB and with some of the people she called on the phone.

Our lawyer got involved. One of the emails that LL sent to the lawyer contained lines like "It appears Bill D used your legal services to perpetrate fraud on a third party ..." and "evidence that Bill D fraudulently manufactured the communication ..." I have little doubt that LL also said these things to other Board members and that their doing so led to the vote to relieve me of my Presidency{1}. FWIW, our lawyer knows I did not commit fraud etc.

And so:

1. I hope I don't lose any friends here - I'm seriously considering suing LL for defamation. I haven't talked to a lawyer about this, but I feel like I've got a fairly good case for defamation per se, and I don't think proving malice will be a stretch.

Q1: Bad idea?

Q2: How do I find a good lawyer?

2. I installed a new video surveillance setup at home, and for almost two weeks now I've noticed that DBLady has been driving past my house 3-8 times every day (that I can see on the video). It's stalking behavior - I'll ask you to accept my word that she's going out of her way.

Q3: Do I want to contact the police about this? I'm not sure if I'll be taken seriously or not.

Q4: Does the HOA / PMC have any kind of obligation to help me out with this kind of thing? Ie, is there some aspect of D&O insurance or Indemnification that somehow pertain to defamation? In general, I'm not getting much response from the PM or the lawyer on these things.

Again, I hope that none of you think less of me for this. I could just start calling people, but I thought I'd ask here first to check if I'm overlooking anything.

Thank you,

Bill D

{1} I'd like to say here for the record that I don't really care about being President. What bugs me is how poorly people have acted; for instance, they could have done it during executive session instead of in front of the entire neighborhood. Or, perhaps one of my fellow Board members might have told me "hey, I've been getting these phone calls ...". And mostly, the way that DBLady and LL have been running this smear campaign - on purely philosophical grounds I'm disinclined to just walk away and let them get away with it.

Bill

You need to take a break from all this. Resign from the BOD and see where it all goes. You can run for the BOD at a later time.

The above is probably the real wisdom.

HOA directors are quasi-public figures. This means that the bar for proving defamation (not defamation per se) is higher than for a non-public figure.

I could be wrong, but by contrast I think defamation per se does not distinguish between public and non-public figure. Defamation per se is that serious.

Bill,
What are your damages? The only ones I can think of is you do not have to baby sit an out-of-control pool and try and manage a group of board members that lets FB decide what to do.

I would say you might owe them money.

As John said walk away and take a break is the best advice.

BillD,

I would take the advice of John, Mark, and Elle and walk away for now. I have been the "outcast" of particular groups twice in my adult life. One was as a member of an HOA. People can be so ugly at times. I had my car keyed all the way down one side. I was also told that I should ask God for forgiveness. It takes a strong person to ignore this stuff but unless you feel you are in personal danger, I would let it go. I have said this before, it might consume you to go the legal route and try to claim defamation. I'm not saying to ignore it completely. Continue to attend meetings and ask questions. Point out some of the questionable things the board is doing. You can be respectful when you do that. Share your ideas when you have the opportunity to do so. This will at least keep your name out there in your community. In time, you may consider returning to serving on the board.

You may have some sleepless nights pondering the situation and wondering if you are doing the right thing. I'm just sharing my experience. Only you can decide what action you want to take because you do have a choice.

I guess no financial damages. And I get what you’re saying.

They *did* humiliate and slander me in front of 50 or 60 people, some of whom I’ve known for 25+ years. I don’t mean to argue the point. But it’s going to take awhile to walk that off.

Bill

Respectfully Bill, I don't think you will get anywhere with the police. Unless she goes beyond driving by your house I don't think there is much the police can or will do. If her behavior escalates to trespassing or property damage like I experienced with the keying of my car, I think it might be a waste of your effort. Even then you will have to have some positive proof that it was her. That is when your videos will be beneficial. I certainly hope she doesn't escalate her bad behavior. I have great empathy for you. It's not a fun place to be.

I hear you about the humiliation, but I suggest thinking more about whether you were 'slandered' at the meeting. As a quasi-public official, owners and the rest of the board get a lot of slack when they accuse a president-director of any non-crime and/or poor performance as president-director. I think one wants to continue to try to be as factual as possible.

If you had all the money in the world, an attorney could help vindicate you to some extent, forcing a properly noticed meeting for your removal. But for those who do not want to use money to buy some justice and make their point, there is only this period of (1) making the best choices possible going forward to minimize the suffering; and (2) as is often said these days schadenfreude. The latter means one observes, and enjoys to some extent, what happens to one's detractors and how they screw things up subsequently (as others in this thread have mentioned). I think it's not unhealthy to take some satisfaction from this. Whatever transpires, I suspect growth (learning how to do things better next time) is inevitable.

I think many people would always feel demoralized about what transpired, regardless of how many years pass. The lesson may become "do not volunteer without setting some limits"?

Everyone has their own way of getting through something like this. Good luck.

Personal anecdote:
My former condo association has been trying for about three years now to amend the covenants and bylaws. The association just completed the third attempt to get the required percentage of owners to support the amendments. Amendments include changing the terms of the three directors from one year to staggered, multi-year terms. The board has repeatedly offered various assessment rebates to those who vote. The latest rebate incentivizes voting for the amendments, saying that the rebate occurs only if the amendments pass. Which I suspect is illegal as all get-out.

This past year the board threatened that if the amendments did not pass, the board would vote to pay the HOA attorney to take this to court to get an order for the amendments. I know of nothing in the state's statutes that permits this. (I know California statutes have such a provision. But this condo association is not in California.) Am I entertained? Yes. If the HOA files some kind of petition in court, trying to get a judge to order the covenants and bylaws to be amended, then as an academic matter and to me anyway, this should be darn interesting. Who will represent the other side (arguably, the owners opposing the amendments) in this dispute? The state's statutes are silent on all this. I figure the HOA attorney is operating largely from case law pertaining to covenants.

The above is what I think. Plus I feel like, if the HOA goes to court for an order, and a group of owners filed a response opposing the order, then there's a case for bribery to be made? Vote for what the board wants, and the board will pay you money using owner funds?

Maybe my bribery suggestion is hyperbole. I am torn.

In California, HOAs have to meet several requirements for a court to have the statutory power to amend the covenants, at the HOA's request. I would not call it easy (not that you did). Plus I am reading the California statute now, and it pertains only to amendments of the declaration. The California statute, about court-ordered amendments, is silent about amendments to the bylaws.

I hear you about the advantages of multi-year director terms. But I tend to think that what is in the owners' greater interests is complying with what the governing documents and state law say about amending. "A deal's a deal" and all that. Granted with the occasional exception.

We shall see what the HOA attorney uses to try to get a court order.

BillD16, sorry to derail the thread some.

Oh, not a problem! As several of you have mentioned: I need to step away from HOA matters for awhile; these folks in Italy invited me to exhibit some of my art stuff, so I’ve been focusing on that.

I’m probably not going to go through with the defamation lawsuit, mostly because I wrote up a synopsis of the situation - and then spent the next 24 hours so depressed that I felt sick. I don’t think I have the constitution to see it through.

And there are already a lot of things to schadenfreude over. It’s not exactly making me happy, but there’s some satisfaction in it.

The only thing that bugs me is that the “previous administration” is itching to get back into things. During the Owner Forum, one of them was going on about voting to give one of her friends a gift certificate for her volunteer work; I’m listening, thinking “this is how it all goes to hell, when they begin awarding themselves money out of the public treasury”. But I’ve got 9 months to think about it. A lot can happen.

Best regards to all!

Bill

(I’m not leaving - but I probably won’t have as much to talk about)

Oooo, do tell! Will there be a website people can see, or will we have to travel to Italy? Such a hardship... :-)



Recently I listened to a lawyer from NYC who used to handle the collection end of defamation lawsuits (it's a legal sub-specialty). He said that nationwide, only about 20% of the folks who win their defamation cases ended up seeing a dime. Defendants who lose are very skilled at making themselves judgement proof. So based on that alone, I'd say don't bother unless your case is so egregious and the accusations have done so much damage (eg., you made the national news) that you have no choice.

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And there are already a lot of things to schadenfreude over. It’s not exactly making me happy, but there’s some satisfaction in it.

The only thing that bugs me is that the “previous administration” is itching to get back into things. During the Owner Forum, one of them was going on about voting to give one of her friends a gift certificate for her volunteer work; I’m listening, thinking “this is how it all goes to hell, when they begin awarding themselves money out of the public treasury”. But I’ve got 9 months to think about it. A lot can happen.