Private to public Roads *urgent**

Trying to save money for my community so monthly fees don’t go up by 15$/month in 14 days. It seems like removing the gates and making the roads public is the easiest solution and could even lower our monthly fees. Also, those gates are a totally pain for most people so some would be happy to see them go. Also please note that our streets are very well maintained and have appropriate signs so switching would be easy in that regard. I have questions though:

Will the town not want to just take our roads?
If the do, will the property tax go up so much that it would be more than a 15$/month difference?
Will it help my case for them to take the roads if I tell them there has been crime in the neighborhood and we need patrol? We’ve had homeless people sneaking in and breaking windows.
Will it help my case if we need quicker access to EMT calls since we have many retire people and EMTs have been stuck at the gate in the past?
We also have the public constantly entering our neighborhood anyway. There is a loop that is 3/4th public, then they walk on our private road and turn back into the public area.
We have a pool with a gate so the public can’t just walk in and use it. But we do have parking next to the pool. Can we make sure that parking is still private but the road is public?
We also have a park next to the pool. Will that become a city part? Would that benefit?
See map for reference
Red is our gates
Yellow is our private roads
Green is the public road (gate separates the same street)
Blue is the public walking path
Pink is the parking spaces I would like to keep private

We once attempted to persuade the VDOT to accept our private road into the state system . There was not funds availible even tho we had sufficient lots to be serviced . The estimate was about 11K per lot .

Here’s what I think you may have going for you.

There are many homes/taxpayers
Is it posted private road residents only ? If no signage and the public uses it anyway , that is a plus.

What’s negative ? The city /town /state have construction standards . You may not have the width for the estimated traffic count . There could be utilities in the way / not buried far enough . There will some legal work describing the properties. ( deeds, master deed). The existing yellow road doesn’t connect two differant feeder roads .

In my experience, first this is going to take a lot longer than 14 days. Second you need massive neighbor support. Third, as JoeN6 pointed out, it's highly likely that certain standards have to be met. It's not at all guaranteed that these standards are already met. Fourth, in my experience with one such similar HOA request to a city, and from general reading, no way will the city do this for free. One way the city gets payment for this is by creating a special tax/road/assessment district, whereby owners in this district pay an additional tax.

My first step would be to call the city and see if staff will direct you to the appropriate ordinances and statutes that direct how this is done. Reading these ordinances and statutes is a start to getting informed and taking further steps, IMO.

Yah, $15 a month per unit won't even cover the increase in our master insurance.

Again think taking wrong approach on your budget. Learn more about how a HOA budget operates. It is not like your home or personal budget. Operate like that and your HOA will not have nice things and in debt.

I’m here to learn so I’m not way out of line when the time comes so I really appreciate your input.
The current president had a bid for our landscape company to change to a new company and cost 300$/month less for that expense but he turned it down because he said he didn’t want a new company to learn how to do the job. Even though our current one isn’t the best ever. Now we are locked into a 3 year contract with landscaping. I’m not sure if we can get out of that since they don’t do anything wrong.
The gate and private roads is a pretty big expense and bring up the “value” of our neighborhood which means we need to put more in the reserve ever year. So if we go public won’t that lower the “expense” of having private roads and gates?
Again we already have the negatives of break ins, solicitors, and people who don’t belong in the neighborhood in our pool (key door) so the gate really isn’t stopping people.

Also, the president is only president because no one else wants it. So if I can find a realistic way for the next year then I might see about that area too.

If you are saying it's a good thing that you are making queries here and asking for input before going forward, then I agree this is a good thing, and I appreciate your doing so.

This was a board decision. If the president steam-rolled the rest of the board, oh well. That's their fault. But I also cannot say that the president's reasoning is wrong.

You asked the right question in your first post, about whether the city tax for owners in your neighborhood would be higher or lower than what you all are currently paying via your hoa assessment. It's simply not known at this time.

I think it is important to recognize that this means many (most?) owners there are fine with the status quo. The reason they are fine with it is because they know it's a lot of work, for no pay whatsoever, and they have far more lucrative ways to spend their time.

If you convert the budget to a pdf file less than 200 kilobytes, then you can use the "choose file" option at the bottom of your draft post to attach it. Redact any identifying info, like the HOA name. This site prohibits identifying one's HOA (unless maybe the HOA is in the national news).

But I do not see how seeing your budget would help.

This forum is seeing many reports of massive increases in assessments in the last couple of years. In some cases it is due to inadequate past reserve planning. In some cases it is due to astronomical, triple digit percent increases in insurance. A 50% increase over several years is not shocking.

According to BLS, cumulative inflation in the last 9 years is about 30%. But inflation is specific to what you buy. A HOA does not buy the breadbasket reported as the headline inflation rate. Our biggest expenses are labor, insurance, water, and electricity. These items probably amount to over half our budget. Over the last 5 years, not 9, labor has increased about 40-50%, insurance 125%, water 30%. Electricity is on a commercial multiyear contract. It will jump soon. The electricity for my home just jumped 30% when the purchasing co-op contract was renewed.

If you remove services, like the gate and landscaping, you may save some operating costs, but you may also reduce the sale price of units by a lot more. If the city takes over maintenance of your roads, then you are subject to their whims and dictats, and they may not be maintained. Here, you can sometimes tell when you have moved from one municipality to another by the condition of the roads.

Where I live my house has been inflated by 150% of its cost from 9 years ago. Removing the gates and going public would be something every person gets to vote on as it would affect their resale value. But that lowers the “reserve contribution “ right? Which is an expense too. I just want to let them know an idea of what it would mean. Saving expenses would be the goal so monthly rates are not increased to compensate. Lose amenities instead of putting more money in. We already have a sign ever 30 ft in people yards saying no parking, tow area. Stop signs, yield signs, cross walk paint, red fire hydrant paint. I don’t think people will care about some more signs and paint. The question is…will it be enough of a difference in expenses that our monthly cost doesn’t go up another 15$/month. Maybe even go down a little.

Part of the thought was lowering the value by going public thus lowering the yearly reserve contribution amount. Right now we are at 75% in reserve saving. However last year they put in 120k$ to the reserve, then pull even more out to fix road and sidewalks (that literally only had one crack) and they were allowed to do that cause damaged roads are considered a hazard.

In most documents, "giving away" an amenity (the roads and gates) must be done by a change in the governing documents, not just a vote. Are you willing to work with an attorney to get the documents changed, send out the notices to all members to follow the law, and then have the documents recorded? You realize that there is a cost in working with an attorney. This is not a do-it-yourself project.

Also, you have no idea what the budgets are of the nearby neighborhoods are. Possibly they are not putting away reserve funds, maybe they don't have adequate insurance, maybe your documents have more required expenses in them. You would have to go line by line to compare.

Speak to a real estate agent. Homes in gated communities usually have higher selling prices compared to homes in communities that don't. Are you willing to lower the value of your home just because you don't want to pay an extra $15 per month? Really?

We tried to give our parkway through the community (private road that cuts through to two main county roads) back to the county. They basically laughed at us. First, it wasn't built to DOT standards. Second, they don't want the cost of maintaining it.

It's one thing to object to a budget increase. You can look at all the budget items and see if any contracts can be renegotiated or items dropped. But it's another thing entirely to try and remove an amenity from our HOA and give away land.

You need to slow down and look at this in a logical way.

Nevada statutes say this (among other things):

Within 60 days after adoption of any proposed budget for the common-interest community, the executive board shall provide a summary of the proposed budget to each unit’s owner and shall set a date for a meeting of the units’ owners to consider ratification of the proposed budget not less than 14 days or more than 30 days after the mailing of the summaries. Unless at that meeting a majority of all units’ owners, or any larger vote specified in the declaration, reject the proposed budget, the proposed budget is ratified, whether or not a quorum is present. If the proposed budget is rejected, the periodic budget last ratified by the units’ owners must be continued until such time as the units’ owners ratify a subsequent budget proposed by the executive board.

See https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-116.html

I suspect the above may genuinely conflict with your covenants/bylaws. If there is a genuine conflict, then the statute controls.

Correct, I don’t know the next steps. That’s why I’m here and many other places trying to see. It’s not scary though. The most that happens is the budget is reviewed again. Which could change nothing. Which is now a moot point since the previous post shows in Nevada we will not be able to proxy and I’m dreaming if I think I can get 90 people in a room. Zoom or not.

And I did ask the board. I asked the president. He said it was all due to inflation. When I factor inflation, 165$/month to 180$/month is a 9.09% increase while 2024 predictions are at 3.9%. That would be 171$/month instead of 180$/month for inflation. Which means something to me. So now that it’s proven they will increase beyond inflation by more than double, I would very much like to know where else extra expenses are that may not be valid.

It's "proven"? Have you any idea how many assumptions are involved to come to your conclusion? Do you understand that your assumptions may be wrong?

NA1 had some useful things to say on this point. As well if the reserve funds are not where they should be, inflation will take a particular toll. Finally insurance premiums have gone up much more than the inflation rate.

It needs to be reviewed again. If it’s inflation alone then the numbers seem too high compared to predictions. Our reserves are at 75% which is considered a good percentage so we aren’t making up for that. You posted previously about the conflicting on the proxy. Would you agree that a proxy is valid since it’s considered a voting process?

From the Nevada HOA statute (if it applies), about proxies:

NRS 116.311  Voting by units’ owners; use of absentee ballots and proxies; voting by lessees of leased units; association prohibited from voting as owner of unit; voting without a meeting.

1.  Unless prohibited or limited by the declaration or bylaws and except as otherwise provided in this section, units’ owners may vote at a meeting in person, by absentee ballot pursuant to paragraph (d) of subsection 2, by a proxy pursuant to subsections 3 to 8, inclusive, or, when a vote is conducted without a meeting, by electronic or paper ballot pursuant to subsection 9.

2.  At a meeting of units’ owners, the following requirements apply:

(a) Units’ owners who are present in person may vote by voice vote, show of hands, standing or any other method for determining the votes of units’ owners, as designated by the person presiding at the meeting.

(b) If only one of several owners of a unit is present, that owner is entitled to cast all the votes allocated to that unit. If more than one of the owners are present, the votes allocated to that unit may be cast only in accordance with the agreement of a majority in interest of the owners, unless the declaration expressly provides otherwise. There is majority agreement if any one of the owners cast the votes allocated to the unit without protest being made promptly to the person presiding over the meeting by any of the other owners of the unit.

(c) Unless a greater number or fraction of the votes in the association is required by this chapter or the declaration, a majority of the votes cast determines the outcome of any action of the association.

(d) Subject to subsection 1, a unit’s owner may vote by absentee ballot without being present at the meeting. The association promptly shall deliver an absentee ballot to an owner who requests it if the request is made at least 3 days before the scheduled meeting. Votes cast by absentee ballot must be included in the tally of a vote taken at that meeting.

(e) When a unit’s owner votes by absentee ballot, the association must be able to verify that the ballot is cast by the unit’s owner having the right to do so.

3.  Except as otherwise provided in this section, votes allocated to a unit may be cast pursuant to a proxy executed by a unit’s owner. A unit’s owner may give a proxy only to a member of his or her immediate family, a tenant of the unit’s owner who resides in the common-interest community, another unit’s owner who resides in the common-interest community, or a delegate or representative when authorized pursuant to NRS 116.31105. If a unit is owned by more than one person, each owner of the unit may vote or register protest to the casting of votes by the other owners of the unit through an executed proxy. A unit’s owner may revoke a proxy given pursuant to this section only by actual notice of revocation to the person presiding over a meeting of the association.

4.  Before a vote may be cast pursuant to a proxy:

(a) The proxy must be dated.

(b) The proxy must not purport to be revocable without notice.

(c) The proxy must designate the meeting for which it is executed, and such a designation includes any recessed session of that meeting.

(d) The proxy must designate each specific item on the agenda of the meeting for which the unit’s owner has executed the proxy, except that the unit’s owner may execute the proxy without designating any specific items on the agenda of the meeting if the proxy is to be used solely for determining whether a quorum is present for the meeting. If the proxy designates one or more specific items on the agenda of the meeting for which the unit’s owner has executed the proxy, the proxy must indicate, for each specific item designated in the proxy, whether the holder of the proxy must cast a vote in the affirmative or the negative on behalf of the unit’s owner. If the proxy does not indicate whether the holder of the proxy must cast a vote in the affirmative or the negative for a particular item on the agenda of the meeting, the proxy must be treated, with regard to that particular item, as if the unit’s owner were present but not voting on that particular item.

(e) The holder of the proxy must disclose at the beginning of the meeting for which the proxy is executed and any recessed session of that meeting the number of proxies pursuant to which the holder will be casting votes.

5.  A proxy terminates immediately after the conclusion of the meeting, and any recessed sessions of the meeting, for which it is executed.

6.  Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, a vote may not be cast pursuant to a proxy for the election or removal of a member of the executive board of an association. A vote may be cast pursuant to a proxy for the election or removal of a member of the executive board of a master association which governs a time-share plan created pursuant to chapter 119A of NRS if the proxy is exercised through a delegate or representative authorized pursuant to NRS 116.31105.

7.  The holder of a proxy may not cast a vote on behalf of the unit’s owner who executed the proxy in a manner that is contrary to the proxy.

8.  A proxy is void if the proxy or the holder of the proxy violates any provision of subsections 3 to 7, inclusive.

9.  Unless prohibited or limited by the declaration or bylaws, an association may conduct a vote without a meeting. Except as otherwise provided in NRS 116.31034 and 116.31036, if an association conducts a vote without a meeting, the following requirements apply:

(a) The association shall notify the units’ owners that the vote will be taken by ballot.

(b) The association shall deliver a paper or electronic ballot to every unit’s owner entitled to vote on the matter.

(c) The ballot must set forth each proposed action and provide an opportunity to vote for or against the action.

(d) When the association delivers the ballots, it shall also:

(1) Indicate the number of responses needed to meet the quorum requirements;

(2) State the percentage of votes necessary to approve each matter other than election of directors;

(3) Specify the time and date by which a ballot must be delivered to the association to be counted, which time and date may not be fewer than 3 days after the date the association delivers the ballot; and

(4) Describe the time, date and manner by which units’ owners wishing to deliver information to all units’ owners regarding the subject of the vote may do so.

(e) Except as otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, a ballot is not revoked after delivery to the association by death or disability of or attempted revocation by the person who cast that vote.

(f) Approval by ballot pursuant to this subsection is valid only if the number of votes cast by ballot equals or exceeds the quorum required to be present at a meeting authorizing the action.

10.  If the declaration requires that votes on specified matters affecting the common-interest community must be cast by the lessees of leased units rather than the units’ owners who have leased the units:

(a) This section applies to the lessees as if they were the units’ owners;

(b) The units’ owners who have leased their units to the lessees may not cast votes on those specified matters;

(c) The lessees are entitled to notice of meetings, access to records and other rights respecting those matters as if they were the units’ owners; and

(d) The units’ owners must be given notice, in the manner provided in NRS 116.3108, of all meetings at which the lessees are entitled to vote.

11.  If any votes are allocated to a unit that is owned by the association, those votes may not be cast, by proxy or otherwise, for any purpose.

(Added to NRS by 1991, 563; A 1999, 3006; 2003, 2238; 2009, 2924; 2011, 2442)

This statute section (if it applies) is saying owners have the legal right to vote by proxy. Send this whole section to the manager.

I got ahold of the city. They said won’t take the roads but that if they did it would not increase our individual costs. Which means it would cut out expenses drastically. He said the only way they would take it is if you plead you case to a city councilmen and they agree…now we do have a city councilman that lives in this neighborhood and does not like that there is another large increase after last year.

The councilman in your hood pushing your and his road into the state system sounds like a conflict of interest

Just a general observation:

Given the financial headwinds facing all community associations these days - including steep rises in insurance premiums, inflation, and supply chain issues - I'd be worried if an association is NOT raising assessments. That's the kind of thing that needs explaining, because it suggests that the board is ignoring things it shouldn't be ignoring.

No way do I think a single city councilor can snap his fingers and say "voila," and suddenly, the city is responsible for the upkeep of privately owned roads.

Every other way to "validate" a signature IMO would add a burden to owners that is not in the bylaws. And I know like every newbie director just does not, and will not, get why the board cannot require some kind of authentication for proxies.

If someone does not believe a signature is authentic, or if a board rejects a proxy form because the board thinks the signature was say forged, then each party that is involved has the option to go to court.

"Reasonable belief" is a court-created standard pertaining to many board actions.

This is your main issue. It's clear you have no idea how an HOA works. You aren't going to get a complete education here - because we don't have all your governing documents.

The first thing you need to do is read your governing documents front to back a couple of times. When you moved into the community and bought your property, you signed up to be part of a corporation that's also known as an HOA. You authorized a board of directors to make decisions for the HOA to keep it financially solvent and to take care of the common property. It also sounds like the you are paying for your landscaping and irrigation as part of your HOA monthly payments. If so, check your documents. They probably have every right to come onto your property to make adjustments and repairs - that would be in your governing documents. Are they single-family homes or are they attached homes? And it also sounds like you may have a community pool. Any other amenities? Do you know exactly what the HOA is responsible for?

Part of the duty of the HOA board is to make budgets and collect payments from the owners to pay the expenses. Not only do they have to pay the regular expenses (like the landscaping, the electric bills, the water bills, etc.) but they also have to put money away in a reserve fund to pay for future expenses. You said you just had a reserve study done. The reserve study looks at all of the common areas, like the roads, and tells the association the useful life of everything. So if your roads are going to need to be resurfaced in five years, you need enough money in the reserves to pay for the roads in five years. It sounds like your reserves are not fully funded. Do you even know how much money out of your monthly assessment is going toward your reserves?

I think a lot of the people here, who dedicate a lot of time to volunteering on HOA boards or committees, are a little put off by your attitude that the HOA must be doing something wrong if they are increasing your HOA fees by $15 a month - but you have no clue exactly what is going into that $15 increase. You are making wild assumptions about cost of living and inflation increases. Do you know how many contracts the HOA has - and how much each contract is increasing for next year? What insurance costs are? Property management cost increases are? How much electric and water prices are increasing?

I think we all understand how hard it can be when money is tight and you are trying to save. But you need to educate yourself and look at the big picture - not just that your bills are going to increase by $15 a month. You gave up total control over your home costs when you moved to an HOA.

Hey Sonya I found your neighbiur hood

Ok I think I’ve gotten the information I need. I thank you for the time you’ve spent today educating me. I will take these comments and work on them on my own. I am sorry that most of you were out off by my words. I still think all I was doing is exploring options in the budget. Something to consider is that you may be taking my lack a knowledge as an insult when really I’m grateful for you guys just talking to me.
One of the councilman called me back and said they do not ever take roads once the private ones are build so I’m going to let it go.
I do plan to finish what I started, get proxy’s to have the board revisit the budget. Maybe they increase it 10$/month instead of 15$/month. That would be worth it to me.
Take care everyone and know that you have provided a lot of knowledge to a grateful individual.