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PhilD1 (Florida)
Posts: 17
Posted:
I have a condo that I've owned for some time that I would like to begin leasing. I have heard that it is better if the property ownership is under an LLC rather than the owner's name in the case of a lawsuit by a tenet because it protects the owner's personal assets. My community has a three year restriction on condo owners meaning you can not lease the unit for the first three years of ownership, I am well past that, but would filing at the county to change ownership to an LLC with myself as the registered agent create an issue that would reset the clock on me even though I'm technically still in ownership?

Also, does anyone have any experience with leasing a condo that could vouch for the "LLC" versus "ownership in my name" route being better or making any difference?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PhilD1 on 10/26/2023 3:16 PM
My community has a three year restriction on condo owners meaning you can not lease the unit for the first three years of ownership, I am well past that, but would filing at the county to change ownership to an LLC with myself as the registered agent create an issue that would reset the clock on me even though I'm technically still in ownership?
Technically, you are not still in ownership. This is the price you pay for the protections achieved by transferring ownership to an LLC.

What an interesting question.

In my opinion the three year clock re-starts the instant ownership is transferred to the LLC.

For legal reasons, you do have an obligation to inform the HOA that the LLC is now (or soon will be) the owner.

If I were you, I would ask the board if it would waive the three year requirement, given everything. I bet the board grants a waiver. Though if I were on this board, I would vote against granting a waiver. I would also be working on limiting the percentage of rentals in the condo community.

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
I would hazard a guess that the relevant term is “beneficial ownership”. Eg who owns the LLC? If the owner(s) are the same then you might be ok. That said, I am not a lawyer. Also I wonder if it will really function the same way considering you would still be the owner overall and are telling the association it is still yours. Also what happens to the mortgage, if any. A lawyer should be able to render an accurate opinion.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You are better as an "S Corp" than an LLC. I call an LLC "Whomever draws the short straw does the prison time". It's best left for multiple owners than single.

Here is what you should do. 1st and foremost write your lease that it included following the HOA rules. If they violate the HOA rules, you still have to pay the fines, but you have the power to kick them out. If you do not have this in your lease agreement, then tenants rights will overrule as it's not a condition of the lease. This is NOT in a boilerplate lease agreement.

The good news having a rental your HOA dues and any repairs are now tax deductible. They are NOT if you own and live in the home. When I rented, I would sooner fix my rental property than my own. The expenses on the rental was deductible but not on my own home.

Best to find out how to properly go about renting your home with the HOA. They may have final say of yeah or nay. Just make sure you do BOTH a criminal check AND a credit check before renting. Many HOA's just require criminal. Which is pretty limited. A credit check provides YOU with the social security number in case you must take action. Will tell you eviction is NOT an overnight thing. Where I am at it is a 10 day intent to evict. Another 10 BUSINESS day to actually evict. Then you have a 2 week period before the sheriff office can remove. Technically some renters can refuse to pay rent upwards to a year and get away with it. So know your Tenant's rights laws for your area.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I dont think the LLC is so much the issue compared to, say, a rental percentage cap. If your community is at or over it, it won't matter how you set this up - you still won't be able to rent it out. You (or the LLC) are still responsible for paying assessments and for your tenants' complying with community rules, so 8f that doesn't happen, you (or the LLC) can still be sued.

In remembering some of the tug of wars my community went through with owner-landlords, we found some established LLC because if it was sued, the only asset the association could go after was the rental home. Our attorney also said there have been instances where some were able to "pierce the corporate veil" to go after the people behind the LLC. There's a lot of legal bafflegab behind that and pursuing that in court take time and isn't cheap. 8f you want to know more about that, ask an attorney to research this for you - what may be true in my state doesn't necessarily apply to yours.

I say all this knowing that I have a dim view of owner-landlords anyway, so if you're going that route, I hope you aren't greedy AF. You may not live in the condo you rent out, but you still own it and are a neighbor to the people living around it. Whatever you decide to do, don't be an ass and try to rent to nice people. No one should be able to tell who rents or is an owner occupant because everyone shoukd pay assessments in full and on time, and comply with community rules.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I agree that the clock would start over.

As for better protections if an LLC - consult with an attorney. It may or may not be worth it.
IRS tax form 1120 is a pain to complete and typically requires a CPA.
MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
If you are in Florida and have been living in a condo for awhile, I would sell the condo and take the capital gains tax free. You can always buy another place if you want to be a landlord.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Tim is right about talking to a lawyer and maybe an accountant. Transferring title to an LLC has benefits and drawbacks. The downsides include no longer qualifying for a traditional mortgage, no longer enjoying the tax advantages available to an owner-occupant (eg. sheltering a portion of the capital gains if you sell the home), and the added complications of filing taxes in general. I actually looked into doing something similar for the asset protections of an LLC, not because I wanted to rent out my home. I concluded that, for me, there are easier ways to protect my personal assets.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Not to mention that being a landlord is a pain in the posterior. Rental property isn't an investment, it's a business. It's a business that can call you in the middle of the night because the toilets are plugged up.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
That's a really interesting question to consider. Our three condo sub-associations all have two year restrictions on renting, but I'm pretty sure they would be willing to waive the time-period if you were just converting to an LLC.

However, we have a capital contribution for the master association that is required on change of ownership. I don't know if we would be willing to waive that.

Finally, if you're considering leasing you probably know the requirements of your association, but be prepared that background and rental checks for owners are usually required, a security deposit from the landlord is usually required, and if your tenant misbehaves, the landlord (even if an LLC) is still responsible for any issues or damages.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
A more common situation is when an owner transfers ownership to a trust -- not necessarily for rentals but for estate planning. It happens fairly often. How would an association handle that (with respect to the waiting period)?

If the owner is the trustee, then there may not be a transfer of ownership? What if the trustee is an adult child of the owner? Comments?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 10/27/2023 9:14 AM
A more common situation is when an owner transfers ownership to a trust -- not necessarily for rentals but for estate planning. It happens fairly often. How would an association handle that (with respect to the waiting period)?

If the owner is the trustee, then there may not be a transfer of ownership?
In my opinion, a transfer of ownership still takes place.

Typically the point of putting a home in a trust is so that, when Jane Doe who originally owned the homes dies, the home will not be a part of the Jane Doe's estate. Meaning the home was not technically owned by Jane Doe.

I continue to think Boards are likely to be generous on the point. I would not, as for one, it may open a can of worms when other owners come wanting xyz, but that's just myself.
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
It depends on the conditions of the trust, revocable/irrevocable, who is the beneficial owner and whether that has changed, and the purpose. Trustee is irrelevant. That is just the manager.

FWIW the city and state I live in do not consider that a change of ownership automatically.

A life estate is another form of title change where the owner gives the property to someone else, typically their heirs, but retains the right to live there. Also there are trusts for disabled children or siblings who live there.

Generally I don’t think these are meaningful changes in ownership for purposes of condo management if the people still live there. Consult your lawyer.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PhilD1 on 10/26/2023 3:16 PM
I have a condo that I've owned for some time that I would like to begin leasing. I have heard that it is better if the property ownership is under an LLC rather than the owner's name in the case of a lawsuit by a tenet because it protects the owner's personal assets. My community has a three year restriction on condo owners meaning you can not lease the unit for the first three years of ownership, I am well past that, but would filing at the county to change ownership to an LLC with myself as the registered agent create an issue that would reset the clock on me even though I'm technically still in ownership?

Also, does anyone have any experience with leasing a condo that could vouch for the "LLC" versus "ownership in my name" route being better or making any difference?

LLC vs carrying an umbrella liability insurance policy is what you need to consider. Either option is valid. Both are an expense.

The LLC will require you to keep stringently separate operations records and accounts, plus you pay annual fees to the State and file an additional (if small) tax return associated with the LLC. If you mess up and spend "personal" money on your LLC condo, you run the risk of ruining the legal protection afforded by the LLC structure because a good plaintiff's attorney will show that your LLC isn't separate from You.

The Umbrella Insurance policy will cover you for general liability so, if sued, it's there as a backstop. It, too, is personal protection. Carry a couple million dollars of liability coverage.

Honestly, I had a financial/wealth advisor preach an LLC to me. When I went to an attorney, they said solid insurance coverage will do the trick. A CPA told me that LLCs should be considered once the cost of the liability insurance policies exceed the cost of setting up and maintaining LLCs, including tax prep.

Of course, we all generally disclaim that you should consult an attorney because we're offering our personal opinion from which you make your own independent decisions free from our influence.
PhilD1 (Florida)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Sorry for coming back to this so late, computer issues and personal life went nuts for a bit. Thank you all for the suggestions, I'll have to take some time to read through them and to see what course of action works best. I agree that the landlord position might not be the job I'd most like, but I'm considering it since I'm not far off from paying it off but I'd still like to move. The values unfortunately aren't the best right now even with the Florida market being what it is, so holding on to it for a future sale or even a fall back position seemed like a good thing to do.

Regarding the start over, I'm pretty sure the Board would look to restart the clock because they've tried floating a "no LLC" rule that hasn't come up on ballot as of yet. I'll have to check with an attorney, but also check the histories on other properties to see if it's been granted in the past.

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