💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Our annual election for one seat on the board is Thursday night 10/19.
This year, the management company asked that every one vote by today, the 17th and give them their proxy. On Thursday night they'll just give the total out.
I called the management company today and said I was bringing in four proxies and they said I'm not allowed to carry in a proxy to the meeting; that the 'person voting' has to submit it to them directly, by today and tell them that I am their proxy person.
Now, my neighbor (WHO IS RUNNING FOR THE OPEN POSITION) has 24 proxies that people gave him. The MGMT COMP. said he can bring him in today and they'll count them for Thursday. His question is how is that different if he hands in their proxies today or if he hands them in on the election night Thursday? He's still giving them somebody else's proxy.(these proxies are not sealed in envelopes. They were e-mailed to all h/o this year.)
My question to you is the is does anyone know if a new South Carolina law says a person cannot 'carry in' a neighbor's proxy?
ps. Last year, the president carried in 60 proxies voting for himselfand they counted them. Why is it different from this year?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 10/17/2023 11:52 AM
Our annual election for one seat on the board is Thursday night 10/19.
This year, the management company asked that every one vote by today, the 17th and give them their proxy. On Thursday night they'll just give the total out.
I called the management company today and said I was bringing in four proxies and they said I'm not allowed to carry in a proxy to the meeting; that the 'person voting' has to submit it to them directly, by today and tell them that I am their proxy person.
Now, my neighbor (WHO IS RUNNING FOR THE OPEN POSITION) has 24 proxies that people gave him. The MGMT COMP. said he can bring him in today and they'll count them for Thursday. His question is how is that different if he hands in their proxies today or if he hands them in on the election night Thursday? He's still giving them somebody else's proxy.(these proxies are not sealed in envelopes. They were e-mailed to all h/o this year.)
My question to you is the is does anyone know if a new South Carolina law says a person cannot 'carry in' a neighbor's proxy?
ps. Last year, the president carried in 60 proxies voting for himselfand they counted them. Why is it different from this year?
If your bylaws do not have the restrictions on voting that you listed above, then the MC with the board's support is breaking the law.

However I doubt that you will be able to convince them of this. Chances are you would have to hire an attorney to communicate the illegalities here and be persuasive.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 10/17/2023 11:52 AM
Our annual election for one seat on the board is Thursday night 10/19.
This year, the management company asked that every one vote by today, the 17th and give them their proxy. On Thursday night they'll just give the total out.
I called the management company today and said I was bringing in four proxies and they said I'm not allowed to carry in a proxy to the meeting; that the 'person voting' has to submit it to them directly, by today and tell them that I am their proxy person.
Now, my neighbor (WHO IS RUNNING FOR THE OPEN POSITION) has 24 proxies that people gave him. The MGMT COMP. said he can bring him in today and they'll count them for Thursday. His question is how is that different if he hands in their proxies today or if he hands them in on the election night Thursday? He's still giving them somebody else's proxy.(these proxies are not sealed in envelopes. They were e-mailed to all h/o this year.)
My question to you is the is does anyone know if a new South Carolina law says a person cannot 'carry in' a neighbor's proxy?
ps. Last year, the president carried in 60 proxies voting for himselfand they counted them. Why is it different from this year?

Expecting that your Association is incorporated, most are but check to be sure, SC corporate code applies.

Check the section on Proxies, SECTION 33-31-724.

You might have to push the issue, but if your MC is licensed and they still refuse the proxies, make a complaint against the MC license.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What do your Bylaws state about voting, i.e, do they say something like "all votes submitted in person or by proxy at the annual meeting shall be counted?

Or is there wording similar to our Bylaws? "Ballots must be received by the Inspectors [vote counters] by a fixed deadline which may be one or more days before the votes are counted."

Do your Bylaws state WHO is permitted to submit ballots

Don't your Bylaws say anything about ballots being counted in a place where Owners can observe the tabulations?

Now here's one to which maybe the wise veteran JohnC of SC might be able to contribute.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Hello our by laws say, " voting members may vote in person or by proxy."
Then it moves on to majority...
This got more bizarre. My neighbor went down to hand in the proxies to the management company and they said he couldn't submit any proxies that had his name on it as the proxy. So I had to get in my car, drive down six miles and hand in the proxies that 24 people appointed him to be their proxy.
And he had to hand in the 4 proxies where the h/O had appointed me to be their proxy.
and - He asked for a copy of the ruling, and she said, I can't give you a copy of the ruling because, "he isn't a law clerk. He would have to look it up on his own."
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
So to sum it up, the management company is saying that all proxies had to be in two days early; that you couldn't bring a proxy to the election meeting on Thursday; and that I couldn't submit a proxy handed to me from my sister and my neighbors appointing me as their proxy that I had to give it to somebody else to submit. And they're saying they couldn't give me a copy of that SC ruling.
There are 2 people running for 1 position.
The current board does not want to be broken up, the 5 have been in for 6 years. And the management company seems to be backing them up.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
SC law section 33-31-727 . a) If the name signed on a vote, consent, waiver, or proxy appointment corresponds to the name of a member, the corporation if acting in good faith is entitled to accept the vote, consent, waiver, or proxy appointment and give it effect as the act of the member.

This seems to be the relevant point of the South Carolina law.
As long as I bring in a proxy from a 'neighbor', and their name is correctly listed as a member of the community, I can vote for them.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I say your MC is wrong in calling for proxies to be submitted prior to the actual meeting. I say one can walk into to meeting and register themselves any proxies they are holding at that time.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Yes, I agree. a neighbor received two more proxies tonight after 6:00 PM. Now the election is Thursday. I told him to bring them in and that the management company better accept them as valid proxies. There's no reason they had to be turned in two days early. And if they deny these two votes, I think then we have issues. I have read the South Carolina law. Thank you for your help. Very few homeowners actually show up at meetings. That's why we need the proxies to get at least 1/2 of the quorum (51% h/o) after 1 adjournment.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Hello again, this just got worse. Another neighbor received 2 two proxies last night and an e-mail from the mgmt co today. They won't be counted.
Our election meeting is tomorrow night at the clubhouse, however, the mgmt company just sent a letter out which said, we won't be accepting any more of the proxies they had to be in by Tuesday; that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes. They have to look at the proxy, check it off against the list of h/o and addresses; then they make a copy of it, and tally it.. that they can't do that on the election night.
So basically they're holding the election in their office two days before our annual election meeting and anyone that shows up at the election to vote in person or by proxy won't be counted. This is appalling. We've had 15 elections with five different management companies. We've never had a problem.
What are they talking about? We only get about 60 votes out of 231 homes. That's what they do at the meeting. Two h/o tally the votes, check off the homeowners list and count them. There's only two people running.
So basically, the election was yesterday, behind the closed doors at mgmt office and not our clubhouse- Any advice.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne

The MC is wrong and also they will not listening to you. You can try and show the BOD how wrong the MC is or lawyer up and go after the MC.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Yes. It is not a matter of who wins. It's a matter of a fair community election process. I doubt that our contract with our management company includes them counting our board election proxies.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne

One of our PM's duties is to run our election at our Annual Meeting. They log in each person attending and collect proxies to establish a Quorum. As we allow nominations from the floor we do not pre make ballots. Ballots are handed out at the meeting and if voting for someone, you write their name on the ballot. Ballots are collected and proxies added for a final count. The PM and the Secretary do the actual count. The BOD does send out a proxy with the Annual Meeting notice naming the BOD as the proxy holder. This does, in some ways, leave the BOD in control depending on how many proxies are received.

All that said, only once in 7 years have we had more candidates then open BOD positions (staggered two year terms so 3 open one year, two open the next year). Typically we have to go begging for candidates and we often end up needing to appoint one or two. The Pres. and myself (VP) are now 5 years on the BOD. We two pretty much run the place and the other BOD Members and our owners are happy with the way we do things. We hide nothing. We will show anyone, anything they want to see and typically get only one or two requests per year usually from new owners wanting to catch up. Even our two main CCO's (Chief Complaining Officers) have been silent for a year or two.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 10/18/2023 7:52 AM
Yes. It is not a matter of who wins. It's a matter of a fair community election process. I doubt that our contract with our management company includes them counting our board election proxies.

Lynne, are you accusing them of being dishonest? You could always request they bring any proxies they received and have someone on your BOD observe the final count done at the meeting.

LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
The point is, the election is tomorrow night. People should be able to vote at the meeting tomorrow night. The proxies should be submitted, opened and tallied There is a homeowner list. You just check off on the list to see that the person voting is a homeowner.
And yes, this leaves open the question if the incumbent didn't have enough votes to stay on the board, today, the 5 board members go out and try to get 6,7,8, or 10 more votes-enough to win tomorrow, because in our community, the management company is working for the five Board of Directors only.
Our HOA president sent out an e-mail stating "vote for incumbent jane doe or the new guy will raise your HOA dues. "
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Today was the election. The meeting was called to order. We didn't have 51% quorum so they adjourned for 5 minutes and reconvened, at which point we would need 59 votes instead of 118. They didn't allow two people who had proxies to submit them. That was five votes that they did not allow to be counted because they wanted the proxies in two days ago. So they give the proxies back if you show up, which I showed up, they gave me a ballot and I filled it out. They put on the bottom of my ballot a #3X, I had submitted three proxies. The man running for the board position against the incumbent had submitted 30 proxies. He had 6X at the bottom of his ballot. I asked why they didn't say 30. And they said they weren't counting the 30 proxies that he submitted two days ago.
They weren't counting any votes unless the H/O themselves who filled out the proxy submitted the proxy at least two days ago. Not today. Not yesterday. A fight broke out. Everyone started yelling that if somebody gave in a proxy, it should have been counted. I left during the fight so, I found out, they disqualified my vote and the three proxies that I brought in.
The Mgmt company only had 29 votes for the incumbent. She won without having the 1/2 quorum... although they didn't count any of those voided proxies, they were going count them towards the 1/2 quorum. Now, JohnC46, you asked me, did I think they were going to be dishonest. What do you think. The fighting started because they said that we did not understand what the word proxy meant, and that the proxy had to be signed by the homeowner, submitted by them by SC law 2 days early. I said, there's no law in South Carolina. That says that a proxy is filled out by somebody signed and given to somebody else to bring in.
I am exhausted.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
And to clarify, they're saying the homeowner had to submit their own proxy directly to them, not the proxy holder. I was the named proxy holding my sister's and 2 neighbors votes. They should have been counted - it was on the mgmt's company blank form, they were signed, dated, addressed, and name printed with a builder's lot # to boot.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here