Good Ideas for Open Virtual Meetings

Started by KerryL1 • 18 replies • 504 views

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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

1/1/24, Civil Code 4926 will permit 100% virtual meetings in CA HOAs. This is a boon for HOAs with no meeting rooms. We've had hybrid meetings in my HOA for over 3 years now. Our president in '20 had just retired as an IT Director at a national org, so. got us up to speed early. I’ll ask our Board to consider some new open meeting policies, too.

Some summarized ideas from the below author, with my remarks after a :

Require participants to state their names and HOA addresses so everyone knows who’s attending.

Require that attendees have their cameras on, which helps confirm their right to attend: And, after all, they can see board members and in-person attendees. To me, this matters a lot so that in-person attendees and directors can see members’ body language and facial expressions, which can give useful info to add to boards’ decision-making processes. at Present, about 15 owners attend on Zoom(and 15 in person) and all except 3 hide their faces.

Consider banning any visual displays other than the participant’s location: Not an issue in my HOA. BUT, during election seasons, an attendee may have HOA or national campaign posters visible. Or advertisements. Or porn.

Set up the meeting so that all participants are automatically muted and only the administrator/host may unmute attendees.

Make it clear that meetings will not be recorded and that the HOA does not consent to making recordings from the virtual broadcast.

Richardson wrote: “In three years of virtual or hybrid meetings I have seen some amazingly offensive statements made in the chat box of virtual platforms. …Consider a policy that the chat box will be disabled. Open forum should be verbal, not through chat notes.” Again, not a problem for my HOA, but apparently in others!

Calif. HOA member will want to read the entire article. I didn't include every suggestion. Still many points look helpful for any HOA in the USA that holds open virtual meetings.

https://www.roattorneys.com/blog/breaking-news-virtual-meetings-are-now-a-reality
Oct 08, 2023. By Kelly G. Richardson, Esq., CCAL

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Kerry,
I must admit that I will never serve on a board that uses zoom meetings. For the following reasons.

1) They are very distracting to the person running the meeting.
2) People popping in and out.
3) Un muted attendees yelling at kids.
4) Chat is a disaster if a controversial topic comes up.
5) Every person who posts a chat message expects it to be answered right away.
6) Other owners answer chat questions with wrong answers and the asker thinks they got it from the board.
7) People on a computer are 100% more likely to ack out than in person.
8) If a board member is watching the chat, they are not paying the attention they should to the motions being discussed.

I am sure I can think of many more reason in time. We fortunately have a community center and as soon as the restrictions lifted, we were back on with in person meetings. A few people asked for the Hybrid style meeting and in our case because of the acoustics in our building the sound would be intolerable for all involved.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I guess I should have entitled this differently. it's for those who DO use Zoom and are interested in more effective meetings.

Omigosh, Mark. We've never had ANY of the problems that you seem to have had? Or, heard about? Most seem to relate chat which isn't an issue in my HOA. Apparently it can be disabled. Our attendees are muted. Having been involved in as a director or attended probably 40 such meetings none of your nightmare scenarios ever occurred.

The "worst" that happened is an owner who'd just sought to fill a vacancy on the Board, fell asleep on camera during a social meeting on the reserves.

I like them because to me the more owners who attend board meetings, the better. An at least partly educated citizenry is a good thing, I feel. We have a few elderly owners, and others who get home from work when the meeting is underway and just pop right in with no disturbance (unlike when they barge in late to an in-person meeting).

I do think early on there were issues with background noise in the system but that was quickly resolved by our IT-expert president.

Another nice benefit is that charts, graphs, etc can easily displayed for every attendee to clearly see. Our reserves specialist showed us a lot in his special presentation to the Board and owners.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Kerry,
I guess I just prefer the way things have always been and whether you love the board or hate the board we got to look at each other in person. I also think that people tuning into to a zoom call are not really present and are easily distracted by family and everything around them. If they have an issue and they want to know more about what is happening in the HOA, they are welcome to attend. I have had ladies complain that said they do not have babysitters to watch the children. We did a test and had a Wine and Painting event on the same day as our quarterly meetings and it filled up in record time and the same people that complained about childcare were at the events. It is about priorities IMO.

I guess the reason why I am so sour on zoom meetings is we had an election during 2020 that was hotly contested and our PMC and Pm assured me that the online votes could be done safely and accurately. I had 3 meetings with them beforehand. When the votes were read the PMC read the totals incorrectly and the losers all went crazy claiming voter fraud. In the end it was just an error that should not have been made but it caused us to spend needless funds getting lawyers opinions and in the end the incumbents which I was one were elected. The next few meetings were shout fests. I promised I would never go back in the future.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I understand, Mark. You DID have nightmare scenarios!! My post truly is for those who DO for a swell-respected CA HOA lawyer.

The article with good ideas for those who DO have virtual meetings didn't include Zoom voting because electronic voting still isn't permitted in CA. Sorry yours turned out so awful!! But glad it add well.

I have learned over the many years I served, btw, to check for myself especially on new policies, etc. Our PMC's interpretations, advice, etc. They've been wrong too often. Our current PM & his asst. are very weak in certain ways tho' strong in others. I swear they each have reading disabilities.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Kerry,
I loved the "Reading Disability" comment.

Funny thing since we went back to live meetings have not had any issues and attendance has picked up. We still have poor attendance considering only about 10 owners attend on a regular basis in an HOA with 1450+ SFHs.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

I have to use chat because my internet is lousy and I can't be heard. But you can specify all chats be directed to one person who can sift through them.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/16/2023 4:24 PM

1/1/24, Civil Code 4926 will permit 100% virtual meetings in CA HOAs. This is a boon for HOAs with no meeting rooms. We've had hybrid meetings in my HOA for over 3 years now. Our president in '20 had just retired as an IT Director at a national org, so. got us up to speed early. I’ll ask our Board to consider some new open meeting policies, too.

Some summarized ideas from the below author, with my remarks after a :

Require participants to state their names and HOA addresses so everyone knows who’s attending.

Require that attendees have their cameras on, which helps confirm their right to attend: And, after all, they can see board members and in-person attendees. To me, this matters a lot so that in-person attendees and directors can see members’ body language and facial expressions, which can give useful info to add to boards’ decision-making processes. at Present, about 15 owners attend on Zoom(and 15 in person) and all except 3 hide their faces.

Consider banning any visual displays other than the participant’s location: Not an issue in my HOA. BUT, during election seasons, an attendee may have HOA or national campaign posters visible. Or advertisements. Or porn.

Set up the meeting so that all participants are automatically muted and only the administrator/host may unmute attendees.

Make it clear that meetings will not be recorded and that the HOA does not consent to making recordings from the virtual broadcast.

Richardson wrote: “In three years of virtual or hybrid meetings I have seen some amazingly offensive statements made in the chat box of virtual platforms. …Consider a policy that the chat box will be disabled. Open forum should be verbal, not through chat notes.” Again, not a problem for my HOA, but apparently in others!

Calif. HOA member will want to read the entire article. I didn't include every suggestion. Still many points look helpful for any HOA in the USA that holds open virtual meetings.

https://www.roattorneys.com/blog/breaking-news-virtual-meetings-are-now-a-reality
Oct 08, 2023. By Kelly G. Richardson, Esq., CCAL

Quite timely and interesting for us here at Rejoov of Austin!

Yeah, we’re not in California. But we’re having our yearly budget adoption open meeting tomorrow night over ZOOM. And we’re planning to do some of the things mentioned:

- everyone starts off muted
- I don’t know if we can require cameras on. There may be something in the current law that. requires that people can attend audio-only via the telephone.
- we’re turning chat off for the entire meeting. It makes sense for a number of reasons.
- requiring participants to state their name and address sounds like a good idea. Dunno if we’ll get away with it. I’d personally also like to ask if they are an owner or a tenant - currently, that might not go well.
- I differ on recording: I think we should record it at least the audio, because even if we say “no recording”, people can and will record it. I’d like to have our “official” recording just in case someone produces a creative unofficial recording.

Our upcoming meeting is probably going to tick people off - DBLady and friends have many people frothing at the mouth, and people have been posting to FB about attending this meeting and “making democracy work!” and it’s going to be about the least democratic thing they can imagine; this is the required budget adoption open meeting. We’re having an Owner Forum at the end, where people can speak for 3 minutes, but our lawyer has advised us to avoid discussion of certain sensitive topics. We’re waiting for clarification about whether that means the Board says “no comment” or if we’re supposed to shut down comments that touch on private issues (like individual violations). At least a couple of attendees plan to make motions from the floor - but I don’t think that that will work.

The unfortunate fact is that an apparently large number of people here don’t understand that we don’t run by plebiscite.

It’s gonna be interesting.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Bill,
You mention asking if a person attending is an owner or renter. I do not think renter are allowed to attend HOA meetings. This is another reason why Zoom meetings are a bad idea in my opinion.

Our assistant PM gets attendees in person to sign in and she checks to make sure they are owners in the process, she has never had to ask anyone to leave yet, but a zoom meeting adds to the degree of difficulty with this issue.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

With MarkM, do you really allow renters in your "MEMBERS?" (owners) meetings, BillD? I guess I've heard of a scant few HOAs that do, but my HOA certainly does not and Mark's current and I bet past HOA didn't either.

Yes, of course, immediately shut down any "questions" about violations. There are any question you can say needs further research by your PM or board.

This is very important, BillD. MarkM probably knows the answer to this: Must any item for a vote be listed on the agenda that's posted in advance of the meeting of the members ? (or any open meeting?) Put another way, can any owner raise their hand and say "I make a motion that the pool be open year round 24/7?" If not sure, make quick call to your attorney. VERY important.

I take only ratification of the budget is listed on the agenda?

If an attorneys I option in my above, your PM should verify that every on Zoom and in person is an Owner. Fifth on Zoom and not o an owner it's easy to mute them and shut down their video. But, oh, oh, does the written notice of this meeting, which I;'m sure must be given out xx days in advance actually invite renters????

I agree it might be hard to ask all Zoom. attendees to show on vid. I think if your want to, your Board can make a policy that all must. (I'm still trying to figure out how to do that in my HOA)

Probably too late to ask, but in your situation with the DL, etc., I'd hav asked the Board to approve the attorney's attendence. where do you meeti for in-person attendees? Or is everyone remote???

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Kerry,
The only items that can be discussed, motioned and voted on are posted on the agenda 10 days prior to the scheduled meeting. If an owner were to raise their hand and make a motion, I would remind them of the rules. I would probably make a joke out of it and ask them if they were practicing for when they actually get elected to the board.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So, BillD, see MarkM's very useful reply AND his suggestion for handling those who erroneously think they can make a motion on a matter not listed on the posted agenda in advance of the meeting. Like his light touch too.

When you open the meeting, I think it might be good if you notify attendees that TX statutes does not permit any motions or votes except for items on this perviously-posted agenda. I'd remind them again before open forum. Chances are excellent that 0 or very few owners know this statute.

I'm remembering a few board meetings in my HOA when there was controversy about topics. The last time I saw this was in late 2019. All 6 board members sat at the table with the grimmest, most hostile facial expressions I'd EVER seen. It was a year with a terrible prez. And It was a terrible meeting with a lot of angry owners.

IMO, a different presider would alert board members beforehand with the following. "Look, we know that there'll be hostile attendees tonight. Let's present ourselves and our demeanors as calm and serious, yet friendly. We're neighbors, after all," or some such. I always think it's good touch to welcome owners and say how much yay and the Board appreciate thier interest in "our community."

LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Here’s a problem with Zoom meetings: I was disconnected in the middle of the last meeting because I questioned the legality of something the president was doing. The action was clearly illegal, so he unilaterally decided to just disconnect me instead of addressing it (there was no vote). I have no idea how to deal with this – if anyone has any helpful thoughts (please, no snark, it’s been a long day), please share.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Boards usually don't respond to owner comments in real time, beyond "thank you for your comments". The reasons are practical and legal.

boards can't take action without considering the topic and voting on it, so it would have to wait. It especially has to wait in an open meeting state where the topic was not on the agenda. In addition, many topics require research first, and this can't happen during a meeting.

And muting someone who is trying to hijack the meeting or start an argument is appropriate, although it would be courteous to say "you're out of order" before muting them.

If you want to question the legality of something, do your own research first to make sure you have your facts straight. Then put your comments in writing, including legal citations, so that the board can investigate and possibly consult the association attorney before addressing the issue in another meeting.

LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Cathy – you are missing the point.

The point is I was disconnected from the meeting. Not muted. Disconnected because I did my research and had my facts straight and they did not want to have to face what they had done.

And the question is what can I do about it?

PhilD1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

A few issues I recall when the Board used Zoom.

1. Older residents could not attend to not having smart phones or computers (this was a minimal issue, but legally I think it's important.
2. Distractions as stated above, popping in and out, dogs barking, background noise distraction.
3. Managers had free reign on accepting people in the queue to join which allows abuse. Several meeting were held where outspoken residents were not let in due to "whoopsie, technical difficulties".
4. Our association only used the free version which was 60 minutes. A lot time gets eaten up with "can you turn down you volume?" or "what? your mic cut out" issues, so every meeting got cut off. Also, the free version only allowed 100 members, my association is over 200. So, is that legal to limit the size of the meeting and not allowing more than half to attend?
5. Sitting at home gives on a meeting loses the decorum of the meeting, residents seemed to become a lot more combative (and inebriated) as they felt comfortable in their homes to do so.

Essentially, nothing got accomplished in our Zoom meetings, but I'm sure a good board and manager could do better.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm so sorry that I didn't make clear that my post offers an HOA's attorney's suggestions on using Zoom if your HOA does. It's not about the pros & cons of Zoom. I guess our HOA is lucky to have a good manager and a good presider.

But I too, prefer in poses meetings because I'm such a visual person who needs to see facial expressions, body language, etc. to try to "read" a situation. But virtual meetings are here to stay and CA HOAs, if they wish, eff. 1/24, may have open meetings entirely on Zoom.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Phil,
Your list is very similar to mine with a few great additions. IMO the PM should not be the bouncer on zoom meetings as they should be taking notes and prepared to answer board questions as the meeting progresses. That means who else is going to do it? If a board member try's they will not be able to follow the meeting as they should. Hire someone to handle it is a expense that makes no sense to me.

The HOAs that do it and find it works for them I say keep it. For the rest of us I am fine it I am never the president of another board that uses it for meetings.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I need to see my own typing better: I meant "in-person."

Liz, in your HOA of 4 units in one building,, attending in person might work better for you.

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