Pool and Spa Heating

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

I'm sure our HOA s not alone in this delema regarding heating of pools and spas. Every year we have the same argument, which pools to heat? How long? How hot?

So here is the drama this year. We have three pools and three spas for 40 homes. Last year we heated two of the pools all year round and all three spas all year round. The cost was prohibitive so this year we sent out an informal survey to our homeowners and received 31 responses. Overwhelmingly they voted for heating only one pool and one spa during the winter months so that's what we (the Board of Directors) voted unanimously to heat only one pool and one spa from October to March with the option to heat it longer if necessary. We elected to heat the pool nearest the middle of the complex being it's the most accessible for the majority of houses.

Now the drama. Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

These two homeowners are lawyers so the legalese in their communications is a little confusing to us as laypersons. However, we feel we are on solid ground having made our decisions based on feedback from our homeowners but it's hard to find definitive information regarding where we stand. Our finances are very tight and I believe it is the intention of these two to compel us to give in to their demands in order to save our HOA huge legal expenses.

I feel like ignoring their demands and letting them take their best shot; however, I do not want to be part of the Board of Directors who drag our HOA into its first ever lawsuit.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Dear sirs,

Thank you for sharing your position. For the following reasons, the board's position is unchanged. First, the board does not consider operating the pools at certain temperatures to be "maintenance." It's the difference between operating a motor vehicle and maintaining a motor vehicle. Setting a pool temperature is akin to setting the vehicle's cruise control. Second, the Board interprets "uniform plan" to mean inter alia that any maintenance done must ensure that each owner has available to him or her exactly what every other owner has available to him or her. This is the case with the pools: Each owner has available to him or her a choice to use any of the three pools.

Sincerely yours,

The Board of Directors

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

LmT,
I am still shocked by the 3 Pool and 3 Spas for 40 homes. We have 1 Large Pool for over 1450 SFHs. I am not sure how 40 homes couldn't share 1 Pool during the slowest seasons. They are being unreasonable and should be ignored. If you have to address the issue, I like ElleN letter, but I might add the funds needed to operate each Pool during the Winter months when the weather is working Hard against you.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM

Now the drama. Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

Are there only two lot owners asking (petitioning) the board or did they obtain the required number of homeowners to hold a special membership meeting?

If there is enough to hold a special meeting, or if the board is truly concerned about potential legal action, I would hold a special meeting but frame it in the form of assessment increase needed to heat all the pools year round. I expect you have historical data to allow you to figure out the expected cost to make this happen. Explain that some members have expressed a concern that the Association should have planned to heat all three pools and the Board has determined it would require a x% increase in assessments. Explain that the board believes that it can pay to heat one pool at the current level and recommends a vote against raising assessments for the purpose of heating all three pools. However, due to the threat of legal action, the board puts the assessment increase to a vote.

I would expect a large turnout and the measure to be voted down.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Kudos to you & your Board. A return of your survey of 31 out of a population of 40 is amazing!! There were no dual responses from any home, right?

If you bother responding to them (maybe not "sirs?"), and I appreciate your concerns, I'd remind them of the survey results. I'd also (nicely) require them to exactly cite the sections of your CC&Rs that show every recreational feature in your HOA must be accessible for residents's use 24/7/365. They must show you your CC&R's definition of "maintenance" or if not obvious a dictionary definition of maintenance.

I don't know about SFHs, but our multistory condo has a Maintenance Manual. Maybe all developers must provide one at turnover to the Owners in CA. They're needed, in part, to craft a reserve study. But also, of course, they're needed so that the HOA's employees or vendors know how "maintain" the sprinkling system, the lighting system, the pool's mechanical equipment & pumps, etc.

Our HOA Board sets the hours of the gym, of our (lone) pool & spa, of our 2 Party Rooms, of our Conference Room. It decides the temperature of the gym, spa, pool and common area lobbies and residential corridors. In some areas, exterior lighting is on timers and the Board decides what times they should be on/off. Decision s about the USE of the commons era always is the Board's unless those two can show you otherwise.

Boards have every right to set the hours of usage of any common area. Maybe play around with the below.

Dear xx & xx,

We appreciate your interest in our community. As you learned from our recent survey of Owners, a whopping xx% of the xx respondents were in favor of xx xx. It's good to know that so many of our fellow owners share your Board's interest in trying to reduce our expenses!

It's your belief, however, that the Board is not upholding its obligation to have a plan to maintain our common areas. Please cite for us the sections of our declaration that equate setting reasonable hours for the use of our common area amenities with our documents' definition of "maintenance."

Our understanding of a "uniform maintenance plan" is the various schedules we have with our vendors to service the pools/spas and their equipment along with the mechanical and electrical components of our community. Our plan includes the schedule we have with our landscapers. This plan adheres to our community's Maintenance Manual, which you may review at any time. In it you shall see a preventive maintenance schedule for many component with which our vendors comply.

If you wish to proceed further with your concerns, please show us the sections in our declaration that you believe we will violate by our owner-approved board decision. Thank you.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Ah, I missed Tim's reply. I honestly would not hold a special meeting of the members and the time & trouble it takes to pull that together for these two owners who don't seem to know what they're talking about.

Look, we've had 4 attorneys on our Board and none understood our docs very well at all and certainly not the Open Meeting Act, etc. (I'm still giving the 4th a little more time as she's pretty new) The 3rd ends his 2 years of "service" in a few weeks and was worthless in every way.

They can try to call for such a meeting and must do every step exactly right. Gettin petition signatures probably is easy, but not the rest. Even then, as I recall--haven't looked at this materials for a long time--it takes many days, even weeks to actually hold the meeting.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Ah, I missed Tim's reply. I honestly would not hold a special meeting of the members and the time & trouble it takes to pull that together for these two owners, who don't seem to know what they're talking about.

Look, we've had 4 attorneys on our Board and none understood our docs very well at all and certainly not the Open Meeting Act, etc. (I'm still giving the 4th a little more time as she's pretty new) The 3rd ends his 2 years of "service" in a few weeks and was worthless in every way.

They can try to call for such a meeting and must do every step exactly right. Getting petition signatures probably is easy, but not the rest. Even then, as I recall--haven't looked at this materials for a long time--it takes many days, even weeks to actually hold the meeting. I wouldn't encourage it as I think your Board and HOA members are happy with you attempts to control costs.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/12/2023 7:02 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM

Now the drama. Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

Are there only two lot owners asking (petitioning) the board or did they obtain the required number of homeowners to hold a special membership meeting?

If there is enough to hold a special meeting, or if the board is truly concerned about potential legal action, I would hold a special meeting but frame it in the form of assessment increase needed to heat all the pools year round. I expect you have historical data to allow you to figure out the expected cost to make this happen. Explain that some members have expressed a concern that the Association should have planned to heat all three pools and the Board has determined it would require a x% increase in assessments. Explain that the board believes that it can pay to heat one pool at the current level and recommends a vote against raising assessments for the purpose of heating all three pools. However, due to the threat of legal action, the board puts the assessment increase to a vote.

I would expect a large turnout and the measure to be voted down.

According to the Davis-Stirling Act only 5% of the members can call a special meeting, Recall. Etc. for our 40 Unit complex that’s two home owners.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM

We have three pools and three spas for 40 homes. Last year we heated two of the pools all year round and all three spas all year round. [snip] We elected to heat the pool nearest the middle of the complex being it's the most accessible for the majority of houses.

(Bolded emphasis added by me.) Oops; I missed that.

I am curious: Exactly how inconvenient is it to walk to the heated pool and spa (nearest the middle) vs. walking to one of the other two pools/spas?

I want to know whether these two owners are being total jerks, or whether they might have a point.

It's not right to sort of blame this on an owners' vote, either. Legally the board calls the shots.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/12/2023 5:42 PM
Dear sirs,

Thank you for sharing your position. For the following reasons, the board's position is unchanged. First, the board does not consider operating the pools at certain temperatures to be "maintenance." It's the difference between operating a motor vehicle and maintaining a motor vehicle. Setting a pool temperature is akin to setting the vehicle's cruise control. Second, the Board interprets "uniform plan" to mean inter alia that any maintenance done must ensure that each owner has available to him or her exactly what every other owner has available to him or her. This is the case with the pools: Each owner has available to him or her a choice to use any of the three pools.

Sincerely yours,

The Board of Directors

I REALLY like this.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM
Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

These two homeowners are lawyers so the legalese in their communications is a little confusing to us as laypersons.

What's even more confusing to me is how two attorneys could believe (incorrectly) that owners can vote by secret ballot to override the board's decision.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/12/2023 7:49 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM

We have three pools and three spas for 40 homes. Last year we heated two of the pools all year round and all three spas all year round. [snip] We elected to heat the pool nearest the middle of the complex being it's the most accessible for the majority of houses.

(Bolded emphasis added by me.) Oops; I missed that.

I am curious: Exactly how inconvenient is it to walk to the heated pool and spa (nearest the middle) vs. walking to one of the other two pools/spas?

I want to know whether these two owners are being total jerks, or whether they might have a point.

It's not right to sort of blame this on an owners' vote, either. Legally the board calls the shots.

Well, of course, the pool and spa right out back of your townhome is the most convenient for you. What we refer to as the ‘center’ pool is most convenient for the ten homes clustered around it but still is the most centrally located and as such the obvious choice. Also, it has easier access and parking for those who want to drive to the pool. Nobody lives farther from any pool than I do (because my house is on the very edge of the complex, which for me is a bonus). With only 40 duplex townhomes nobody is too long a walk away. Incidentally, these two homeowners have homes directly beside the pool they want heated.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Never ever be intimidated by a threat of a lawsuit even if it's from lawyers. They know they are playing the intimidation game. Stand by your decisions and respond with "will see you in court. Thank you". However, do NOT stand by this if your HOA is clearly wrong. Correct the wrong and bring proof it is corrected.

My advice is to announce the need for a special assessment or raise in dues in response to the need/desire of owners wanting to heat spas. Due to the budget and the cost increase this will cause the HOA to afford, a raise in dues will need to put into place to accommodate. This should get those lawyers off your back because your HOA is following the rules when it comes to incurring an increase in expense. Who doesn't need to raise dues when an expense goes up?

So what I would do is announce a need for a special assessment/raise in dues if the majority of owners vote to take on the extra expense. They work in tandem. You can't have one without the other. Following the procedures like this lets the air out of those lawyers tires. What can they now sue for? The HOA took a majority vote AND followed rules in increasing funds as it should. They have no case just wants...

Former HOA President

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 9:07 PM
You live there. You know the layout. I do not. It's California with spas so for all I know, the pools are quite far apart. From these two owners' homes, is it a quarter mile's walk to the center pool? Fifty yards? What?

I am curious about just how obtuse these two owners are being.

Even if it is a quarter mile's walk, I think I would still feel the board's decision-making is sound, excepting that the board must not 'blame the owners' vote' on its decision-making. Where the board has the exclusive power, per the covenants and state law, to do xyz, owners' votes are largely to help placate, and secondarily to help the board's deliberations.

Do not answer if you do not wish.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM
I'm sure our HOA s not alone in this delema regarding heating of pools and spas. Every year we have the same argument, which pools to heat? How long? How hot?

So here is the drama this year. We have three pools and three spas for 40 homes. Last year we heated two of the pools all year round and all three spas all year round. The cost was prohibitive so this year we sent out an informal survey to our homeowners and received 31 responses. Overwhelmingly they voted for heating only one pool and one spa during the winter months so that's what we (the Board of Directors) voted unanimously to heat only one pool and one spa from October to March with the option to heat it longer if necessary. We elected to heat the pool nearest the middle of the complex being it's the most accessible for the majority of houses.

Now the drama. Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

These two homeowners are lawyers so the legalese in their communications is a little confusing to us as laypersons. However, we feel we are on solid ground having made our decisions based on feedback from our homeowners but it's hard to find definitive information regarding where we stand. Our finances are very tight and I believe it is the intention of these two to compel us to give in to their demands in order to save our HOA huge legal expenses.

I feel like ignoring their demands and letting them take their best shot; however, I do not want to be part of the Board of Directors who drag our HOA into its first ever lawsuit.

Unless your Declaration requires the board to keep everything heated all year, it seems this decision would fall under the business judgment rule.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 6:16 AM

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 9:07 PM
You live there. You know the layout. I do not. It's California with spas so for all I know, the pools are quite far apart. From these two owners' homes, is it a quarter mile's walk to the center pool? Fifty yards? What?

I am curious about just how obtuse these two owners are being.

Even if it is a quarter mile's walk, I think I would still feel the board's decision-making is sound, excepting that the board must not 'blame the owners' vote' on its decision-making. Where the board has the exclusive power, per the covenants and state law, to do xyz, owners' votes are largely to help placate, and secondarily to help the board's deliberations.

Do not answer if you do not wish.

Two of the three pools are quite close to each other the other one is a little farther away but none is beyond easy walking distance. My house being the farthest away from the heated pool is less than a quarter mile so I would have the longest walk. From the two petitioners is perhaps three hundred yards at most.
.
Like most Associations in this snowbird community we face these arguments annually. Our dues are extremely high and utilities are one of our highest costs; therefore, reducing our electric , water and gas bill enables us to keep assessments acceptable. Three pools for 40 homes is a lot but our community was built in the seventies and demographics have changed dramatically over the years. We are over 50% full time residents. The pools are used by at most 15 of the 40 and then not regularly. Polling our homeowners a couple of months ago gave us the information we needed to determine what was considered important to the majority and it was overwhelmingly to save money by heating just one pool and spa during the winter. We used that feedback to make our decision.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 10/12/2023 5:53 PM
LmT,
I am still shocked by the 3 Pool and 3 Spas for 40 homes. We have 1 Large Pool for over 1450 SFHs. I am not sure how 40 homes couldn't share 1 Pool during the slowest seasons. They are being unreasonable and should be ignored. If you have to address the issue, I like ElleN letter, but I might add the funds needed to operate each Pool during the Winter months when the weather is working Hard against you.

Thank you. Three pools is an awful lot for just forty homes. There are no families in our community and most people are retired.

Many are over the swimming pool stage of their lives but we have a few snowbirds who consider having a pool available important. I get that. However, many of our homeowners are on fixed incomes as retirees and with monthly dues almost $700 and likely to rise well over $100 at our next budget you can imagine how hard that will hit some folks. Of course, there are others who would consider that acceptable to have the maximum amenities available to them. Especially if the cost of that heated pool is spread over 40 homes.

Budget time is coming up and the high (and rising) cost of utilities will be a major factor.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

LmT,
It seems like such easy math to me. You have the Electric bills from prior years and should be able to project the savings easily to this community. I personally would ignore the minority voices and focus on the facts. This is a cost savings measure and also a practical one. Less usage during the winter requires less Pool/Spas available.

I guess I am getting old, but I watch people making decisions these days based on what a very small percentage of the population wants. Remember you will never make them happy anyway. Why keep trying?

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/12/2023 7:02 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM

Now the drama. Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

Are there only two lot owners asking (petitioning) the board or did they obtain the required number of homeowners to hold a special membership meeting?

If there is enough to hold a special meeting, or if the board is truly concerned about potential legal action, I would hold a special meeting but frame it in the form of assessment increase needed to heat all the pools year round. I expect you have historical data to allow you to figure out the expected cost to make this happen. Explain that some members have expressed a concern that the Association should have planned to heat all three pools and the Board has determined it would require a x% increase in assessments. Explain that the board believes that it can pay to heat one pool at the current level and recommends a vote against raising assessments for the purpose of heating all three pools. However, due to the threat of legal action, the board puts the assessment increase to a vote.

I would expect a large turnout and the measure to be voted down.

Yes, only two but I believe there may be another two or three supporters in the wings.

Your suggestion to call a special meeting is a good one and we may well have to do that. And yes, we have plenty of data on which to base future increases in assessments.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 7:42 AM
My house being the farthest away from the heated pool is less than a quarter mile so I would have the longest walk. From the two petitioners is perhaps three hundred yards at most.

Okay. I would say the two owners are not so obtuse. But with this distance, I admit I am re-thinking my position. Certainly IMO the longer the distance, the firmer the ground on which these two owners stand is. There is a not unreasonable argument that the board has to raise the assessment, period.

Sorry for the flip-flop. Let's see if this distance changes others' thinking. I will step out for now, since this is a kind of shameless flip-flop.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/12/2023 7:16 PM
Kudos to you & your Board. A return of your survey of 31 out of a population of 40 is amazing!! There were no dual responses from any home, right?

If you bother responding to them (maybe not "sirs?"), and I appreciate your concerns, I'd remind them of the survey results. I'd also (nicely) require them to exactly cite the sections of your CC&Rs that show every recreational feature in your HOA must be accessible for residents's use 24/7/365. They must show you your CC&R's definition of "maintenance" or if not obvious a dictionary definition of maintenance.

I don't know about SFHs, but our multistory condo has a Maintenance Manual. Maybe all developers must provide one at turnover to the Owners in CA. They're needed, in part, to craft a reserve study. But also, of course, they're needed so that the HOA's employees or vendors know how "maintain" the sprinkling system, the lighting system, the pool's mechanical equipment & pumps, etc.

Our HOA Board sets the hours of the gym, of our (lone) pool & spa, of our 2 Party Rooms, of our Conference Room. It decides the temperature of the gym, spa, pool and common area lobbies and residential corridors. In some areas, exterior lighting is on timers and the Board decides what times they should be on/off. Decision s about the USE of the commons era always is the Board's unless those two can show you otherwise.

Boards have every right to set the hours of usage of any common area. Maybe play around with the below.

Dear xx & xx,

We appreciate your interest in our community. As you learned from our recent survey of Owners, a whopping xx% of the xx respondents were in favor of xx xx. It's good to know that so many of our fellow owners share your Board's interest in trying to reduce our expenses!

It's your belief, however, that the Board is not upholding its obligation to have a plan to maintain our common areas. Please cite for us the sections of our declaration that equate setting reasonable hours for the use of our common area amenities with our documents' definition of "maintenance."

Our understanding of a "uniform maintenance plan" is the various schedules we have with our vendors to service the pools/spas and their equipment along with the mechanical and electrical components of our community. Our plan includes the schedule we have with our landscapers. This plan adheres to our community's Maintenance Manual, which you may review at any time. In it you shall see a preventive maintenance schedule for many component with which our vendors comply.

If you wish to proceed further with your concerns, please show us the sections in our declaration that you believe we will violate by our owner-approved board decision. Thank you.

Thank you, Kerry. We are very fortunate to have a very strong turnout for our association meetings and votes. Our last ballot had 38 responses. Being a community of only 40 homes we are very familiar with our neighbors- especially the full timers. I know almost everyone by name and consider most to be friends. Unfortunately, of these two people one is a long time snowbird and the other one is a newcomer snowbird. This type of behavior is very upsetting for our normally placid community.

His petition includes lots of references to parts of our CC&Rs dealing with the uniform maintenance of the common areas. He (as a lawyer) is interpreting those to his advantage, of course.

You may be able to steer me in the right direction here. I’m not sure this ballot vote he is calling for falls into the acceptable category of ‘lawful reasons’. Davis Stirling isn’t clear about it. Exactly what he wants to put on his ballot isn’t clear either. Can these two petitioners dictate what we place on this ballot? I haven’t been able to find definitive answers on the Davis Stirling website.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

May I suggest you investigate the costs and other factors you would face using a variation of the pool/spa heating process used by one of our clients.

First, the client's pool pump runs on the master controller schedule all year because the owners wish for the spa to be usable beginning about now through April/May and because the pool maintenance company recommends doing so. The pool is not heated during the off season as few people in this climate (north Texas) are interested in a pool in December.

The spa heater can be turned on using a timer which has a maximum run time of 3 hours. Turning on the spa opens the valves for the spa only and activates the heater, the pool itself is not heated. If someone wishes to use the spa, they turn the timer on, wait until the water is warm enough, and use the spa. If they forget to turn the timer off, it turns off automatically. The pool is securely gated, the timer is mounted in an easily accessible location.

The incremental expenses are for the natural gas used when the heater is activated, and a small additional amount of electricity.

The process works well. The owners who are interested can use the spa, no one has asked to have the pool heated.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/13/2023 5:11 AM
Never ever be intimidated by a threat of a lawsuit even if it's from lawyers. They know they are playing the intimidation game. Stand by your decisions and respond with "will see you in court. Thank you". However, do NOT stand by this if your HOA is clearly wrong. Correct the wrong and bring proof it is corrected.

My advice is to announce the need for a special assessment or raise in dues in response to the need/desire of owners wanting to heat spas. Due to the budget and the cost increase this will cause the HOA to afford, a raise in dues will need to put into place to accommodate. This should get those lawyers off your back because your HOA is following the rules when it comes to incurring an increase in expense. Who doesn't need to raise dues when an expense goes up?

So what I would do is announce a need for a special assessment/raise in dues if the majority of owners vote to take on the extra expense. They work in tandem. You can't have one without the other. Following the procedures like this lets the air out of those lawyers tires. What can they now sue for? The HOA took a majority vote AND followed rules in increasing funds as it should. They have no case just wants...

Thank you for your reply. In all the time I have lived in this community we have not been faced with a threat of legal action so it’s no surprise that we all feel intimidated by these two very aggressive individuals.

Based on some of the information I have gathered here I am going to suggest we figure out (wouldn’t take much doing) how much we would need to assess every homeowner to meet the extra cost of heating all three pools and whether we should put that to a formal vote either of the board or by ballot.

I know we should not have to do that. It astonishes me how little homeowners know about their governing documents and that includes members of the board. We publish our financial reports monthly and I don’t believe any one reads them and that includes board packets.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:14 AM
I’m not sure this ballot vote he is calling for falls into the acceptable category of ‘lawful reasons’. Davis Stirling isn’t clear about it. Exactly what he wants to put on his ballot isn’t clear either. Can these two petitioners dictate what we place on this ballot?

Let's flesh this out a bit. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Special-Membership-Meetings. The latter says the meeting has to have a lawful purpose. (Following the links on "lawful purpose" sends one into a black hole.)

Owners have only those powers reserved to them in the governing documents. I have never seen owners have the power to override a board decision that is otherwise in the board's power to make.

If the board agrees to hold such an owners' vote, it is violating the covenants and statutes pertaining to the owners' power.

As usual, instead the correct approach of these owners is to seek replacement of the board.

Hard "no" to the owners' request for a special meeting. If the two owners do not like it, they can try an end run via Corps Code 7511(c), requiring them to go to court.

Hopefully this thread will help your board prepare for a meeting with the HOA's attorney.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 8:34 AM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:14 AM
I’m not sure this ballot vote he is calling for falls into the acceptable category of ‘lawful reasons’. Davis Stirling isn’t clear about it. Exactly what he wants to put on his ballot isn’t clear either. Can these two petitioners dictate what we place on this ballot?

Let's flesh this out a bit. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Special-Membership-Meetings. The latter says the meeting has to have a lawful purpose. (Following the links on "lawful purpose" sends one into a black hole.)

Owners have only those powers reserved to them in the governing documents. I have never seen owners have the power to override a board decision that is otherwise in the board's power to make.

If the board agrees to hold such an owners' vote, it is violating the covenants and statutes pertaining to the owners' power.

As usual, instead the correct approach of these owners is to seek replacement of the board.

Hard "no" to the owners' request for a special meeting. If the two owners do not like it, they can try an end run via Corps Code 7511(c), requiring them to go to court.

Hopefully this thread will help your board prepare for a meeting with the HOA's attorney.

Thanks Elle. While I was responding to posts here his proposed ballot came across my email. It is this.

In order to better shield the xxx HOA from the potential financial fallout of breaching the Covenants, should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants on file with the State of California, which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or no

I would have thought a non-preferential plan would be to rotate all three. By the way, the rotation suggestion is a new one. From what I’ve seen he wants them rotated monthly.

I am shaking my head.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

No, members can't dictate what goes on a ballot.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 8:34 AM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:14 AM
I’m not sure this ballot vote he is calling for falls into the acceptable category of ‘lawful reasons’. Davis Stirling isn’t clear about it. Exactly what he wants to put on his ballot isn’t clear either. Can these two petitioners dictate what we place on this ballot?

Let's flesh this out a bit. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Special-Membership-Meetings. The latter says the meeting has to have a lawful purpose. (Following the links on "lawful purpose" sends one into a black hole.)

Owners have only those powers reserved to them in the governing documents. I have never seen owners have the power to override a board decision that is otherwise in the board's power to make.

If the board agrees to hold such an owners' vote, it is violating the covenants and statutes pertaining to the owners' power.

As usual, instead the correct approach of these owners is to seek replacement of the board.

Hard "no" to the owners' request for a special meeting. If the two owners do not like it, they can try an end run via Corps Code 7511(c), requiring them to go to court.

Hopefully this thread will help your board prepare for a meeting with the HOA's attorney.

Thanks Elle. While I was responding to posts here his proposed ballot came across my email. It is this.

In order to better shield the xxx HOA from the potential financial fallout of breaching the Covenants, should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants on file with the State of California, which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or no

I would have thought a non-preferential plan would be to rotate all three. By the way, the rotation suggestion is a new one. From what I’ve seen he wants them rotated monthly.

I am shaking my head.

First sentence is unnecessary because the board is already required to adhere to the CC&Rs which are recorded in the County not in a state office. And the last sentence is probably redundant because the Declaration already gives board power to maintain the common areas and it's up to individual boards as to how that maintenance is carried out. Research business judgment rule. I would say these people don't know what they're talking about.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Don't let them intimidate you!

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
While I was responding to posts here his proposed ballot came across my email. It is this.

In order to better shield the xxx HOA from the potential financial fallout of breaching the Covenants, should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants on file with the State of California, which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or no

Interesting. It appears the two owners are seeking an "advisory vote" of the members. Said "advisory vote" is not legally binding on the board. I think a meeting that has such an "owners' advisory vote" is lawful. But let's make sure the two owners understand this. I suggest the board respond with something like the following:

Dear [Two Owners],

The Board will agree to arrange a Special Meeting on this topic as long as the wording on this non-legally binding, "owners' advisory ballot" is the following:

As an owner at the ___ HOA, do you request that the board adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or No

If you agree to this wording, then the board will arrange for this special meeting. At the meeting the President will explain that the vote is not legally binding on the board; however, the board will certainly consider the results of the owners' "advisory vote."

Thank you,

Board of Directors

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
I would have thought a non-preferential plan would be to rotate all three. By the way, the rotation suggestion is a new one. From what I’ve seen he wants them rotated monthly.

Maybe this is reasonable. I am not there, with full grasp of the physical situation, to say. I know I like my hot tub soaks and I would not be wild about walking a few hundred yards to one pool when in past years, a pool that is much closer would be heated.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 9:12 AM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
While I was responding to posts here his proposed ballot came across my email. It is this.

In order to better shield the xxx HOA from the potential financial fallout of breaching the Covenants, should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants on file with the State of California, which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or no

Interesting. It appears the two owners are seeking an "advisory vote" of the members. Said "advisory vote" is not legally binding on the board. I think a meeting that has such an "owners' advisory vote" is lawful. But let's make sure the two owners understand this. I suggest the board respond with something like the following:

Dear [Two Owners],

The Board will agree to arrange a Special Meeting on this topic as long as the wording on this non-legally binding, "owners' advisory ballot" is the following:

As an owner at the ___ HOA, do you request that the board adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or No

If you agree to this wording, then the board will arrange for this special meeting. At the meeting the President will explain that the vote is not legally binding on the board; however, the board will certainly consider the results of the owners' "advisory vote."

Thank you,

Board of Directors

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
I would have thought a non-preferential plan would be to rotate all three. By the way, the rotation suggestion is a new one. From what I’ve seen he wants them rotated monthly.

Maybe this is reasonable. I am not there, with full grasp of the physical situation, to say. I know I like my hot tub soaks and I would not be wild about walking a few hundred yards to one pool when in past years, a pool that is much closer would be heated.

No...ask your attorney how to respond.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

If 5% of the membership asks for a meeting for any lawful purpose, the board has to hold one.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 10/13/2023 9:16 AM

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 9:12 AM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
While I was responding to posts here his proposed ballot came across my email. It is this.

In order to better shield the xxx HOA from the potential financial fallout of breaching the Covenants, should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants on file with the State of California, which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or no

Interesting. It appears the two owners are seeking an "advisory vote" of the members. Said "advisory vote" is not legally binding on the board. I think a meeting that has such an "owners' advisory vote" is lawful. But let's make sure the two owners understand this. I suggest the board respond with something like the following:

Dear [Two Owners],

The Board will agree to arrange a Special Meeting on this topic as long as the wording on this non-legally binding, "owners' advisory ballot" is the following:

As an owner at the ___ HOA, do you request that the board adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?

Yes or No

If you agree to this wording, then the board will arrange for this special meeting. At the meeting the President will explain that the vote is not legally binding on the board; however, the board will certainly consider the results of the owners' "advisory vote."

Thank you,

Board of Directors

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 8:44 AM
I would have thought a non-preferential plan would be to rotate all three. By the way, the rotation suggestion is a new one. From what I’ve seen he wants them rotated monthly.

Maybe this is reasonable. I am not there, with full grasp of the physical situation, to say. I know I like my hot tub soaks and I would not be wild about walking a few hundred yards to one pool when in past years, a pool that is much closer would be heated.

I'm sure we will be making an appointment with our attorney immediately.

No...ask your attorney how to respond.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Clarifying the "maintenance plan" issue, which is not the issue at all, makes a big difference. Please cite the exact wording of the covenants about the "rotation" of the pools. I only see a partial quote below. Does it really discuss only 2 pools and not three?

,"...should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants ...which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?"

If they (all?) must be rotated, I'm guessing you'll have very skimpy utility savings as each pool must be brought up to temperature every month, which is way more expensive than consistent heating and puts extra wear & tear on the mechanicals.

With Terri: see you HOA attorney to learn their interpretation of that covenant.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/13/2023 10:03 AM
If they (all?) must be rotated, I'm guessing you'll have very skimpy utility savings as each pool must be brought up to temperature every month, which is way more expensive than consistent heating and puts extra wear & tear on the mechanicals.

Maybe. But I am not yet convinced.

Fairness may call for rotation as the two owners are now requesting. Rotation might indeed still result in cost savings vis-a-vis heating all three pools/spas, just not as much as if only one pool and spa were heated.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/13/2023 10:03 AM
Clarifying the "maintenance plan" issue, which is not the issue at all, makes a big difference. Please cite the exact wording of the covenants about the "rotation" of the pools. I only see a partial quote below. Does it really discuss only 2 pools and not three?

,"...should the Board be instructed to explicitly adhere to the xxx HOA Covenants ...which they are required to enforce. Specifically, the Board must adopt a consistent, non-preferential “uniform plan” of rotation for operating, heating and maintaining a West pool/spa and an East pool/spa?"

If they (all?) must be rotated, I'm guessing you'll have very skimpy utility savings as each pool must be brought up to temperature every month, which is way more expensive than consistent heating and puts extra wear & tear on the mechanicals.

With Terri: see you HOA attorney to learn their interpretation of that covenant.

There is no wording our CC&Rs regarding the rotation of pools or even the number of pools. This is what they say and what he is basing his statement upon:

4.Interpretation.
The provisions of this Declaration shall be liberally construed to effectuate its
purpose of creating a uniform plan for the development of a residential community and for the maintenance of the Common Area, Common Facilities and those portions of the Lots and/or Residences for which the Association has maintenance responsibilities. The article and section headings have been inserted for convenience only, and shall not be considered or referred to in resolving questions of interpretation o r construction. Unless the context requires a contrary construction, thesingularshall includethe plural and the plural the singular; andthe masculine, feminine and neuter gender shall each include the masculine, feminine and neuter gender.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 10/13/2023 7:58 AM
LmT,
It seems like such easy math to me. You have the Electric bills from prior years and should be able to project the savings easily to this community. I personally would ignore the minority voices and focus on the facts. This is a cost savings measure and also a practical one. Less usage during the winter requires less Pool/Spas available.

I guess I am getting old, but I watch people making decisions these days based on what a very small percentage of the population wants. Remember you will never make them happy anyway. Why keep trying?

One of my colleagues made the same observation regarding the smaller more vocal population driving decisions in most aspects of our lives these days. Yes, I am also getting old. Here in our corner of California the cost of living, particularly gas and electric, has risen astronomically. We will be forced to increase our monthly assessment quite a bit WITHOUT the additional costs associated with heating all of the pools and spas but some people want that and they either don't care or don't understand the astronomical cost. It's left to us as a board of directors to create an acceptable/appropriate/workable budget.

To some folks cost saving measures are practical and to others they are just restrictive. Sigh!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

OHHHHH! HAHA. Rotating the two pools is NOT in your covenants (or perhaps elsewhere?). Instead, they've cherry-picked a declaration article that is probably in every CC&R. It's in our original & new set each of which were written by attorneys who've written hundreds of them.

Don't know the law well, but this clause, I believe, is called the "liberal construction clause" or "liberal Interpretation clause." I cannot see anything in it that shows an owner can make NEW policy about your recreational amenities, (or anything else).

And we're back to my original understanding -- sort of. Your CC&R: "The provisions of this Declaration shall be liberally construed to effectuate its
purpose of creating a uniform plan ...for the maintenance of the Common Area, Common Facilities... for which the Association has maintenance responsibilities."

I'd ask them which "provision," e.g. article or section in your CC&Rs they refer to and claim they are "liberally interpreting."

Then: The Board needs to make a "plan," i.e., policy, for the maintenance of the common areas. This plan your Board has with the vendors I noted above, and with help from your Maintenance Manual. The main job of any HOA is to protect, maintain & enhance the common areas. That's probably stated elsewhere in your declaration (near the front?) and man even in your Articles of Incorporation.

There's nothing in this article about schedules (a plan) of operation, usage or access.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

If there is a maintenance manual, isn’t there a plan already?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 11:16 AM
One of my colleagues made the same observation regarding the smaller more vocal population driving decisions in most aspects of our lives these days.

Pretend I am TerriS6 but five years older (meaning for five years she's been reading and processing HOATalk posts, the D-S site, and other HOA sites). Terri might quote Justice Sandra Day O'Connor as follows:

(W)e do not count heads before enforcing the First Amendment.

Likewise for HOAs and covenants: It does not matter if only one person is complaining. Boards are supposed to comply with the covenants. Amenities must be offered fairly to all. Whether the board's solution here is fair is not 100% clear to me.

I agree.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Regrettably, I have been immersed in this stuff for exactly 5 years.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/13/2023 12:23 PM
OHHHHH! HAHA. Rotating the two pools is NOT in your covenants (or perhaps elsewhere?). Instead, they've cherry-picked a declaration article that is probably in every CC&R. It's in our original & new set each of which were written by attorneys who've written hundreds of them.

Don't know the law well, but this clause, I believe, is called the "liberal construction clause" or "liberal Interpretation clause." I cannot see anything in it that shows an owner can make NEW policy about your recreational amenities, (or anything else).

And we're back to my original understanding -- sort of. Your CC&R: "The provisions of this Declaration shall be liberally construed to effectuate its
purpose of creating a uniform plan ...for the maintenance of the Common Area, Common Facilities... for which the Association has maintenance responsibilities."

I'd ask them which "provision," e.g. article or section in your CC&Rs they refer to and claim they are "liberally interpreting."

Then: The Board needs to make a "plan," i.e., policy, for the maintenance of the common areas. This plan your Board has with the vendors I noted above, and with help from your Maintenance Manual. The main job of any HOA is to protect, maintain & enhance the common areas. That's probably stated elsewhere in your declaration (near the front?) and man even in your Articles of Incorporation.

There's nothing in this article about schedules (a plan) of operation, usage or access.

Thank you for all of that good information. I had an email from our President and this was my message to him.

Quote: The board of directors is already required to follow the CC&Rs and if they think we haven’t done that then they can call for a vote to recall the board.

They are not at liberty to call for a vote to overturn a decision made by the board of directors in a properly noticed open meeting and if we allow it we might as well send every decision to a vote of the members.

If we allow this call for a vote to go through we might as well all resign. End Quote

Perhaps a little over reaction but I'm getting fed up with the whole thing.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 2:03 PM
I had an email from our President and this was my message to him.

Quote: The board of directors is already required to follow the CC&Rs and if they think we haven’t done that then they can call for a vote to recall the board.

They are not at liberty to call for a vote to overturn a decision made by the board of directors in a properly noticed open meeting and if we allow it we might as well send every decision to a vote of the members.

If we allow this call for a vote to go through we might as well all resign. End Quote

Perhaps a little over reaction but I'm getting fed up with the whole thing.

My take: This was no over reaction. Take a bow for what I think is a to-the-point (nailed everything; dang!), concise and well-written response.

My goodness but the writing around here is improving by leaps and bounds.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 1:34 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 11:16 AM
One of my colleagues made the same observation regarding the smaller more vocal population driving decisions in most aspects of our lives these days.

Pretend I am TerriS6 but five years older (meaning for five years she's been reading and processing HOATalk posts, the D-S site, and other HOA sites). Terri might quote Justice Sandra Day O'Connor as follows:

(W)e do not count heads before enforcing the First Amendment.

Likewise for HOAs and covenants: It does not matter if only one person is complaining. Boards are supposed to comply with the covenants. Amenities must be offered fairly to all. Whether the board's solution here is fair is not 100% clear to me.

I agree.

I see your point.

If we are to offer amenities fairly to all then we would heat and three pools so, theoretically, there would be no complaints. That is until we had to increase dues by an enormous amount (and that is not an exageration).

I agree the fair way would be to rotate the amenities on a regulation basis - weekly, monthly or annually! However, I'm not sure that would be acceptable to all either.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 2:10 PM

If we are to offer amenities fairly to all then we would heat and three pools so, theoretically, there would be no complaints. That is until we had to increase dues by an enormous amount (and that is not an exageration).

Believe me: I believe you.

Hopefully more discussion will occur such that all owners have all the facts and sees all sides. I echo those above who say present the amount the assessment would have to go up to heat all three pools. Present whether rotating every month is feasible.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/13/2023 2:15 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/13/2023 2:10 PM

If we are to offer amenities fairly to all then we would heat and three pools so, theoretically, there would be no complaints. That is until we had to increase dues by an enormous amount (and that is not an exageration).

Believe me: I believe you.

Hopefully more discussion will occur such that all owners have all the facts and sees all sides. I echo those above who say present the amount the assessment would have to go up to heat all three pools. Present whether rotating every month is feasible.

Thanks,

I feel another community email blast coming on! 🤣

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 10/12/2023 7:54 PM

Posted By LmT on 10/12/2023 5:13 PM
Two homeowners have come together to petition the HOA to hold a secret ballot and to threaten legal action against the HOA citing a breach of the covenants for failing to provide "a uniform plan for... the maintenance of the Common Area and Common Facilities..." which they claim includes the heating of pools.

These two homeowners are lawyers so the legalese in their communications is a little confusing to us as laypersons.

What's even more confusing to me is how two attorneys could believe (incorrectly) that owners can vote by secret ballot to override the board's decision.

This entire situation blows my mind and I don’t have any advice for you but I’m minded to ask: just what kind of attorneys are these people? Entertainment lawyers? Administrative lawyers? PI attorneys? Labor and employment? Etc. There are many specialized areas of the law, and it sounds like these two are going DIY on this - just me but I’d want to get some idea of how closely their professional abilities align to the actual law that is being debated.

I wish you the best with this. Dealing with irate homeowners over swimming pool issues … it must be *awful*!

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I like this, LmT. The attorneys' demand for uniform scheduling is not supported by your CC&Rs, which requires a "plan of maintenance." There is no requirement for "fairness," or equal distance of access. So they have nothing.

Let them try a Board recall.

LmT note to the president: "The board of directors is already required to follow the CC&Rs and if they think we haven’t done that then they can call for a vote to recall the board.

They are not at liberty to call for a vote to overturn a decision made by the board of directors in a properly noticed open meeting and if we allow it we might as well send every decision to a vote of the members.

If we allow this call for a vote to go through we might as well all resign."

So....what will you say, if anything to the two?

This wannabe tyranny of a minority is such a shame, LmT, given your community's cohesiveness.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Regarding "rotation":

The engineer part of me compels me to ask: what is involved in rotating the pools and spas? How much cost and hassle?

(When I was a kid, the decision about when to turn on / turn off the heating system at the school was a Big Deal, and when the heat was on it was ON, regardless of how much everyone sweated).

Realizing that the topic has been beaten to death, I'll go on: has anyone broken down the heating costs to $ per day per each individual pool or spa? Could you heat three spas for the cost of one pool (for instance)?

I'm not really looking for an answer - it's just that I haven't seen anyone mention this.

I doubt anyone wants to go to the effort, but also: this could be broken down into a linear programming problem, taking the distance between each (pool or spa) and each resident, and the cost of keeping them heated, and then solving for minimum cost. It would make an interesting counter-argument to anyone who complains that the Board hasn't been doing due diligence in keeping costs down, that's for sure.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/13/2023 5:27 PM
There is no requirement for "fairness," or equal distance of access.

This is debatable. These two owners pay the assessment just like everyone else. They bought their townhomes on the assumption that they would have the same privileges as everyone else relative to their townhomes' location.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 10/13/2023 6:31 PM
I doubt anyone wants to go to the effort, but also: this could be broken down into a linear programming problem, taking the distance between each (pool or spa) and each resident, and the cost of keeping them heated, and then solving for minimum cost. It would make an interesting counter-argument to anyone who complains that the Board hasn't been doing due diligence in keeping costs down, that's for sure.

I do not see how distance from the pool (x?) has any relation to the cost (y?) to heat the pool.