💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

HeidiL1 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I'm new to this forum. Thank you for your feedback!

I'm working for a property mgt company that does not obtain authorization from a board member prior to writing or transferring money from the Reserve account. We have a form on file that the President of the HOA signed which allows PM to transfer money at anytime between operating and reserve. When a reserve invoice comes in, the PM pays the invoice from the applicable account (that is, no further approvals). The PM states they received approval when the bid was approved at the Board meeting and that's good enough. I'm having a really hard time with this. The head of the PM told me everyone does this and no one gets a board members further authorization if the bid had been originally approved during the board meeting.

I'm really not comfortable with the liability around this and the CC&Rs are follow the Davis Sterling Act, with the exception of this form authorization I note above. Thank you for any insight!!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Not sure what your position is within the company.

If your a PM, regardless of what others say, if you want some more protection - add the paper to your accounts.
If your simply paying the bills, ask a CPA what they would require for the audit.

Personally, since you have authority to transfer funds as needed and a reserve invoice shouldn't come in without board approval, I agree that no further requirement is needed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HeidiL1 on 10/09/2023 12:52 PM
I'm new to this forum. Thank you for your feedback!

I'm working for a property mgt company that does not obtain authorization from a board member prior to writing or transferring money from the Reserve account. We have a form on file that the President of the HOA signed which allows PM to transfer money at anytime between operating and reserve. When a reserve invoice comes in, the PM pays the invoice from the applicable account (that is, no further approvals). The PM states they received approval when the bid was approved at the Board meeting and that's good enough. I'm having a really hard time with this.
Why are you having a hard time wih this? The documentation of the action seems more than sufficient. The authority to pay from the reserve account seems to be there.
HeidiL1 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for the response. I suppose because the CC&Rs state two signatures for withdrawals from the reserve account. Also, we receive mortgage questionnaires that ask if 1)PM has access to transfer funds from the reserve account 2)Does the HO require 2 signatures on the checks.

Of which, the PM answers, NO to #1 and Yes to #2. Which is not true. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? Thanks for your help!
HeidiL1 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you!!
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HeidiL1 on 10/09/2023 1:34 PM
Thank you for the response. I suppose because the CC&Rs state two signatures for withdrawals from the reserve account.
Can you quote the wording verbatim from the covenant?

Quote:
Posted By HeidiL1 on 10/09/2023 1:34 PM
Also, we receive mortgage questionnaires that ask if 1)PM has access to transfer funds from the reserve account 2)Does the HO require 2 signatures on the checks.

Of which, the PM answers, NO to #1 and Yes to #2. Which is not true.
If I did not care about keeping my job, I would be asking the PM why he/she is responding "No" to (1). Regarding (2): Does the HOA's covenants, bylaws or rules require two signatures on checks? If so, then the PM answered honestly. (Just because two people are not actually signing does not mean the HOA does not require it.)

This forum sees a lot of shady managerial practices. It has a few members who have posted here for some years who seem, overall, like ethical people interested in making sure the law and covenants are followed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 10/09/2023 1:49 PM

This forum sees a lot of shady managerial practices. It has a few members who have posted here for some years who seem, overall, like ethical people interested in making sure the law and covenants are followed.
Post-o. I meant to say this forum has a few managers who have posted here for years et cetera.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Question:

Do you write a check on the reserve account or do you transfer reserve funds to the operating account and then write a check on the operating account?

If you are writing a check on the reserve account, then I would want the treasurers or Presidents signature along with mine.

If you are transferring funds and writing a check on the operational account, I wouldn't worry about it as the Board provided you with the authorization.

Why the PM doesn't answer the questions honestly I can't say.
There are jobs out there but the good ones tend to be harder to get.

If you are really concerned, start looking for a new job.
If you want to keep your current job, I'd be careful on how big of a fuss you make about it.

Again, if your the PM, simple get the additional signature and move on. It covers you and your boss.
If you are not the one signing the mortgage questionnaires, don't worry about that one.
HeidiL1 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
thanks for the feedback! I will say, with most of the associations, funds are transferred from Reserve to Operating then checks are written. However, there is not an approval to do so. It's more along the lines of, well, we don't have enough funds in the Operating so let's transfer $25k from reserve to operating without an approval. The approval I suppose is this blank form from the bank that the president signed stating PM has authority to transfer, write checks, etc.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HeidiL1 on 10/09/2023 2:24 PM

The approval I suppose is this blank form from the bank that the president signed stating PM has authority to transfer, write checks, etc.

I agree.

It would then be up to the board to provide proof to the auditor, via minutes, that the board voted to do this.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please do cite the requirement for two signatures, Heidi..

It's also true that in CA, reserves only may be used to pay for things listed in the reserve study. So to cover shortages in the Op. budget is not legal:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/R/Reserve-Expenditures#axzz1e4sYibvg"

"QUESTION: Does an expenditure from the reserve account require board approval? 

ANSWER: Yes. Reserve accounts are given significant protections by the Davis-Stirling Act. Associations must set up bank accounts that are separate and distinct from their managing agent's funds and separated into operating and reserve accounts.

Spending Restrictions.

Boards may not spend reserve funds for any purpose other than the repair, restoration, replacement, or maintenance of, or litigation involving the repair, restoration, replacement, or maintenance of, major components that the association is obligated to repair, restore, replace, or maintain. (Civ. Code § 5510(b).)

BUT, If the Board approved the expenditure-transferring funds form reserves to the op, budget to cover expenses, at an open meeting and this approval is recorded in the approved meeting minutes, then what? Wouldn't that be OK?

I have the feeling that the two-signature rule or statute is no longer required, but I can't confirm that.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173
Posted:
A management company can write a check from the reserve account, but under no circumstance can they sign the check.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I believe there is an accounting methodology where all funds are deposited to the Reserve fund and when needed to pay an invoice, money is transferred form Reserve to Operating and the invoice is paid. I actually think there is a name for this type accounting. I also believe it is done to keep the Reserves high when it is collecting interest.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here