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BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
So - as many of you know, I'm 'stepping away' from my swimming pool responsibilities.

But I'm not leaving the Board, and I'm still President.

The Board had to decide when to shut down the pool - this happens every year. We agreed on October 15{1}. I wrote a short letter as President, sent it out to the community. Some people were very unhappy with me.

I got a text message from a friend, she's been a Board member in the past, has been working as an arbitrator for many years. She wrote:

"But it seems you've unilaterally made a decision for almost 600 households ... unless you can present an honest method for conflict resolution with community input, you'll continue to take it personally when friends disagree with you{2}."

I confess that the letter I wrote was intentionally written such that I, El Presidente, was accepting responsibility for the Board's decision. I don't mean I was trying to grab credit; I wanted to not be 'transparent' - is that not a good thing to do?

But really: I'm curious about "present(ing) an honest method for conflict resolution with community input". I believe my HOA is "a non-profit corporation organized primarily to operate residential property", right?{3} Are there any standards or rules or outright laws about just how much resident input we should be seeking?

I'm not trying to use that as an excuse for running the neighborhood as a dictatorship - I can't find it but Cathy said something pithy not long ago about issues with residents who think the HOA is a big democracy where everyone gets to vote on everything - I think this is one of those occasions. I understand that there are times when a vote is needed (certain capital improvements, I think?) - but I'm inclined to think of this latest "resident unhappiness" as "Pool Rules pt 2"{4}. To put it another way: people seem unwilling to accept the Board's authority on pretty much anything and everything. And there's no shortage of people willing to step up and tell the Board exactly what they should do{5}.

So: "presenting an honest method for conflict resolution with community input" - does anyone do that when their Board makes an unpopular decision? I mentioned that my friend is a arbitrator, and this reminds me of that aphorism about "when your only tool is a hammer, all of your problems look like nails"? Her comments took me aback.

I'm just curious what y'all might have to say. I guess I'm wary that this kind of discussion implies that we're willing to compromise when, frankly, we're *not*.

Bill

{1} There are those who would argue that we should shut down the day after Labor Day, after the LGs leave. And/or that we should announce the shut down date much earlier. I won't argue strongly against either of those notions. There is "tradition" behind it.

{2} "We're still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase, sir" https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6ea679b6-1452-4f7f-a2c0-c8414a10cbf1

{3} The Texas Comptroller site says that "A qualifying homeowners association (HOA) must be a nonprofit corporation organized primarily to operate residential property. The individual owners must control at least 51 percent of the association's votes."

{4} In case you missed "Pool Rules pt 1 - The Entitlement": When the LGs arrived - first LGs in two years due to COVID - there were numerous complaints ala "Wah! The lifeguards said my pool toy is too big!" etc.

{5} I'm tired of people who have "ideas" but aren't willing to put any work into implementing them - most of them are well-meaning, but not all: there are people who will have "ideas" but really what they want is for the Board to do the stuff that they tell them to do, without putting in any effort or taking any responsibility.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 10/08/2023 4:48 AM

The Board had to decide when to shut down the pool - this happens every year. We agreed on October 15{1}. I wrote a short letter as President, sent it out to the community. Some people were very unhappy with me.

I got a text message from a friend, she's been a Board member in the past, has been working as an arbitrator for many years. She wrote:

"But it seems you've unilaterally made a decision for almost 600 households ... unless you can present an honest method for conflict resolution with community input, you'll continue to take it personally when friends disagree with you{2}."
What I wish you could say:

Dear Susan,

As an arbitrator I understand you must abide by certain rules and laws. You are not allowed to make up rules going against these rules and laws. You are paid for your labor.

Likewise Texas statutes, the covenants and bylaws require the all-volunteer board to abide by certain rules and laws. One of these rules and laws is that directors and the board act in the best interests of the association. On this issue (pool closing), the board has no obligation to seek input.

I hope you will run for the board again.

Sincerely,

______


It seems to me that transparency here calls for announcing that the board has decided to close the pool on October 15, largely due to finding that operating the pool safely without lifeguards has become too much.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
My first take on the past board member's comments was that closing the pool is a business decision, not "an honest disagreement among friends" or a decision where the community has veto power. Does she really believe that HOA should continue to pay for keeping the pool open just so that a few homeowners can swim laps every morning? That's not reasonable - and even in a democracy, the needs of the majority generally rule.

Also, remember that old saying: when you're an arbitrator, everything looks like an arbitration.

I suspect that her comment may have been aimed at something else, though, and this latest communication provided an avenue to get something off her chest. If you suspect there's something important going on, you may want to probe a bit. But otherwise I'd probably chalk it up to "attempted arbitration"...
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
If you do respond in writing, I suggest emphasizing that closing the pool is a business decision, that the cost to keep it open doesn't justify the limited benefit in cooler weather, and that keeping it open would eliminate other, higher priority spending. Talking money and increasing assessments usually gets people on board, and sticking to that doesn't antagonize people by pointing out that "business decision" = "the board calls the shots".

I always used to quote a story from one of our landscapers. There was a high-end condo community in my area that had a full time employee whose job it was to pick up fallen branches as soon as they'd fallen and to keep the grounds pristine. Their monthly assessments were in the thousands of dollars. Presumably the owners believed they were getting value for the money and the employee had a full time job, so everybody was happy. We can do something like this too, I'd tell complainers, if everybody's willing to pay for the services.

Of course, you guys have other reasons to step back and re-assess what's going on with your pool before next summer (trespassers, etc.) - but the money is the persuasive piece for most homeowners, so I'd stick with that until the board can come to grips with your other issues.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Your board colleagues were happy to step back and let you do the donkey work and risk insults and beatdowns because they're a bunch of...well you know. You're out there as president trying to do tbe best you can, because you are the tip of the spear, for better or worse. You'd think this former president would remember that.

Then again, she probably didn't have to deal with situations like this and today, everyone's meaner and done don't have the emotional maturity to address problems without cussing, name calling, fisticuffs, backhanded disks, and sadly, machine guns and revolvers.

Anyway, the board makes decisions on behalf of the community, so most of what she said is BS. If the pool rules were published at the start of the season, everyone was aware of what was expected, so why didn't everybody go ahead and comply? Everyone now knows what happened so now is a good time for then to come up with a better idea. Hopefully the board has already asked for them and that's the best you can do.

If people attend the meeting to complain, ask them pointblank if THEY'D be willing to come up with some approaches. That's the start of a special committee chartered by the board to make recommendations- let THEM poll the community and get the feedback. If no one volunteers, it's back to the board, which is charged with making the decisions anyway.

As for the broader question of getting community input on board decisions, it's not always required, but the board can and should encourage people to read board minutes, review income-expense reports, attemd meetings and LISTEN to the proceedings so they aren't blindsided. You can also have quarterly town halls where homeowners can sound off on various issues. It may not change the decision the board must make, but when you strive to be transparent and not run away from the tough decisions, most people will respect that.

PS - if this lady is an arbitrator, perhaps SHE could develop some sort if informal mediation program where homeowners could hammer out disputes with each other. This could cut down on the board being asked to step in on issues it doesn't have jurisdiction over. Or she can do a training for the board on de escalation techniques or refer you to someone who will.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 10/08/2023 7:15 AM
Or she can do a training for the board on de escalation techniques or refer you to someone who will.
I would never support an owner, who obviously does not understand the structure of HOAs, training the board in anything. The board should be training her, not the other way around.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Again, this isn't something that's got me tied up in knots - it was just, well, odd for her to weigh in with that stuff. There may indeed be some kind of underlying relationship issue that I should investigate. I mean, like, maybe she's PO'ed at me for something? I don't know what, but sometimes that kind of stuff happens.

People *do* seem more aggressive nowadays. And I (and the Board) *do* listen to people about neighborhood concerns. But there is a tendency I have noticed this past year where it seems like when I "listen" to people, they take it as an opportunity to tell the Board what to do. I recently unsubscribed completely from our unofficial facebook group; someone would ask "how do I file an ACC request?" and I'd answer and then someone else would take that opportunity to carp all over me about something. I feel happier and lighter and I swear I've lost some weight as a result.

*fingers crossed* I think the pool stuff has blown over, in part because the weather has (at last!) cooled down appreciably, and any outrage about pool closure has just sorta melted away. I hope. I've noticed that a LOT of complaints seem to have a lifecycle that goes:

1. shock and outrage
2. make a complaint
3. someone acknowledges complaint
4. the entire matter is forgotten

Maybe it's not entirely forgotten, but the complaint seems to lose massive amounts of urgency and priority. I think that the delay between 2 and 3 makes a difference: a timely "Thank you for your concern" response seems to make a helpful difference.

I *do* have concerns about my Board being "too eager to please". It hasn't happened so far, but - it's not difficult to imagine that we get some number of complaint emails (so far we've had just one) and the Board thinks "we'd better reconsider our decision, we don't want to make people angry!" Which strikes me as a Very Very Bad Idea, especially for trivial stuff like pool closing dates. Sometime down the road there's a 100% chance we'll need to raise the dues, and people are going to be really unhappy about that. We're going to get complaints. And I don't think we should set any kind of precedent where the Board eagerly backs down and says "oops, sorry, please excuse!" whenever anyone complains{1}.

Thanks, y'all!

Bill

{1} I don't mean we should stupidly defend any egregiously boneheaded decisions we should happen to make. But we've so far managed to avoid the kind of unbelievably outrageous HOA blunders that make the national news. And it really hasn't been difficult. So far.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Sorry, one last thing:

ElleN wrote:
> I hope you will run for the board again.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

Bill


HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Bill,
I believe our HOA is just about 30 miles north of yours in Austin. We are closing our Pool on the same day. The only difference I see is the lack of notice. At our board meeting when we announced the opening day, we also selected our closing date. You mentioned the Cooler weather and that is just one on many reasons why it makes sense. You need to have them ready when anyone challenges you. The first ones that come to mind are below.

1) Money
2) Lack of Pool activity
3) Great place for homeless and vandals to congregate.
4) Added chemicals and servicing need for longer season.
5) Lots of people running around on Halloween is another reason not to leave a Pool open

Personally, I think you take this board stuff too personally. You mentioned that it was your decision to pick this closing date. It was really just your idea. The board made the decision and that should always be the case.

A saying I heard a long time ago was something like. If you don't have critic's, you are probably not very successful.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Mark wrote:

> Personally, I think you take this board stuff too personally. You mentioned that
> it was your decision to pick this closing date. It was really just your idea. The
> board made the decision and that should always be the case.

I won't argue about me taking it too personally

> A saying I heard a long time ago was something like. If you don't have critic's,
> you are probably not very successful.

I believe you've mentioned this before, and I want you to know: it's gotten me through a few tough moments. Thanks!

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 10/08/2023 4:48 AM

I confess that the letter I wrote was intentionally written such that I, El Presidente, was accepting responsibility for the Board's decision. I don't mean I was trying to grab credit; I wanted to not be 'transparent' - is that not a good thing to do?


The President is nothing more then the voice and the face of the board.
The President should report Board decisions and not indicate that they were for, against or the deciding vote.

Although it's a boards decision, I do think that soliciting input for some decisions isn't a bad idea.
I also believe that, when possible, reasons for decisions should be provided.

Such as: the board has decided to close the pool on mm/dd/yyyy. This decision is to allow the pool contractor to work us into the schedule to winterize the pool.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Letters of information to owners should come from the board of directors. In large HOAs, PM writes it on behalf of the Board of directors.

Presidents contribute items to our newsletter, and all of ours have every month. styles have varied a lot by each.

The main reason communications to owners come from the board is that that, unlike for-profit orgs, HOA are non-profits and are--in your Bylaws and in states' corporations codes -- governed by a board of directors. The Board, then, is the "decider.," unlike "W. There is no El Jefe. In this sense there is no "El Presidente," with the power & authority that title implies.

Sure, a list of officers' duties in your and many bylaws may say something like the prez does what most CEOs do, or some such. But, reading it, you'll very likely see something like "subject to the control of the Board" as in our Bylaws. The 2nd similar phrase in our Bylaws' description of the duties of the prez is: "The president shall, unless otherwise determined by the Board, have the general power and duties of management usually vested in the office of president of a corporation, together with such other powers and duties as may be prescribed by the Board or the Bylaws."

So note in three place the president is not all powerful and does NOT decide unless the board is willing for the prez to have that kind of power. This always is a mistake partly because the entire Board will be liable and held responsible if the president does something stupid or illegal. But we have seen many instances here of presidents wielding too much power and often it's because the rest of the directors are: lazy; ignorant (most common) or intimidated.

It'd be fabulous if you'd respond, BillD: How often does your Board have open board meetings?? You have an HOA of 600, so I assume you'd likely hold them monthly. Where do you hold them? I think you've written that your HOA has no clubhouse or meeting room (???)

I ask because-- I'm under the assumption that a great many discussions and even decisions among you directors take place online or otherwise outside of meetings. If this is so, other board members will soon, if not already, get very tired of these constant exchanges. Some may refuse to reply or "missed" that message, or "forgot." The very best way to go veneer is with actual meeting with agendas as required in your state.

I do understand how easy it is to focus on micro instances, like your above, but agreeing with Mark, try to operate and think at a more macro level of analysis. this can feel too "impersonal," but may be required a lot of the time while being a director.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bill Did the letter read "I have selected the pool closing date" or did it read "Your BOD has selected the pool closing date"?
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/10/2023 6:36 AM
Bill Did the letter read "I have selected the pool closing date" or did it read "Your BOD has selected the pool closing date"?

Errr ... yes.

It was a very short letter: "I’m writing to you today ... The final day will be ... The Board is concerned ... we're closing ... I regret ..." It was signed "Bill" (and in retrospect maybe I should have said "for the Board"?"

Writing this kind of letter is like walking a tightrope: I want to take the accountability, but I also don't want to make it sound like I did all of the work.

I'm willing to accept that I could have written a better letter.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

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