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DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
I have heard some HOAs mention that their Social Committee is independent of the HOA itself, and is provided no funding. They are, however, allowed to organize large events and reserve the clubhouse or other amenities for those events.

For those of you with that kind of arrangement, I would be interested to hear how it works. Particularly, I am interested in how you are able to allow an non-Association entity reserve your clubhouse. Do you basically take the approach of anybody who wants to preserve the clubhouse for a community event can do so?

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 09/27/2023 6:26 AM
I have heard some HOAs mention that their Social Committee is independent of the HOA itself, and is provided no funding. They are, however, allowed to organize large events and reserve the clubhouse or other amenities for those events.

For those of you with that kind of arrangement, I would be interested to hear how it works. Particularly, I am interested in how you are able to allow an non-Association entity reserve your clubhouse. Do you basically take the approach of anybody who wants to preserve the clubhouse for a community event can do so?


I have no direct experience, but do you allow members to reserve the clubhouse? If so then any member could do the reservation for the committee organized event.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/27/2023 6:53 AM
Posted By DavidG45 on 09/27/2023 6:26 AM
I have heard some HOAs mention that their Social Committee is independent of the HOA itself, and is provided no funding. They are, however, allowed to organize large events and reserve the clubhouse or other amenities for those events.

For those of you with that kind of arrangement, I would be interested to hear how it works. Particularly, I am interested in how you are able to allow an non-Association entity reserve your clubhouse. Do you basically take the approach of anybody who wants to preserve the clubhouse for a community event can do so?



I have no direct experience, but do you allow members to reserve the clubhouse? If so then any member could do the reservation for the committee organized event.


We do not currently allow anyone to reserve the clubhouse. This is something I am curious about; perhaps we could allow any homeowner to reserve the clubhouse - they would simply have to present their proposed event to the Board, and the Board would approve or disapprove the event based on its merit. That homeowner would be responsible for cleanup, damages, etc. Homeowners could then organize a Social Committee amongst themselves, and the Social Committee would present their events to the Board just as any other homeowner would.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
ALL Owners' dues go the operating budget and into reserves for the daily maintenance of this recreational common area and into reserves to repair & replace roof, furniture, etc., etc. How does your Board justify denying any Owners the ability to reserve the space.

I have never heard of an HOA keeping Owners out of such common areas (except for disciplinary reasons). If any reader of this post lives in an HOA which keeps owners in good standing OUT of any recreational common areas, Please let us know.

And what the heck is this "merit' criterion ?????'
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/27/2023 11:55 AM
ALL Owners' dues go the operating budget and into reserves for the daily maintenance of this recreational common area and into reserves to repair & replace roof, furniture, etc., etc. How does your Board justify denying any Owners the ability to reserve the space.

I have never heard of an HOA keeping Owners out of such common areas (except for disciplinary reasons). If any reader of this post lives in an HOA which keeps owners in good standing OUT of any recreational common areas, Please let us know.

And what the heck is this "merit' criterion ?????'


We don't keep owners out of anything. By not allowing them to "reserve the clubhouse" I mean they are not allowed to ask for exclusive access of the clubhouse in such a way that others could not enjoy it. Anybody is free to use the clubhouse any time they want. Some HOAs allow people to rent the clubhouse, so they have exclusive access to it for an event. We don't allow that. However, if the Social Committee has a bingo night, the clubhouse will be filled-up and music will be playing so nobody else can truly come in and enjoy the clubhouse. We wouldn't let a group of residents just come in and take over the clubhouse like that.

Another example is once a week we have a Karate group. They move all of the furniture in the main room to a corner and take up the entire clubhouse for two hours. This is done with formal approval of the Board - we wouldn't typically allow people to come in, rearrange everything, and take over an amenity.

Perhaps this is unusual? Am I wrong in thinking that when people rent a clubhouse they have exclusive use of it during the rental period?

And by merit I mean it would be something open to the entire community, and doesn't violate any of our current use restrictions, discriminate in some way, pose health or safety issues, etc.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I should have phrased my question to you, David, & anyone else differently:

Does anyone reading this live in an HOA where only Board-approved groups may reserve your clubhouse or party room? To me, that bans qualified dues-paying Owners from the recreational common areas if a group of more than x(?) people. Or, well, unless they're the Karate Club. Please tell me, David, that KC member are not directors nor are related to directors.

We have basically two such rooms that any group of residents may reserve, pay a refundable deposit and a "rental fee" of an amount depending on the size of the party. They each hold about 50 people per the Fire Dept. occ. posting. They are open from 8am - 10pm 7 days a week. So long as there isn't a board meeting, training event for residents, e.g., a recent AED workshop, or Board-approved Social Committee event of the latter's choosing in the rooms, any other group of residents have exclusive use through a simple reservation system.

In 20 years we've never had a request to reserve the room once a week year 'round as with David's Karate Club. I do think our Board would want to discuss such a monopoly. Generally our rooms are reserved for wedding & baby showers, birthday & anniversary parties. I'd say they're maybe two of these a month, each for maybe 3 hours max. So... 6 hours out of 98/wk. We permit residents to invite non-residents to attend these parties. That leaves a great deal of time for residents to use the rooms. We have 200+ condo Units, so perhaps David's HOA is much larger and the room or clubhouse are few?

I think I recall David's HOA has some kind of CC&R about this topic?

The Social Committee has a couple of well-publicized events a year in the pool BBQ area, but there's still space for any other resident to use the pool/spa if they wish. They know well in advance there'll be a crowd. We do not permit reservations of these areas. Unlike the party rooms, they are in constant use by individual & small groups of residents.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/27/2023 2:09 PM
I should have phrased my question to you, David, & anyone else differently:

Does anyone reading this live in an HOA where only Board-approved groups may reserve your clubhouse or party room? To me, that bans qualified dues-paying Owners from the recreational common areas if a group of more than x(?) people. Or, well, unless they're the Karate Club. Please tell me, David, that KC member are not directors nor are related to directors.

We have basically two such rooms that any group of residents may reserve, pay a refundable deposit and a "rental fee" of an amount depending on the size of the party. They each hold about 50 people per the Fire Dept. occ. posting. They are open from 8am - 10pm 7 days a week. So long as there isn't a board meeting, training event for residents, e.g., a recent AED workshop, or Board-approved Social Committee event of the latter's choosing in the rooms, any other group of residents have exclusive use through a simple reservation system.

In 20 years we've never had a request to reserve the room once a week year 'round as with David's Karate Club. I do think our Board would want to discuss such a monopoly. Generally our rooms are reserved for wedding & baby showers, birthday & anniversary parties. I'd say they're maybe two of these a month, each for maybe 3 hours max. So... 6 hours out of 98/wk. We permit residents to invite non-residents to attend these parties. That leaves a great deal of time for residents to use the rooms. We have 200+ condo Units, so perhaps David's HOA is much larger and the room or clubhouse are few?

I think I recall David's HOA has some kind of CC&R about this topic?

The Social Committee has a couple of well-publicized events a year in the pool BBQ area, but there's still space for any other resident to use the pool/spa if they wish. They know well in advance there'll be a crowd. We do not permit reservations of these areas. Unlike the party rooms, they are in constant use by individual & small groups of residents.


I'm not sure why you're going off on different directions than my question. I am not happy about the Karate Club, but it was arranged when I was not on the board, the community seems to support it, and the rest of the board would never agree to changing it. I pick my battles, and there are a TON of them in these early days.

I'm not here defending how we use our clubhouse; because I do not know best practices or legal implications. Our governing documents are pretty silent on the matter other than to state the Board can establish rules for their use. I'm here specifically because I don't know how all of this is supposed to work, so I am hoping others can offer advice. Specifically with how does a Social Committee function when it is not an arm of the HOA?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, I'm not at all suggesting your do anything about the Karate Club.And I do support you. I should think that my recent reply about a violent neighbor shows some thought. But to my eye, the karate club sets a precedent whereby any interest group should have equal access to the common area that their dues help fund. Your board, of course a can make rules about hours, frequency, etc. Our Book Club and a game club each have our room reserved for a couple of hours once a month on a weekday.

Well, perhaps no HOA that'a represented here has a Soc. Comm. that is not board-approved. You wanted to know how/if they use the clubhouse. No reply. Maybe this time.

So, imo, they may reserve the clubhouse like any other group of residents should be allowed to reserve the clubhouse. Since the event would serve the community, your board may want to not charge them a rental fee or deposit as is otherwise very common in many HOAs for resident-organized events. But, you're right, I am troubled that your HOA keeps out some groups who want to assemble in the clubhouse and not others. I find this very unjust.

DE has a lot of HOA statutes that mirror CA's open meeting Act (OMA) You might check it to see if there's anything there that applies to residents' use of the common area recreational amenities.
As you can see below, this CA legislation is almost the opposite of your Board's approach to your clubhouse.

"Civil Code § 4515. Assembly for Political Purposes; Flyers, ...
(a) It is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that members and residents of common interest developments [HOAs] have the ability to exercise their rights under law to peacefully assemble and freely communicate with one another and with others with respect to common interest development living or for SOCIAL [my emph.], political, or educational purposes.
(b) The governing documents, including bylaws and operating rules, shall not prohibit a member or resident of a common interest development from doing any of the following:
(1) Peacefully assembling or meeting with members, residents, and their invitees or guests during reasonable hours and in a reasonable manner for purposes relating to common interest development living, association elections, legislation, election to public office, or the initiative, referendum, or recall processes.
(2) Inviting public officials, candidates for public office, or representatives of homeowner organizations to meet with members, residents, and their invitees or guests and speak on matters of public interest.
(3) Using the common area, including the community or recreation hall or clubhouse,...for an assembly or meeting described in paragraph (1) or (2) when that facility or separate interest is not otherwise in use."
The above is only a portion. For the entire statutes, see https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4515

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