tenant in my face while i'm trying to work - options?

Started by BillD16 • 81 replies • 995 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

It's been a busy week.

Last night we had a trespasser jump the fence at the pool at about 6pm (during operating hours; there were a couple of residents in the pool at the time). I saw him do it, immediately called 911 and reported the incident. The trespasser is a young black man who is a 'frequent visitor' and he's been arriving earlier and earlier. Current police policy is that the first time they respond to a trespasser, they issue a warning, and if the trespasser comes back in the next year, they are subject to arrest{1}{2}.

So I'm up at the pool while the police are "warning" this trespasser fellow; I'm standing off to the side. One of the residents who was up there swimming (who is a known 'vocational dissident'), sticks her head out of the gate, sees the police and a young black man, and makes a beeline for *me* and gets right in my face, screaming at me - I could feel the moisture of her breath on my face, and smell her breath - it was gross. I shouted "get away from me" and backed away from her. She followed and again gets in my face. By this time one of the cops has noticed this and 'escorts' the lady back to the pool area. I'm thoroughly embarrassed and kinda pissed off.

In short: is there anything I can do about this? I know, I'm looking at our governing docs but not really finding anything on-point. I've pondered filing assault charges, although in this town it's unlikely they'd be pursued{3}.

The resident in question is a tenant. I'd like to pull her pool access - this isn't the first time she's gotten aggressive with me up at the pool and I'm kinda sick of it. The rest of the Board seems generally receptive but "we should probably check with a lawyer first". TPC 209 has some stuff about holding a hearing, but the pool will be closed for the season by the time we jump through the hoops. Maybe I'm just SOL.

But the fact is that I was in the middle of working on something with the local police, in my capacity as President and defacto Pool Chair, and she jumped into it without provocation{4}.

Yeah, I've got the incident on video (and it supports what I've written above). There's no audio. She's already on FB spreading outrage. I don't remember exactly what was said, except that I know I said various stuff like "leave me alone!" and "get away from me!"{5} I didn't use any foul language. No, I haven't posted any video - not sure if that could somehow come back to bite me in the ass.

Thoughts?

Bill

{1} I don't think I've posted about it here, but I put a lot of time into setting all of this stuff up with the police, documenting things, distributing instructions on how to call 911 ("this is the address; this is the case # to mention...")

{2} The cops aren't particularly interested in arresting people over this stuff, and frankly neither am I. But the hope is that the threat of arrest will keep the trespassers away.

{3} Although if I end up catching COVID from this, I may indeed go for it.

{4} She's got some unusual views on race, and I think that seeing the police with this black trespasser fellow triggered her.

{5} Call me paranoid, but I keep a mental list of the handful of people I've known who were Trouble, and if I'm ever cornered by one of them, my strategy is to retreat as best I can while saying / shouting "get away from me!". This person has been on that list for several weeks.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Random thoughts:

* If this tenant - she is a tenant, right? - were harassing other residents, then I expect the board would have no problems with treating this as a violation of your CC&Rs and getting the landlord/owner involved. You're being a board member doesn't change this.

* Here is what our attorney said about similar issues:
Verbal Abuse of a Board Member Should Not be Tolerated

* One time I'd have let this go, although I would have walked away from the person and left her screaming. But since it's a pattern of behavior, I think you have to deal with it.

* Our local police say that once someone gets in your face (defined here as within ten feet of you), it fits the legal definition of harassment and justifies calling them. In this situation the police were already there but were otherwise occupied. Next time call the police and get a police report to file with the HOA's other records.

* You want a paper trail - I doubt that this person will suddenly see the error of her ways and develop more effective social skills.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The last pool community I lived in employed someone to basically act as a "bouncer" since that wasn't the lifeguards' job. This bouncer had the authority to boot someone from the pool area, and repeat offenses would result in a permanent ban. Ms. Foul Mouth would have been permanently "bounced" for behavior like this and could even have been evicted (this was an apartment community).

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Do you not wish to bring the rest of the board into this?

If I were on this board, I would motion to bring the HOA attorney into this, to write a proper cease and desist letter, for interfering with the operations of the corporation. Said letter will include a warning that if this conduct continues, the HOA will seek a restraining order.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

One other thing: You have posted that things are not so bad. But perhaps readers here have more objectivity. With all the trespassing, break-ins and the harassment of directors going on there, I think the time for getting tough is overdue.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

As most of us know, serving on the board makes you a target for anyone who disagrees with the way you handle things. This is more often, then not, directed at the individuals serving as President (as they are the face of the Board) and the Treasurer (as they are the one's writing late notices.

Often, the best thing to do is not comment back - as this often keeps the issue alive.

In your specific instance, you did the right thing and the police handled the individual who was in your face.

I once stood surrounded by residents that, from my perspective, wanted to lynch me.
As you are planning, I removed myself from the situation.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Thank you ElleN and Cathy.

ElleN wrote:
> Do you not wish to bring the rest of the board into this?
>
> If I were on this board, I would motion to bring the HOA attorney into this, to write a proper cease and
> desist letter, for interfering with the operations of the corporation. Said letter will include a warning
> that if this conduct continues, the HOA will seek a restraining order.

Yes. I've already advised the Board, provided them the video. Our PM said he'd send her a letter tomorrow and shut off her pool access ... I'm pondering whether or not that might be a mistake and yeah, something like a lawyer letter or restraining order would be better.

This woman and a couple of her friends have been libeling me all over the neighborhood FB page all day. I've been unresponsive. There's a part of me that reads what they write and wants to challenge it line-by-line - but that would go nowhere.

But it's just these same 3 women going on and on about what a bastard I am. Nobody else is jumping in (and I've advised a couple of people who offered to back me up to keep out of it, don't let the muck hit you). And I keep coming up with great one-liners (that I know I can't use). Like: "you three should all get in a big dogpile and have sex" which I admit is stolen from an old Joe Bob Briggs movie review but it's a great line.

What is interesting (and what keeps me going) is: when the rotten people hate me, but the good people like me - I feel pretty good about life.

> One other thing: You have posted that things are not so bad. But perhaps readers here have more objectivity.
> With all the trespassing, break-ins and the harassment of directors going on there, I think the time for
> getting tough is overdue.

You may well be right.

Again, I often ponder what y'all think of this stuff when I ask about it here. I swear to God I'm not making it up (although if I was a dirty lying liar, I guess that's what I'd say, too). I go back and forth between "I'm cursed" and "God is sending me challenges to toughen me up". Or - someone suggested that maybe I'm too active in all of this, and if I just let things slide and be more (pardon the expression) "normal" that I'd encounter a lot less carp.

I know ElleN has characterized it as Really Good Soap Opera. I'm cool with that, but - this can't be *everyone's* experience on an HOA. Not that I'm all super-tough, it's just that I don't think most people have the available retired-guy bandwidth to deal with all of this crap.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 09/24/2023 2:50 PM
I know ElleN has characterized it as Really Good Soap Opera.

I hope I did not characterize your particular travails as mere soap opera. I think much posted at hoatalk.com is soap opera. I think this is almost always due to (1) people wrongly thinking HOA land should operate as a democracy and (2) otherwise, not taking the trouble to learn about the legal structure of HOAs.

I agree with the many folks who feel a certain amount of name-calling and non-constructive criticism goes with the job (of being a director). But this woman repeatedly, literally getting in your face, during a pandemic perpetrated an assault. As for her possible desire to make your or others' actions about race, as a director, and for liability reasons, I feel the correct response is silence (assuming one feels certain that one's actions have nothing to do with race). If she thinks the board, a director or manager have violated Fair Housing law, then she needs to figure out what steps to take and knock off her harassment of others.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 09/24/2023 3:10 PM

Posted By BillD16 on 09/24/2023 2:50 PM
I know ElleN has characterized it as Really Good Soap Opera.

In other words, what you personally have described is not soap opera. I continue to be concerned it is a powder keg, with a much bigger incident possibly arising in the near future. The incidents to date are already quite serious.

The hot weather is behind so much (all) of this. It should not be taken lightly. Climate change or not, it's not going to get better.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/24/2023 1:02 PM
Random thoughts:

* If this tenant - she is a tenant, right? - were harassing other residents, then I expect the board would have no problems with treating this as a violation of your CC&Rs and getting the landlord/owner involved. You're being a board member doesn't change this.

* Here is what our attorney said about similar issues:
Verbal Abuse of a Board Member Should Not be Tolerated

* One time I'd have let this go, although I would have walked away from the person and left her screaming. But since it's a pattern of behavior, I think you have to deal with it.

* Our local police say that once someone gets in your face (defined here as within ten feet of you), it fits the legal definition of harassment and justifies calling them. In this situation the police were already there but were otherwise occupied. Next time call the police and get a police report to file with the HOA's other records.

* You want a paper trail - I doubt that this person will suddenly see the error of her ways and develop more effective social skills.

Also - Cathy, thank you for the advice and that link. The line about "No noxious or offensive activity shall be carried on in any part of the property, nor shall anything be done thereon which may be or become an annoyance or nuisance." is probably spot on.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 09/24/2023 2:50 PM

Yes. I've already advised the Board, provided them the video. Our PM said he'd send her a letter tomorrow and shut off her pool access ... I'm pondering whether or not that might be a mistake

I applaud
Let this woman ask for a hearing et cetera. She needs to know in no uncertain terms that getting in someone's face, especially here a director, and breathing on them will not be tolerated.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

I applaud this manager for recognizing a serious situation and taking action immediately. I presume the letter will explain why, per the covenants, her pool access has been suspended.

Let this woman ask for a hearing et cetera. She needs to know in no uncertain terms that getting in someone's face, especially here a director, and breathing on them will not be tolerated.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 09/24/2023 3:13 PM
Posted By ElleN on 09/24/2023 3:10 PM

Posted By BillD16 on 09/24/2023 2:50 PM
I know ElleN has characterized it as Really Good Soap Opera.
I hope I did not characterize your particular travails as mere soap opera. I think much posted at hoatalk.com is soap opera. I think this is almost always due to (1) people wrongly thinking HOA land should operate as a democracy and (2) otherwise, not taking the trouble to learn about the legal structure of HOAs.

I'm totally cool with the "soap opera" thing; you're weren't being at all dismissive. It *is* soap opera, though - people living together and getting along (and not getting along).

Your concern that it is a powder keg - I don't know. I will try to keep my eyes open for any kinds of patterns or progressions I see that might indicate that. I should probably start dressing better, just in case I show up on the national news. You'll hear "The President of an Austin HOA ..." and go OMG! I shouldn't joke. Actually, what I need to do is find a good picture of myself, because ... in short, I'd really like to hear Tim's story about almost being lynched!

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/24/2023 2:26 PM
As most of us know, serving on the board makes you a target for anyone who disagrees with the way you handle things. This is more often, then not, directed at the individuals serving as President (as they are the face of the Board) and the Treasurer (as they are the one's writing late notices.

Often, the best thing to do is not comment back - as this often keeps the issue alive.

In your specific instance, you did the right thing and the police handled the individual who was in your face.

I once stood surrounded by residents that, from my perspective, wanted to lynch me.
As you are planning, I removed myself from the situation.

Thanks. I truly appreciate the support.

And it makes sense; "President" is really not a super-privileged position. I believe that its two "superpowers" are Calling Meetings and Appointing Committee Members. But - at least in America - it also has interesting and powerful connotations in people's minds. "Have you run this past the President?" "What does the President think?" etc.

I don't wanna dredge up old painful memories, but: "I once stood surrounded by residents that, from my perspective, wanted to lynch me." There's gotta be a story there.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Bill, you said the 'vocal dissident' is a tenant, is that not correct?

I do not understand why you are having any conversations with the vocal dissident person at any time other than to observe social niceties or to respond to general, non-controversial questions--when will the pool close, etc.

I also do not understand why you are not coming down on the owner with a ton of bricks. Just for starters, vocal dissident or no, all, repeat all, her communications with you should be through the owner and not with you directly. The PM should inform the owner the pool pass for the tenant has been pulled, and why.

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

BillD16,

I have been following your posts about the issues you are having with your HOA swimming pool. I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

Does the renter/antagonizer know you are the HOA board president? If not, do you think it would make any difference if she is made aware of this. Not to throw your weight around about being president but it may give her a reason to pause. A renter may not know that your HOA has some authority to make and enforce rules. Was she defending the young black man? Could it be a perceived racial issue she was barking about? It shouldn't but unfortunately sometimes these things go that way.

No pool in my HOA which is fine with me. From the number of postings here about pools, they seem to be a welcome amenity but can also cause a number of problems... Bet you can't wait for the seasonal closure of the pool.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillH10 on 09/24/2023 3:41 PM
Bill, you said the 'vocal dissident' is a tenant, is that not correct?

I do not understand why you are having any conversations with the vocal dissident person at any time other than to observe social niceties or to respond to general, non-controversial questions--when will the pool close, etc.

I also do not understand why you are not coming down on the owner with a ton of bricks. Just for starters, vocal dissident or no, all, repeat all, her communications with you should be through the owner and not with you directly. The PM should inform the owner the pool pass for the tenant has been pulled, and why.

Hi Bill - for the record, really I've only had one 'conversation' with this person, it was a couple? of weeks ago; she was ordering our pool guy around and in short I told her not to do that. She got all huffy and stalked away. Yes, she is a tenant.

This latest 'conversation' wasn't initiated by me. I think she triggered on seeing the police rousting a trespasser from the pool and made a beeline for me to get in my face and yell at me.

This happened last night. I have not communicated with her since - although she's posted trash to FB and sent a complaint to the Board. The Board and our PM has seen the video. The PM has indeed said he'd pull her pool access and send a letter of some kind; I'm wondering if that's a good thing to do - my thinking has changed over the course of the day but right now I'm concerned that it could be a triggering kind of thing for her. Right now I'm inclined to go with what ElleN suggested: get with our lawyer and let her take it away - I don't know what she'll recommend, maybe a warning letter, maybe a restraining order - this is all brand new territory for me.

Regarding coming down on the owner: that might be the way to go with this. In my neighborhood owners with tenants are usually seen as being distant and hands-off with their tenants. This may or may not be true in this instance. I appreciate your input; I'll keep 'owner involvement' in mind. I'm supposed to meet with our PM tomorrow over an unrelated issue, but he and I will definitely be discussing this "tenant" thing.

Thanks.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LayaS on 09/24/2023 4:28 PM
BillD16,

I have been following your posts about the issues you are having with your HOA swimming pool. I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

Does the renter/antagonizer know you are the HOA board president? If not, do you think it would make any difference if she is made aware of this. Not to throw your weight around about being president but it may give her a reason to pause. A renter may not know that your HOA has some authority to make and enforce rules. Was she defending the young black man? Could it be a perceived racial issue she was barking about? It shouldn't but unfortunately sometimes these things go that way.

No pool in my HOA which is fine with me. From the number of postings here about pools, they seem to be a welcome amenity but can also cause a number of problems... Bet you can't wait for the seasonal closure of the pool.

Yes, she knows I'm President - if anything, it seems to make her *more* crazy.

Right now I'm shopping for some security cameras because my wife is spooked by this stuff. I feel very 'melodramatic' but as the day goes on it's becoming obvious that this isn't something I can just shrug off.

Thanks y'all!

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your reservations, BillD, about denying her access as to the pool are, I think, wise. Unless she. Has broken a specific rule that you HOA has published, I don’t see how it’s a good idea. As someone noted, IF she’s breaking rules you must deal with her .owner. Your docs, probably your CC%Rs and maybe your rules too, most likely state that owners are responsible for their tenants, guest. Etc, conduct, damage.

You may not call her to a hearng unless you docs say so re: tenants. You must call the owner to a hearing.

Since she isn’t the first resident to hArrass you, I think your Board, A SOON AS IS PRACTICAL, needs to make a rule simliar to the one Cathy noted. But, add staff and vendors.

We have this rule and have enforced it maybe 5 times over 6-7 years. Our fine was $100 and we’re raising it to #200. The rule also could include withholding of amenities also can occur.

Strange, I don’t see this post on my other screen/

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Restraining order right quick.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

"I'm totally cool with the "soap opera" thing; you're weren't being at all dismissive. It *is* soap opera, though - people living together and getting along (and not getting along).

Your concern that it is a powder keg - I don't know. I will try to keep my eyes open for any kinds of patterns or progressions I see that might indicate that. I should probably start dressing better, just in case I show up on the national news. You'll hear "The President of an Austin HOA ..." and go OMG! I shouldn't joke. Actually, what I need to do is find a good picture of myself, because ... in short, I'd really like to hear Tim's story about almost being lynched!

Bill"

Bill, in California one act of harassment threatening violence is considered a pattern of harassment. Don't wait until she brings her Derringer wrapped in her pool towel.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Assorted observations:

1. If this lady has been known for bad behavior, why hasn't the board already sent a warning letter to her landlord (copy to the tenant)? Regardless of race, gender, and that stuff, there are rules on pool access and shoukd be applied to everyone.

2. I think your board colleagues are behaving like a bunch of...cowards (I have another term that starts with "P" but I'll not use it) and are leaving it to you to deal with all this pool craziness and that has to stop. You really need to hire a pool monitor (we found off duty cops were very helpful) to handle thus.

3. I'm African-American and of course, I didn't hear what she or you said, but I suspect the lady may have thought this was another "swimming while black" situation erupting (Google it- its happened more often than you might think). That said, she should have shut her yap and simply observed (or pull out a cell phone) and then go to the board if she thought something foul have occurred.

That would have been the time to ask questions like "ma'am, do you know this gentleman- he's never provided any proof of residency when asked. Is he a friend of yours? If so, why haven't you given him a pool pass to present when he comes to the pool? He's also shown up when the pool is closed have you told him what the hours are?" Stuff like that will reveal if this lady's yelling was legitimate or was she jumping to conclusions. When people figure out you're on to their BS, they often back away.

4. That said, I think you were intimidated by her (the dragon breath didn't help), but as others have said, you're board president and an automatic go-to/target of everyone's ire. You can't always control what others do, but you can control how you to react to it.

There are nuances to this which is why I think all board members could use a course on dealing with - angry people. Saying. "leave me alone" is understandable" but can also set people off. Sometimes its best to let people vent and then respond when they take a breath. Do it in a calm, but professional manner - it's not kowtowing to her, but you're not feeding her energy either.

5. Now that the cops have gotten involved, that may keep the young man away, at least for awhile, and while I understand that you and police have better things to do, there has to be a way to make it clear that trespassing cannot and will not be tolerated. That's why I suggested in a previous conversation that it may be time to shut the pool down for the season- you've dealt with bad behavior all summer and even your lifeguards dealt with it and racial slurs. Drain the pool and tell everyone why. Spend the off season looking at ways to reduce the risk - it won't stop everything, but could send a message that everyone has a role in making sure all residents can enjoy the pool in an appropriate manner- after all, their assessments are paying for it

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

SheliaH wrote:
> 1. If this lady has been known for bad behavior, why hasn't the board already sent a warning letter to
> her landlord (copy to the tenant)? Regardless of race, gender, and that stuff, there are rules on pool
> access and should be applied to everyone.

Actually, our mgmt company is sending a letter to the landlord. And - for better or worse - they're
pulling her pool access. Which will probably make her scream even louder. She and a couple of friends
have been giving me *unbelievable* shit on the neighborhood FB page - she'll probably ask one of them
to let her into the pool, and so *their* pool access could get yanked ... at least, in theory.

If she goes to the pool anyway, with her keyfob disabled - I guess I should call the police on her as a
trespasser? I'm completely not sure I want to do that.

I'm still looking at talking to a lawyer. It's going slowly.

> 2. I think your board colleagues are behaving like a bunch of...cowards (I have another term that starts
> with "P" but I'll not use it) and are leaving it to you to deal with all this pool craziness and that has
> to stop. You really need to hire a pool monitor (we found off duty cops were very helpful) to handle thus.

You're sorta correct about the Board. Although in truth, they're mostly just 'checked out'.

> 3. I'm African-American and of course, I didn't hear what she or you said, but I suspect the lady may
> have thought this was another "swimming while black" situation erupting (Google it- its happened more
> often than you might think). That said, she should have shut her yap and simply observed (or pull out a
> cell phone) and then go to the board if she thought something foul have occurred.

I believe that that is more or less what happened. I thought I mentioned it earlier but maybe not: the
reason I was there at the pool was because

- the trespasser (a young black fellow), apparently thinking the pool was empty - hopped the fence (I
was watching on video).
- I called 911 and reported it.
- I hung up.
- About a minute later a resident pulls into the pool parking lot. It's a black fellow with his daughter.
- Ooookay, I just called 911 and reported a black man as a trespasser, and now there are *two* black men
at the pool ...
- I scrammed it up to the pool and arrived just before the police did. I ID'ed myself and told them what
was going on.
- They rousted the trespasser.
- Etc.

> 4. That said, I think you were intimidated by her (the dragon breath didn't help), but as others have
> said, you're board president and an automatic go-to/target of everyone's ire. You can't always control
> what others do, but you can control how you to react to it.

I'm not sure I was "intimidated" but I was certainly surprised. I've got it on video - the video shows me
standing there, one of the cops is offscreen with the trespasser, the other cop is talking to the other
black man plus the "problem person" at the pool gate - and suddenly she slides past the cop while he's
focused on talking to the other person and makes a beeline for me (I'm 15-20 feet away?) and gets in my
face and is yelling at me. I froze for a few seconds - I was surprised - and then said something like
"get away from me!" and I turned / retreated away from her about 10 feet. She followed and is yelling at
me again. I'm yelling (?) "leave me alone!" (or words to that effect). About this time the one cop has
figured out that something is up and approaches and does that cop thing where he gets between me and her
and gets her to move back without touching her. That's the worst of it. And I totally get that "me
describing the video" is no substitute for "seeing it" - but that's more or less what happened. I honestly
don't remember much of what she said - my memory for "he said / she said" is not very good - but I'm pretty
confident about me saying "leave me alone" and so forth. The idea behind "leave me alone" is that if (say)
the police should get involved, there's at least some small chance they'll remember hearing a male voice
say "leave me alone! get out of my face!" At least, that's the theory.

One of the frustrating things about this situation is that yes, I have a video that shows what happened
(with no audio, alas) but - let this be a lesson to all of you - when I started catching grief on FB, I
made a decision to be non-responsive.

I'm a bit depressed that this strategy hasn't been completely effective. A couple of people that I don't
know well (but have been on generally good terms with) have chimed in that I should resign and/or apologize.
Keep in mind that I haven't even tried to present my side of the story, and apparently they're deciding I'm
the Bad Guy based purely on the statements of these three people who've been posting trash. Two of them have
a long history of posting trash about me, for what little it's worth - I've mentioned before I think that
there are elements of a previous administration still hanging around who bear a grudge and like to snipe
at me. From the grassy knoll. There's something on the wing of the plane!

Seriously: it makes me sad. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. In a way it's a sign of how much I've learned
about the HOA biz: I've become *extremely* skeptical about things - but most people aren't, and probably
never will be.

I'm contemplating responding to the trash posting with "who wants to see the video?" *grin*

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Bill, not that you asked but I think your language is pretty risky. Why is he a black man instead of a man? Or a black fellow instead of a fellow? Fair Housing Act. If that particular homeowner with his daughter read this thread, I would be concerned.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Terri brought up a point I forgot to note - it didn't matter if he was purple - trespassing isn't allowed and when you do it, you run the risk of getting caught and all that comes with it. Maybe a bit of soul searching is in order - would you have acted like this if everyone involved was white? Did you perhaps had the "angry black woman" stereotype on the brain when she started yelling at you?

Yes she was rude, but people can and do react based on preconceived notions and don't focus on the issue at hand. And yes, I'm aware that some people react like this lady because so much has happened over the past few years (long before Trump, who seemed to make it acceptable to treat people like they were still in grade school), one goes into high alert because you don't know if someone's about to come out of a bag because he/she/they feels some kind of way about people of color. That's a conversation for another day and probably another forum.

Now back to the subject at hand. I still say your board colleagues have stepped away from all this, and it's a shame because when people see selective enforcement or none at all, they get emboldened and suddenly nothing the board says means much. At the very least they should have your back and right now they don't. You may need to have some sort of cone to Jesus meeting with them - or simply say someone else will have to deal with the pool, because you've had enough.

All of this is on video? Good - if/when this lady and her landlord raise a stink about the pool pass, invite them to an appeals meeting, play the tape and ask them for their side. Before that, play the tape of the young man clearly trespassing. Finally show them previous announcements and whatever else the board has published about trespassing and bad behavior - and yet this still happened.

The young man us one thing because he doesn't live in the community and wouldn't have seen this, but what about the resident? Ask the landlord why ge hasn't addressed the previous run-ins by his/her tenant, and remind HIM/HER owner/landlords are ultimately responsible for the behavior of the tenants and their households, the same as owner-occupants. That should be interesting to listen to.

As for Facebook, that's the bane of social media. It's easy to rant and rave online when most people won't bother to check if anything is true, and the persons who put out this stuff certainly won't say "whoops, my bad" when they get caught.

The board could make a statement addressing trespassing in general, which is probably the best it can do (even though it would be delicious to post the video and let people draw their own opinions. You never know- it may be the folks witnessing this did press play on their Dell phones and one may be tempted to post it, saying "what had happened was..."

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 09/25/2023 2:02 PM
Bill, not that you asked but I think your language is pretty risky. Why is he a black man instead of a man? Or a black fellow instead of a fellow? Fair Housing Act. If that particular homeowner with his daughter read this thread, I would be concerned.

Seriously?

I’d just hung up on a call to 911, where I reported a trespasser. And they asked me to describe him. And he was a black man. I mean, the 911 operator even prompted me for that: “Is he white? Black? …”

And just after I hang up, I see a resident, who is a black man, pull into the pool parking lot.

I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s “racist” or not{1}, I got my ass down to the pool to make sure the cops didn’t make one of those “unfortunate mistakes” we sometimes hear about on the news.

Honestly, I would have gone down to the pool even if the trespasser had been there alone. I’ve been quite aware of police violence for a looong time{2} before May 2020, and unfortunately it didn’t magically go away with George Floyd. I don’t like these people trespassing in our pool. But I don’t think they deserve injury or death.

I dunno, I thought it was obvious. Maybe it’s not. In short, *that’s* why I said “black man” etc.

Bill

{1} and after this summer, I have had *enough* of people calling “racist”.

{2} I’ve been a long-haired hippy type since I was a kid.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Overlooking this person's literally getting in BillD16's face not once but twice and breathing on him, during a pandemic, is not acceptable AFAIC.

I oppose any advice here that does not clearly put physical safety of directors, in situations like this, first and foremost. Failing to prioritize this is a different type of ___-ism, in my opinion.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 09/25/2023 3:19 PM
Terri brought up a point I forgot to note - it didn't matter if he was purple - trespassing isn't allowed and when you do it, you run the risk of getting caught and all that comes with it. Maybe a bit of soul searching is in order - would you have acted like this if everyone involved was white? Did you perhaps had the "angry black woman" stereotype on the brain when she started yelling at you?

Your post arrived while I was answering Terri. I guess I wasn’t clear: the ‘dragon-breath lady’ is white.

For what it’s worth: last week I called 911 on a couple of white trespassers, and yes I went up to the pool to watch it go down. So - yes, I’d have done it the same if everyone was white. Or purple. I may be missing the point of your question, I’m sorry.

I know it’s a waste of electrons to say stuff like “I’m not racist” but I can’t resist trying to give a small amount of background: I’ve been a computer geek / science fiction geek / electronic music geek for 50 years. I was a software engineer at a large corporation for 30 years. And I’m ***really*** ADHD. I’m not good at distinguishing men’s faces - I’m awesome with women’s faces, though: my 2nd career is “Artist” and Jeremy Mann is one of my heroes. Racial characteristics are just attributes to me. A typical person I used to work with might be “bald”, “asian”, “tall”, “good English skills”, “glasses”, “good with Java”, “not good at C/C++”. I know that sounds like some kind of bullshit affectation, but it’s true. Oh well.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

BillD16,

If you want to control what you read on FB, you can put people in your FB group on pause. You can still get postings from those in your group you want to hear from. I did this to my own son and daughter-in-law because we were so far apart politically. Sometimes it's better not to know what they are saying.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 09/25/2023 3:28 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 09/25/2023 2:02 PM
Bill, not that you asked but I think your language is pretty risky. Why is he a black man instead of a man? Or a black fellow instead of a fellow? Fair Housing Act. If that particular homeowner with his daughter read this thread, I would be concerned.

You're too busy defending yourself to consider why I made the comment and that it might help you. To a lot of people, your account wouldn't sound good. Fair Housing Act is a huge risk for HOAs.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

No, you hadn't mentioned the lady was white and I looked at your previous replies to make sure I overlooked your saying that. Even so,myou said you'd called police a week earlier on white trespassers (were these the ones with the dog in your last conversation?) Fine, but what compelled you to say this trespasser was black?

Regarding "dragon breath lady," you said many of the landlords in your community don't seem to care what their tenants do - how many times have we heard that on this website? In a weird way way, she may have reacted towards you because you're the only association type overdone who took an interest. Perhaps she has had a discussion with the landlord about tge previous skirmishes and he/she didn't make any move to intercede in her behalf or didn't react at all. It would have been different if she made noises about withholding the rent - the only thing most of these folks care about. There's also the chance she witnessed some awful behavior towards people of color, but did nothing and feels guilty, so when this happened, she sprang up trying to make up for it.

We may never know, but spewing spit when COVID and who knows what else hasn't gone anywhere was a form of assault, as ElleN noted, not to mention rude and could have easily escalated into something worse, so it's past time to send a message about appropriate behavior and complaining like a mature adult. In addition to a hearing and your playing the video, I'd also insist on a public apology on that Facebook page and then the board will consider the status of her pool pass.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70

Posted:

Bill,

How tall is your fence? We had an issue at the neighborhood pool where there were some after hours swim parties. They were jumping over at one section of the fence near the corner. The fence was raised in that area and drastically cut dowm on the occurrences. Perhaps you can plant some prickly shrubs near the fence so they are forced to go to the gate.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'll repeat my above barely literate advice (I type worse on my laptop than usual).

Cathy's contribution: Make a rule with a hefty fine & potential withdrawal of amenity privileges if violated : "Verbal Abuse of a Board Member Should Not be Tolerated." I'd revise it a little too: "Verbal Abuse or other inappropriate behavior toward Board Members, staff members or vendors will not be tolerated." In your fine schedule, list it with a fine your board agrees on. Tomorrow, our Board's rating ours to $200. Have a true face-to-face meeting with the Board to formulate this rules and proceed as required by your docs or Texas statute. I get the sense that too much occurs online.

The other thing is always contact the owner (landlord) when tenants violate the rules. Other experienced posters have said the same thing. Call the owner to hearing. It doesn't matter if they attend. This woman's owner might get tired of hearing from your HOA and evict her. You do know, that you fine the owner not the tenant, right? That did happen in my HOA once when the tenants were noisy partiers. DO send the owner a copy of the video!! Who knows? This tentant might be a horrible one for her owner.

It seems, BillD, the whenever I bring up making rules and fines as advice for your HOA --which ARE effective, btw--you're non-committal. It suggests to me that your HOA & Board does not have many rules that are published. Is that true? That's why I worry if it's even within your power as a Board to deny this woman pool access. I really think you must check with your HOA GC.

We've had many posters who've com[lained about other saying nasty things about them on FB, ND or elsewhere and I can't recall any helpful advice for them.

(I had originally guessed ADHD in your case Bill, but then thought I was wrong.)

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 09/25/2023 2:02 PM
Bill, not that you asked but I think your language is pretty risky. Why is he a black man instead of a man?

Why do you use "man" instead of a "person"? You need to be careful about the Fair Housing Act (with its provisions prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex as well as (religion, race, disability, familial status, color and national origin).

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 09/25/2023 6:08 PM
No, you hadn't mentioned the lady was white and I looked at your previous replies to make sure I overlooked your saying that. Even so,myou said you'd called police a week earlier on white trespassers (were these the ones with the dog in your last conversation?) Fine, but what compelled you to say this trespasser was black?

-- What compelled you to assume the person complaining was not white?

-- What compels you to refer to the complainer as a "woman" instead of a "person"?

-- Without knowing the trespasser was Black, the reasons the complainer got in BillD16's face are not nearly as evident.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Because what's appropriate language from the Fair Housing standpoint is not appropriate from a law enforcement standpoint. Context is critical. A "Be On the Lookout" notice for a "person"? That's worse than useless.

I chalk it all up to everybody's brains being fried right now. About the heat: recently the Washington Post published an article about the risks of mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, during heat waves. The article noted that during the 2021 heat wave in British Columbia, an astonishing 8% of the people who died from the heat had schizophrenia. Excessive heat can also lead to increased numbers of heart attacks, strokes, kidney diseases, and worsened mental illnesses. In short, heat amplifies whatever weaknesses a person has, and their weaknesses make them more vulnerable to the heat. We're doomed...

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

-- If you are referring to an official police 'be on the lookout' notice, specific to a particular individual being sought: Correct, the law allows the notice to state the gender, race and other descriptive information.

-- I think at least two people here (and no, not the OP) need to own up that they made an assumption about the race of the complainer here, and this assumption was based in an inappropriate stereotype.
So ya know: People in glass houses...

-- But for the grace of the goodness in people, there go I.

-- Looking forward to another thread being deleted.

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 09/26/2023 6:09 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 09/26/2023 5:54 AM
Because what's appropriate language from the Fair Housing standpoint is not appropriate from a law enforcement standpoint. Context is critical. A "Be On the Lookout" notice for a "person"? That's worse than useless.

I had a hunch that this thread was going to lead down this path. I thought the complainer was white from the very start. That was a hunch also even though BillD16 didn't mention her race. Personally I think that we've become much more aware of our language these days when describing others but sometimes old habits are hard to break. I think we should give each other some grace.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkS42 on 09/25/2023 6:12 PM
Bill,

How tall is your fence? We had an issue at the neighborhood pool where there were some after hours swim parties. They were jumping over at one section of the fence near the corner. The fence was raised in that area and drastically cut dowm on the occurrences. Perhaps you can plant some prickly shrubs near the fence so they are forced to go to the gate.

We’re actively soliciting bids on the fence. Austin recently passed a regulation on the matter that isn’t helping: essentially 8ft tall rod-iron pool fences all need to have smooth tops. And, alas, I checked and concertina wire and the like are simply non-starters.

Prickly plants is a good idea; thank you! Plants and trees are definitely part of the problem. It makes me unhappy that we may need to cut down a lot of tall trees that are close to the fence and can be used as ‘climbing aids’.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/26/2023 5:54 AM
Because what's appropriate language from the Fair Housing standpoint is not appropriate from a law enforcement standpoint. Context is critical. A "Be On the Lookout" notice for a "person"? That's worse than useless.

I chalk it all up to everybody's brains being fried right now. About the heat: recently the Washington Post published an article about the risks of mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, during heat waves. The article noted that during the 2021 heat wave in British Columbia, an astonishing 8% of the people who died from the heat had schizophrenia. Excessive heat can also lead to increased numbers of heart attacks, strokes, kidney diseases, and worsened mental illnesses. In short, heat amplifies whatever weaknesses a person has, and their weaknesses make them more vulnerable to the heat. We're doomed...

Part of me tends to agree with this. But another part of me thinks that’s ridiculous, heat can’t possibly cause schizophrenia! And then another part of me says “you’re both racist!” ….

Seriously, for me personally: I really didn’t think this matter had much of a racial component in it - kinda wondering now if I should have left all of that stuff out. I didn’t think about FHA because HOATalk is pretty good about keeping search engine spiders out (not to mention the basic anonymity stuff that I believe we all employ here{1}). I hope no-one will be disappointed when they learn that I’m really a middle-aged housewife living in Corpus Christi.

But I agree with Cathy: the heat has been messing with people’s heads. It seems like it’s beginning to break - we’ve had a few days where the temperatures stayed in the double-digits! - and I feel like things are going back to ‘normal’. Not that normal before the heat was especially normal.

Bill (not afraid of easy jokes)

{1} I’d have zero problem with most of y’all knowing my name, address, phone number … but I don’t want that info *stored* here to come back to bite me in a year or two.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LayaS on 09/26/2023 7:12 AM
Posted By ElleN on 09/26/2023 6:09 AM

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/26/2023 5:54 AM
Because what's appropriate language from the Fair Housing standpoint is not appropriate from a law enforcement standpoint. Context is critical. A "Be On the Lookout" notice for a "person"? That's worse than useless.
-- If you are referring to an official police 'be on the lookout' notice, specific to a particular individual being sought: Correct, the law allows the notice to state the gender, race and other descriptive information.

-- I think at least two people here (and no, not the OP) need to own up that they made an assumption about the race of the complainer here, and this assumption was based in an inappropriate stereotype.
So ya know: People in glass houses...

-- But for the grace of the goodness in people, there go I.

-- Looking forward to another thread being deleted.

I agree. And I’m willing to take the hit for not writing up the situation clearly enough. It’s a lesson I can learn from.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

[yeesh, this site was down today?]

Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/25/2023 7:07 PM
It seems, BillD, the whenever I bring up making rules and fines as advice for your HOA --which ARE effective, btw--you're non-committal. It suggests to me that your HOA & Board does not have many rules that are published. Is that true? That's why I worry if it's even within your power as a Board to deny this woman pool access. I really think you must check with your HOA GC.

I’m not certain of the times I’ve done this, but I believe you. Please don’t ever take “non-committal” as “unappreciative”.

I think that I often post here about situations that are current and active and need action soon or even immediately. We’ve got published Bylaws and CCRs - maybe I’ve got it wrong, but adding rules means updating the CCRs, right? And *that* is a slow, complicated process here at Rejoov of Austin: the Board is effectively ‘checked out’ most of the time, but they’d almost certainly vote to pass any changes past our attorney first, and that almost certainly turns into a couple of rounds of meetings …

As it is: Cathy recommended an article (above in this thread) that makes a good case for the “No noxious activities or behavior” clause that is contained within many CCRs as being enough basis for some kind of member discipline in my current situation. Our PMC seems to agree (along with the tweak that the discipline is going to the Landlord).

We almost certainly will push to make some changes to out CCRs later this year, and I promise you I’ll be rummaging through my notes and old posts looking for items to toss into the brew. Heh, I’m reminded of the recent question Tim asked and ElleN dug up an article on the Brigadoonians and anti-Brigadoonians. We don’t have an “automatic 10 year renewal” clause, but in some ways we have the short doorway for CCR amendment that flickers open only once every year or two.

> (I had originally guessed ADHD in your case Bill, but then thought I was wrong.)

*chuckle* I’m curious why you thought you were wrong?

One thing about people with ADHD (and some other conditions in the same space) is that they often function ‘normally’ if some form of machine-mediated communication is involved. Certain medications can help a lot, too. Although if I took enough medication to make me completely normal, I figure I’d spend 15-20 minutes thinking back on high school and various old relationships, going “oh! So that’s why …” and “golly, if I’d known that at the time …” and then my heart would stop.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

AHA! Check your CC&Rs, BillD,

Unless Texas is different than most states, along with CC&Rs (and your Bylaws) your HOA may make rules, some times called Rules & Regulations. In Calif. and many states, the Board makes them so there's no long process. I think I've seen a Texas poster write that th Board should discuss proposed rules at an open meeting of the Board. Do not count on me being correct here.

Rules generally elaborate on CC&R restrictions. In Calif. They ARE a governing document and maybe in TX, too. Rules may not contradict or conflict with the CC&R (or Bylaws if relevant).

Another reason I think Texas, thus your CC&Rs, permit "rules," is Roger's recent post about Texas maybe passing new legislation about fining. Take a look! I don't know about most HOAs, but our fines and fining schedule are in our Rules Handbook. Hoping some of our fine Texas posters are following your thread like Mark or the PM, Barbara or another Bill?

IF your CC&Rs do NOT have a restriction against noxious behavior, make a rule.

HA! I grew up surrounded by ADHD kin except nobody knew about it back then. No, as with you, so much about my mainly absent dad and others is clear to hme. One of my adult kids is ADHD. Get this: My sister always struggled in grade school, was even held back, but made it thru Community College and somehow got her degree & teaching credential through supreme effort. Upon divorcing with a little child, she decided she needed a better salary & decide to get an MA is special needs kids ed . Almost her very week of her first course, she spoke loudly to herself, omigod! that's me; and again and again. She quickly learned she's dyslexic and is ADHD. She started meds and found she liked learning and it wasn't so hard after all. I'm very proud of her accomplishments all the special needs student she helped for many years thereafter.

I was, in your case, BillD, eventually leaning towards PTSD, but have no direct experience with it.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

So earlier this week the PMC sent Dragon Breath Lady’s landlord a Violation notice that mentioned “interfering with a police matter” and “verbally assaulting a Board member”, and their pool key fobs are suspended for a month.

Today our PM wrote me and said “sorry, but we can’t suspend their key fob”. TPC 209.051 is referenced as the reason.

There’s some irony here in that I feel more at risk of assault by a tenant than I fear assault from one of the trespassers I’ve been trying to discourage from visiting our pool.

I’m not really looking for advice or sympathy - y’all have been great about that - when I post about a situation here, I feel a certain sense of obligation to follow up, and that’s what I’m doing here.

I’m currently feeling sorta disgusted with the entire HOA system. I’ll live.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Say, Bill, you clearly aren't interested in learning TX statutes that affect HOAs, and apparently neither is the board, I think I mentioned maybe 2-3 times that you/your PM probably cannot summarily suspend an Owner's privileges and certainly not a renter's. I think I even suggested consulting with your HOA attorney. Now, in such matters I urge you to consult with an HOA attorney. Y'all are headed for trouble,imo, due to lack of knowledge.

It's obvious to anyone who'll take 5 minutes to read TX 209.051 (h) (8) that: "The board may not, unless done in an open meeting for which prior notice was given to owners under Subsection (e), consider or vote on8) a suspension of a right of a particular owner before the owner has an opportunity to attend a board meeting to present the owner's position, including any defense, on the issue;..." this very well may be in your CC&Rs as it is in ours.

This is pretty basic in most states so far as I know that your PM does NOT know this basic right for Owners would be hugely troubling to me if I were on your Board. She really did send such a fake suspension notice ? I hope the Owner doesn't try any legal action, e.g., accusing the Board of harassing the renter. Again, since you're not the one to dig an into these documents and your PM is ignorant, I don't know what to advise. I think you might try to assign a board member the task of learning what the whole Board & your PM should already know. Or schedule a seminar with your HOA attorney about the basic fundamentals of HOAs in TX?

Meanwhile assume the pool'll close soon. I know this renter has gotten in your face, literally, but from what you wrote, is there the threat of physical violence?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

For how to suspend an owner's (and so tenant's) right to use amenities, ditto the advice to read TPC 209, and in particular, 209.006,

Just keyword search https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm for "suspen" (so as to get all the variations on the word, including "suspend" and "suspension"). There's only eight hits for "suspen," but they are pithy.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

I hear you guys. The HOA attorney is indeed involved, and she’s mentioned the stuff you’ve mentioned.

My counter to much of the above is two things:

TPC 209.0051 (h)(4) "initiation of enforcement actions, excluding temporary restraining orders or violations involving a threat to health or safety;" (emphasis mine)

The violation letter itself is for "Violation: Hazardous Activities - Hazardous Activities - General"
"The tenants at _____ interfered with a police matter at the pool and verbally assaulted a Board member"

I'm 63 years old, I've so far managed to avoid COVID, but I'm high risk (diabetic / cancer survivor) and yes I do consider someone screaming in my face to be a health risk. I believe I mentioned early on that I could feel the moisture in her breath on my face. I'm not kidding around when I tell you that I consider this person’s behavior to be a threat to my health and safety. CDC says “Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus.” I’m on day 7.

Additionally:

Sec. 209.007. HEARING BEFORE BOARD; ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (d) and only if the owner is entitled to an opportunity to cure the violation, the owner has the right to submit a written request for a hearing to discuss and verify facts and resolve the matter in issue before the board.
(b) Repealed by Acts 2021, 87th Leg., R.S., Ch. 951 (S.B. 1588), Sec. 22(2), eff. September 1, 2021.
(c) The association shall hold a hearing under this section not later than the 30th day after the date the board receives the owner's request for a hearing and shall notify the owner of the date, time, and place of the hearing not later than the 10th day before the date of the hearing. The board or the owner may request a postponement, and, if requested, a postponement shall be granted for a period of not more than 10 days. Additional postponements may be granted by agreement of the parties. The owner or the association may make an audio recording of the meeting.
(d) The notice and hearing provisions of Section 209.006 and this section do not apply if the association files a suit seeking a temporary restraining order or temporary injunctive relief or files a suit that includes foreclosure as a cause of action. If a suit is filed relating to a matter to which those sections apply, a party to the suit may file a motion to compel mediation. The notice and hearing provisions of Section 209.006 and this section do not apply to a temporary suspension of a person's right to use common areas if the temporary suspension is the result of a violation that occurred in a common area and involved a significant and immediate risk of harm to others in the subdivision. The temporary suspension is effective until the board makes a final determination on the suspension action after following the procedures prescribed by this section. (again, emphasis mine)

Feel free to tell me I’m tripping. The violation did occur in a common area.

Bill

PS: this may well be irrelevant: TPC 209.006 says a notice must be sent by “certified mail” but also says that a notice must be sent by “verified mail”. Given 209.007 above, I’m not certain if either of these applies. If 209.007 is irrelevant and TPS 209.006 *does* apply, I’m not certain which of “certified mail” or “verified mail” applies. Are they the same thing? I don’t know, but

TPC 209.002. DEFINITIONS (13) "Verified mail" means any method of mailing for which evidence of mailing is provided by the United States Postal Service or a common carrier.

I do not know for certain how the letter was sent. The last time I went to the post office to mail a letter, I seem to recall being offered several options. I do not know which, if any, provided “evidence of mailing”. I know that I’m splitting hairs, but it might be that I / the Board simply needs to ask our PM to Re-send the violation via certified mail.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

This just in: Dragon Breath Lady has been calling and texting and emailing our PM, and even stopped by in person (but the PM wasn’t there).

The PM and I are both eagerly awaiting word from our attorney.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement