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JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
If our board was formed without elections and they refuse to have elections, is it a legal board? Do I still have to listen to them if they refuse to have elections?

Our treasurer is self-appointed for 6 years and has ignored requests to view financial documents so I stopped paying my HOA dues for the last 3 months. He is now threatening to sue me. Someone told me he has no legal standing if the board was not formed through elections?

Is this true?

Thank you.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173
Posted:
They are legal until challenged.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
PAY YOUR ASSESSMENTS !!!

If you want to challenge the legalities of your Associations board, you do that through the courts.
Choosing to stop paying assessments will result in you paying late fees (at the least) or losing your home (at the worst). If the issue goes to an attorney, you will then have legal fees (both yours and the Associations) in addition to your assessments.

Again, PAY YOUR ASSESSMENTS !!!

The person who said that the individual serving as treasurer has no legal standing is very likely wrong.

Is your Association still under control of the developer? If this is true, then it's likely that the developer has the full authority to appoint whomever they wish to the board until they are out of the picture.

Has you Association been holding general membership meetings to have elections but failed to reach quorum? If this is the case, then per applicable statutes (laws) those who have been serving remain in office.

Regarding access to the financial records, you should be able to review all but the ledgers of any other lot but your own. If the treasurer is refusing -
1) make sure you are requesting the records properly and not asking for things your not allowed to see.
2) Put everything in writing, citing applicable sections of the governing documents and State Statutes (both property and corporate).
3) if need be, consult an attorney and have them write a letter on your behalf to see the records.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/15/2023 7:14 PM
If our board was formed without elections and they refuse to have elections, is it a legal board?
In California, the correct response to this is first, to ask for Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR). See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/I/Internal-Dispute-Resolution

If IDR fails, the owner next informs the Board that he/she will take the HOA to Small Claims Court. For an introduction to how to proceed, see https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5145.

Whatever an owner's dispute with a HOA (or its board or its manager) may be, the covenants require that the owner either continue to pay assessments, or face the penalties for not doing so. The penalties may include late fees, interest and typically a staggering amount of collections attorney fees.

I advise you to pay what you owe now, then pursue getting proper elections completed.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What Tim and Ellen said.

And where are the rest of your neighbors in all this????? When these folks stood up and said "we're the HOA board," why didn't anyone speak up?

You can do two things at the same time - pay your assessments AND start talking to your neighbors. All of you may wind up passing the hat to get an attorney to compel this "board" to straighten up" - or just sack them altogether and vote for a new board. While you're at it, you may as well prepare to bring in an accountant to grab the documents the treasurer has prepared (such as they are) so you can track where the assessments have been going for the last six years.

Finally, READ YOUR DOCUMENTS - the answer to this question was already in there, so you and your neighbors can save yourselves time and some trouble by getting better acquainted with them. Good luck.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With others: Pay your assessments ASAP!!!

Please tell us a little more about your situation: How many homes or condos? What size is your Board? For the next ones: if you don't know the answer, check you Bylaws: What size is your Board supposed to be? When are elections supposed to be held? How often must the Board hold Board meetings? Do they?

Another place to find answers to the above is in your Election Rules, which are required in all Calif. HOAs. Read them.

Is it possible your HOA elected the required number of directors by "acclamation?" This means that only the number of owners ran for election that are required, or even fewer. In such a case, the Board basically can simply announce that those who're currently directors were the only ones interested in serving. So they, by stating names, were elected by acclamation because there was no competition.

Do you have a property manager? If so, in writing send a request to review the financials for this year and the past two years (no further back is permitted by law.) If no PM, send that written request to every member of the board.

I'm not sure what you mean that the treasurer is "self-appointed." What action did s/he take to become treasurer?

Finally, there's an excellent website about CA HOAs with a fine Index to look up elections in CA HOAs: Visit Davis-stirling.com. also list the site to see "Records Inspections" and how to request them.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jason
Typically BOD elections are part of an association's Annual Meeting. In order to conduct business at this meeting, including elections, there must be a quorum established which is a certain % of owners in attendance either in person or via a Proxy. The size of the quorum should be in your Bylaws. I have seen it range from 10% to 50%.

If a quorum is not established, then the existing BOD stays in place until the next Annual Meeting/Election. Thus possible for the same people to be on the BOD year after year.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
PAY YOUR ASSESSMENTS! You have NO power at all if you do not pay. That gives them all the power over you. We won't discuss the stupid idea of them suing you for the money. That is another discussion. However, they should have the power to lien or even foreclose on you for NOT paying your dues. Plus you could be considered a member NOT in good standing. Losing all your voting rights. NOT paying your dues isn't a "Screw you". It's more of your going to screw yourself.

Question viewing is different than being handed a copy. You may have to pay for that copy. You may be able to make arrangements to VIEW the documents. Don't get stuck on "Your rights" by dying on that sword. There are better ways of approaching the situation. Maybe step back and re-examine your needs and wants. Why is it you want these documents? Is it because it's your "right" or the HOA is broke?

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Jason,

In May, you asked not paying assessments because the Association was administratively dissolved for failing to file an annual report to the corporation commission.

In that thread the responses said that you needed to pay the assessments.

In this thread, you said that you chose to stop paying assessments and it has been three months.

If it's a financial issue, you may need to consider adjustments to allow you to pay assessments.
If it's a principal issue, please follow what has been outlined here to obtain the records you seek.

JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
And how would you challenge them?
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
And how would you challenge them?

JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
And how would you challenge them?

JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
And how would you challenge them?
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
This is helpful, thank you.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:06 PM
And how would you challenge them?

Through Small Claims Courts
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
We have 10 units. 5 of the units are investors who live overseas. I have emailed them about these issues with no response. No one cares.
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Thank you. We have 10 units. Our board is three members. A President, a Treasurer, and myself (Vice President). When I bought my condo 6 yers ago they were already on the board. They then asked me to join. Since I joined i realized how poor a job the Treasurer is doing. No one is asking for elections and no one else has an interest in joining. So maybe the "acclamation" thing applies to us?

We have no property manager.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Do the other 5 unit owners live in your HOA. Jason? Are any of them on the Board?
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Thank you for the info. Why do you say the idea of them suing me is "stupid"?
JasonP7 (California)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Yes, 5 people live here. 3 of us are on the board. The other owners are just extremely apathetic and don't care or respond to emails.
AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:27 PM
Yes, 5 people live here. 3 of us are on the board. The other owners are just extremely apathetic and don't care or respond to emails.

It looks like you have a very, very small pool of owners to volunteer. I probably would not make this an issue.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Is the treasurer one of the three board members? If so you two other board members may vote him out of the office of treasurer. Then you & the other board member vote to have your signatures on your bank accounts t so that you can review the bills and dues payments, etc. He would still be a board member, though. How is it that he has all th records? Do owners send their dues to him?

Since you are a member of the board, you have the legal right to review all HOA documents.

If there haven't been any elections for directors for a long time, how is it that there is a Board? Were you all elected long ago and no one has wanted to be on the Board since then? And since you're on the Board, who is the "them" to whom you keep referring?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Correction: whether or not the treasurer is on the Board, you two other board members may vote him out of the office of treasurer. BUT, since you're delinquent with your dues, do your Bylaws say you may still be a director?

None of us can see your Bylaws or Election Rules, so you must read them & tell us what they say. But,and I have no experience with really small HOAs, form what I've seen on this forum, there can be many challenges with such small numbers.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
First, study Civil Code sections 5100-5145 on elections.
If you have an issue with assessment, pay them “under protest” but pay them.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:06 PM
And how would you challenge them?

You challenge what you are positive about.

You are allowed to review financial records.
Per your posting, your treasurer is saying no.

Since you are on the board:
1) politely make the request at a board meeting (it's harder for the Treasurer to blatantly say no).
2) Followup with a written request
3) if still no results, proceed with IDR as Elle suggested.

Question: Are you willing to take on the role of Treasurer if you don't like what you find?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:08 PM
We have 10 units. 5 of the units are investors who live overseas. I have emailed them about these issues with no response. No one cares.

California HOA elections can be done entirely by mail. You will need their ballots to reach a quorum to hold the meeting to count the ballots - probably 6 is your quorum. But for director elections, if the quorum isn't met the first time, either the ballot return period can be extended or the quorum percentage is reduced. That should all be in your governing documents.

Also, usually 5% of membership is needed to call a special meeting where it can be discussed.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:16 PM
Thank you for the info. Why do you say the idea of them suing me is "stupid"?

Because she has to say it every time someone asks a question in this forum. It's her mantra.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AidylP1 on 09/16/2023 4:55 PM
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:27 PM
Yes, 5 people live here. 3 of us are on the board. The other owners are just extremely apathetic and don't care or respond to emails.


It looks like you have a very, very small pool of owners to volunteer. I probably would not make this an issue.

Make it an issue. There is nothing more important than your finances, and to have an unchecked treasurer is suicide.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/16/2023 6:37 PM
Is the treasurer one of the three board members? If so you two other board members may vote him out of the office of treasurer. Then you & the other board member vote to have your signatures on your bank accounts t so that you can review the bills and dues payments, etc. He would still be a board member, though. How is it that he has all th records? Do owners send their dues to him?

Since you are a member of the board, you have the legal right to review all HOA documents.

If there haven't been any elections for directors for a long time, how is it that there is a Board? Were you all elected long ago and no one has wanted to be on the Board since then? And since you're on the Board, who is the "them" to whom you keep referring?

Kerry's is the best advice.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 09/16/2023 8:22 PM
First, study Civil Code sections 5100-5145 on elections.
If you have an issue with assessment, pay them “under protest” but pay them.

Please see CA Civil Code section 5658 re payment under protest:

a) If a dispute exists between the owner of a separate interest and the association regarding any disputed charge or sum levied by the association, including, but not limited to, an assessment, fine, penalty, late fee, collection cost, or monetary penalty imposed as a disciplinary measure, and the amount in dispute does not exceed the jurisdictional limits of the small claims court stated in Sections 116.220 and 116.221 of the Code of Civil Procedure, the owner of the separate interest may, in addition to pursuing dispute resolution pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 5925) of Chapter 10, pay under protest the disputed amount and all other amounts levied, including any fees and reasonable costs of collection, reasonable attorney's fees, late charges, and interest, if any, pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 5650, and commence an action in small claims court pursuant to Chapter 5.5 (commencing with Section 116.110) of Title 1 of the Code of Civil Procedure.

(b) Nothing in this section shall impede an association's ability to collect delinquent assessments as provided in this article or Article 3 (commencing with Section 5700).
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/15/2023 7:14 PM
If our board was formed without elections and they refuse to have elections, is it a legal board? Do I still have to listen to them if they refuse to have elections?

Our treasurer is self-appointed for 6 years and has ignored requests to view financial documents so I stopped paying my HOA dues for the last 3 months. He is now threatening to sue me. Someone told me he has no legal standing if the board was not formed through elections?

Is this true?

Thank you.

A director has unlimited access to all association records.
CIVIL CODE SECTION 5235. ENFORCEMENT OF RECORDS INSPECTION RIGHTS.
(a) A member may bring an action to enforce that member’s right to inspect and copy the association records. If a court finds that the association unreasonably withheld access to the association records, the court shall award the member reasonable costs and expenses, including reasonable attorney’s fees, and may assess a civil penalty of up to five hundred dollars ($500) for the denial of each separate written request.

(b) A cause of action under this section may be brought in small claims court if the amount of the demand does not exceed the jurisdiction of that court.

(c) A prevailing association may recover any costs if the court finds the action to be frivolous, unreasonable, or without foundation.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Transfers needing board approval:

CIVIL CODE SECTION 5502. BOARD AUTHORIZATION OF FINANCIAL TRANSFERS.
Notwithstanding any other law, transfers of greater than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or 5 percent of an association’s total combined reserve and operating account deposits, whichever is lower, shall not be authorized from the association’s reserve or operating accounts without prior written board approval. This section shall apply in addition to any other applicable requirements of this part.

*Effective January 1, 2022, Section 5502 will be amended to read as follows:

(a) Notwithstanding any other law, transfers shall not be authorized from the association’s reserve or operating accounts without prior written approval from the board of the association unless the amount of the transfer is less than the following:

(1) The lesser of five thousand dollars ($5,000) or 5 percent of the estimated income in the annual operating budget, for associations with 50 or less separate interests.

(2) The lesser of ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or 5 percent of the estimated income in the annual operating budget, for associations with 51 or more separate interests.

(b) This section applies in addition to any other applicable requirements of this part.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Required by law on a monthly basis:

CIVIL CODE SECTION 5500. BOARD REVIEW OF ASSOCIATION FINANCES.
Unless the governing documents impose more stringent standards, the board shall do all of the following:

(a) Review, on a monthly basis, a current reconciliation of the association’s operating accounts.

(b) Review, on a monthly basis, a current reconciliation of the association’s reserve accounts.

(c) Review, on a monthly basis, the current year’s actual operating revenues and expenses compared to the current year’s budget.

(d) Review, on a monthly basis, the latest account statements prepared by the financial institutions where the association has its operating and reserve accounts.

(e) Review, on a monthly basis, an income and expense statement for the association’s operating and reserve accounts.

(f) Review, on a monthly basis, the check register, monthly general ledger, and delinquent assessment receivable reports.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:11 PM
Thank you. We have 10 units. Our board is three members. A President, a Treasurer, and myself (Vice President). When I bought my condo 6 yers ago they were already on the board. They then asked me to join. Since I joined i realized how poor a job the Treasurer is doing. No one is asking for elections and no one else has an interest in joining. So maybe the "acclamation" thing applies to us?
-- If the Board is not even trying to run an election every year, the board is in violation of the covenants.

-- I would not threaten suit while on the board. I would resign first.

-- Do your bylaws require directors to be up-to-date on assessments to serve on the board? This is a common requirement.

-- Do understand that "officers" (president, treasure, VP here) are not synonymous with "directors." Legally officers and directors have different roles. If you want to know more on this point, ask.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JasonP7 on 09/16/2023 4:11 PM
Thank you. We have 10 units. Our board is three members. A President, a Treasurer, and myself (Vice President). When I bought my condo 6 yers ago they were already on the board. They then asked me to join. Since I joined i realized how poor a job the Treasurer is doing. No one is asking for elections and no one else has an interest in joining. So maybe the "acclamation" thing applies to us?

We have no property manager.

Re acclamation, it has to be included in your election rules and there is a special notice that has to be sent at the beginning of the election process. Then there have to be no more candidates than there are openings and all those candidates have to be qualified per your election rules.

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