Drywall

Started by KathyL9 • 11 replies • 237 views

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KathyL9 (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Good Afternoon,

The HOA recently offered cover the cost of deficient (painted) sprinkler heads noted during the annual fire sprinkler inspections and repair of the drywall that had to be removed around the sprinkler head to accommodate this work, if applicable. They are now reneging on that decision and holding the owner responsible for the sprinkler head (which is not unusual) and the drywall repairs. If the drywall had to be cut due to a painted sprinkler head, should the owner be responsible for the drywall under the circumstances. Keep in mind the HOA switched vendors and accepted a lower bid from a different fire sprinkler company that had to cut drywall around every single sprinkler head which was not the case in the past. Now homeowners have big giant holes in their walls. I welcome your thoughts.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KathyL9 on 09/13/2023 10:21 AM
Good Afternoon,

The HOA recently offered cover the cost of deficient (painted) sprinkler heads noted during the annual fire sprinkler inspections and repair of the drywall that had to be removed around the sprinkler head to accommodate this work, if applicable. They are now reneging on that decision and holding the owner responsible for the sprinkler head (which is not unusual) and the drywall repairs. If the drywall had to be cut due to a painted sprinkler head, should the owner be responsible for the drywall under the circumstances. Keep in mind the HOA switched vendors and accepted a lower bid from a different fire sprinkler company that had to cut drywall around every single sprinkler head which was not the case in the past. Now homeowners have big giant holes in their walls. I welcome your thoughts.

This category of dispute (who is responsible for interior wall features when HOA does repairs) comes up a lot here. Without seeing your condo's governing documents, I believe responding intelligently is not possible.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The usual answer to issues of this sort: Check your CC&Rs/Declaration, and look for the sections that define "Unit", "Common Elements", and "Limited Common Elements". Then check the sections that address owner responsibilities and association responsibilities. If your condos are like most, the drywall is considered part of the Unit and will be the owner's responsibility to repair. The sprinkler system is *probably* Common Elements, but it could also contain portions such as a sprinkler head that may be considered part of the Unit. So read your CC&Rs carefully, and look for language that addresses shared pipes and pipes that serve only one unit - the former is usually considered Common Elements, and the latter is usually considered part of the Unit. But it's possible that your CC&Rs say something different

What may make this more complicated - as if it isn't complicated on its own - is the possibility of a construction defect and how/if something like this may be covered by insurance.

I'm not surprised that the board has changed their minds as new information comes in. Maybe they had a talk with the insurer who told them that the association isn't covered for everything that the board originally wanted to pay for.

It's also possible that your HO6 policy may cover some of these repairs, so it's worth having a chat with your insurer as well.

Best case scenario would be allowing the various insurers to sort things out among themselves, but they may or may not be involved depending on the nature of the defect and repairs.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

If I owned a Florida condo, and given how Florida insurers are either denying people any insurance or raising premiums by percentages in three figures, I would never contact my insurer over little stuff like this.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Good point. Could account for the board's change of heart. Or they re-read the CC&Rs and said "oops..." Hard to tell without seeing the CC&Rs.

For what it's worth, when we deal with maintenance issues in my community, the association repairs the items that are their responsibility per our CC&Rs and the owners repair the items that they're responsible for. It's pretty clear cut, and owners would have to pay for the drywall if something like this happened here. The only exception is in the case of an insurable event, in which case the association's master policy can cover portions of the unit since we have all-included insurance.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes, do check the various areas of your CC&Rs. The trouble is that my condo CC&Rs and ones we've read about here do not list every single item that terminates in your condo unit. But in my multi-story HOA, owners are responsible for the replacement of sprinkler heads. Reasons are that residents are the ones who can mess them up, with say, paint, which also has occurred in my HOA, or a heavy coat of dust when doing in-Unit rehabs, etc. Why should all my neighbors pay when I'm sloppy or careless?

A second reason, which may be very clear in your CC&Rs, is the horizontal piping to each individual sprinkler head (I have 12) services solely my Unit and no others. Like many other utility terminations, e.g., valves to turn off my toilet water, etc., etc., that may not be listed in the CC&Rs, I'm responsible. The wording in your CC&Rs under "Units," "Improvements," and possibly "limited common elements," may help.

I'd say the holes in your walls (or in my ceilings) form the work also is the unit owner's responsibility. I don't recall they in my HOA, but often didn't know the exact work done in Units to repair the heads. I just received a notch today from our property manger stating all of the sprinkler heads that must be replaced. Many in our common Areas (we did have many for rehab in our lobbies and hallways, and replacements in 12 condo units, which, per the notice, will be billed to the owners.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/13/2023 11:00 AM
The usual answer to issues of this sort: Check your CC&Rs/Declaration, and look for the sections that define "Unit", "Common Elements", and "Limited Common Elements". Then check the sections that address owner responsibilities and association responsibilities. If your condos are like most, the drywall is considered part of the Unit and will be the owner's responsibility to repair. The sprinkler system is *probably* Common Elements, but it could also contain portions such as a sprinkler head that may be considered part of the Unit. So read your CC&Rs carefully, and look for language that addresses shared pipes and pipes that serve only one unit - the former is usually considered Common Elements, and the latter is usually considered part of the Unit. But it's possible that your CC&Rs say something different

What may make this more complicated - as if it isn't complicated on its own - is the possibility of a construction defect and how/if something like this may be covered by insurance.

I'm not surprised that the board has changed their minds as new information comes in. Maybe they had a talk with the insurer who told them that the association isn't covered for everything that the board originally wanted to pay for.

It's also possible that your HO6 policy may cover some of these repairs, so it's worth having a chat with your insurer as well.

Best case scenario would be allowing the various insurers to sort things out among themselves, but they may or may not be involved depending on the nature of the defect and repairs.

Great reply.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

I found this about incidental damages. It may apply outside of Florida to all of us.

"Typically, a Declaration of Condominium (“Declaration”) will contain an “incidental damage” clause that provides the association must repair damages to a unit caused during the association’s repair of the common elements. However, not all Declarations have this language. In the absence of such language, unit owners are indeed responsible to repair damages to their unit and/or personal property caused by the association during the course of the association performing maintenance to the common elements."

https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2009/07/22/incidental-damages-who-pays/

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why drywall? Should this not be concrete board since near water?

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Melissa,

1. Cement board is used as a backing for tile, brick, masonry, etc., into which sprinkler heads (and their piping) are not installed.

2. The OP makes zero mention of being near the water. Even a house we owned in Miami was about 5 miles from the water.

3. My costal multi-story high rise is 100 yards from a huge body of salt water. All of the interior wall finishes are wall board.

4. How does sheetrock relate at all to Kathy's subject?

Interesting citation from Jeff. I don't think my declaration states that. It IS worth condo owners' time to search for that. Ours does state that the HOA may break down a unit's door in an emergency (say water leaking from that unit to the units( below. If that unit was not, in fact, the source of the water leaks, the HOA would cover the cost of replacing the door.

In the OP's case, though, the HOA isn't replacing a required separate interest element--the owner's sprinkler head--that it damaged. Instead, the Owners damaged it. If busting though a ceiling or wall is required for the replacement, it doesn't seem fair that all HOA owners should foot the bill.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Uhm... Isn't a sprinkler system full of water? So if it was to break wouldn't it be better to have cement board instead of drywall? I have no idea what your talking about being "5 miles" from water have anything to do with having or not having cement board. We had it on our houses on the first 3 feet. It protected the house from flooding and splash back when it rained.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Since you wrote "near water," I assumed you meant a body of water, Melissa. If the sprinklers turn on, which is what you're talking about, the sheetrock isn't "near" water, it's getting soaked with water. In 22 years, this has happened 1-2 times in our 200+ condo units. So the odds are really tiny.

I don't know what you mean that the sprinkler system might "break" and you seem to think water would be everywhere? And the odds of that happening? Yet, all buildings with sprinkler systems should use cement board?? They simply do not.

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