💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Hello everyone.
Our community common areas have been maintained for over 20 years as part of our maintenance dues.

Suddenly, the new management , and our board president decided that a few areas, which have been maintained for over 20 years, (Mowed, and weeded, removal of dead trees, etc) were to be no longer maintained, and declared the areas not common as per the by- law. The residents in those areas are elderly (70 and 80 years old). The county Zoning board agrees that these areas are indeed common to all the residents.

Due to this, the areas have become seriously overgrown, and snakes, and rats have infested these areas. (Two snakes were found in the elderly folks residents home, and they also had to call a pest control company to remove these vermin from their homes, and attics.

The board now has agreed to take care of the areas BUT that the elderly residents will have to pay for the cleanup, pest control and maintenance, and that they personally have to paint a common wall (There are four homes sharing the wall, one section of the wall was damaged due to the removal of a dead tree when the board agreed to take care of that item which was threatening to fall on one of the homes.

Some of the residents are about to take the board president to court for causing a dangerous, unsanitary condition , and mental suffering to the elderly residents , due to the consequences of the lack of care and maintenance, (Which although discussed in our by-laws, was never applied, since these areas have been maintained as part of their maintenance dues of for many years.)

Apparently There have been previous such cases , in Florida , where a management, HOA Board or a particular member has been instrumental in causing the situation, and has been fined for such action.

I have attached the By-law section regarding this matter.

Any input is welcome.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Where is the Elderly abuse happening????
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think Fred's title is just click bait, LetA. At lest that's what I hope!

We don't see an attachment, Fred. In addition, normally requiements about who maintain what aspects of your HOA are usually found in your CC&Rs (AKA Covenants; deed restrictions; declaration).
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
The attachments were returned as too large. Ill try it again here. again.
WTF does "click Bait "Mean. ? This is a very serious matter. No need to add insult to injury, KL1.
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Florida. Palm Beach Area.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Fred

I am not saying it is not an issue/problem, but it is far from elderly abuse.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
FredW5, this is a dispute about the HOA's covenants. Specifically, certain owners say that the covenants say the HOA is responsible for maintaining xyz. The HOA says not so.

The fact that the HOA maintained xyz for many years may work in favor of the owners.

Either way, the interested owners will have to hire an attorney.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Where is the elder abuse? They just shouting stuff out to see what sticks and makes the HOA panic? Plus they would NOT sue the HOA President. The lawsuit would be against the ENTIRE HOA. That means EVERY member in the HOA. You ALL get sued. The President/board do have a "corporate shield" that has to be pierced. If they were acting on the behalf of the HOA and it is HOA business they can't be personally responsible. There is liability insurance involved for board members.

So first off the "rumors" and threats of lawsuits is a passive aggressive way to control and put fear into people who don't understand the law. Is there an actual lawsuit filed? I highly doubt it.

The HOA can end up having a special assessment of EVERY member to pay for the neglect. This would NOT be a case where IF the HOA was responsible for lawncare the individual owner is billed. IF they are HOA members and pay dues, then the HOA is responsible for that expense. The wall painting may be a different story.

Now if your HOA is NOT responsible for lawncare for the members, then that means the owners can be fined for the neglect. The HOA can enforce the rules for lawncare standards.

There is a caveat that the HOA can pay to clean up a violation and then send the member the bill for the clean up. If the owner doesn't pay the bill, the HOA can lien for that bill. That could be the situation or angle the HOA board or MC is taking.

Any way you slice it, there is no "elder abuse". There may be a case for the HOA to have to pay for the cleanup since they decided to neglect the area. Again that means EVERY owner foots the bill. It's NOT the "President/MC/Board".

Former HOA President
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Fred,
I am also confused by this post. You say that now the HOA is taking back ownership of the issues and charging the owners for the mtce. This is what all HOAs do every day. It is called the dues you pay to live in one. If this land is owned by the HOA, it is the HOA's responsibility to maintain. If it is considered Open Space maybe the Maintenace is limited, and the area does not get regularly scheduled maintenance. If it is still owned any repairs should still fall under the HOAs meaning Every owner pays for this cost.

Worst Subject line of the Month by the way.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Yeah, in order for it to be "elder abuse", you'd have to demonstrate that the HOA targeted these residents because they were elderly. Did the HOA do similar things to others who were not elderly? Are other elderly residents being mistreated in other ways? Or did the board at the time make a mistake and the lot owners in question just happened to be elderly? If the owners of the lot happened to have children, would anyone be hollering "Fair Housing"?

It's more likely that this was a case of clueless board members thinking they could save a few bucks by not maintaining some common areas or thinking that they had the authority to redefine these areas, and now they get to spend those bucks. The owners in question will have to chat with a lawyer, though, since there is no way they should have to pay for the cleanup. The entire HOA benefited by "saving a few bucks", so the entire HOA needs to pay for the mistake.

In order to fine the board, you'd probably have to demonstrate that their past actions were deliberate misbehavior and not garden-variety cluelessness. This is another of those cases where it's possible to end up financially worse off by pursuing legal remedies than you would have by just letting things go.

Also keep in mind that insurers in Florida are looking for any excuse to jack up premiums or dump clients altogether. Legal issues can get an insurer's attention, so that's another factor in determining whether or not an issue is worth fussing over.
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your input. This comment, especially was very enlightening.

"It's more likely that this was a case of clueless board members thinking they could save a few bucks by not maintaining some common areas or thinking that they had the authority to redefine these areas, and now they get to spend those bucks. The owners in question will have to chat with a lawyer, though, since there is no way they should have to pay for the cleanup. The entire HOA benefited by "saving a few bucks", so the entire HOA needs to pay for the mistake.

In order to fine the board, you'd probably have to demonstrate that their past actions were deliberate misbehavior and not garden-variety cluelessness. This is another of those cases where it's possible to end up financially worse off by pursuing legal remedies than you would have by just letting things go.

Also keep in mind that insurers in Florida are looking for any excuse to jack up premiums or dump clients altogether. Legal issues can get an insurer's attention, so that's another factor in determining whether or not an issue is worth fussing over."

Heres a response today, from the Board President to the residents affected..

"Dear Homeowners,

While the HOA Bylaws clearly spell out the responsibilities of the HOA Board and notes that it is each

individual homeowner’s responsibility to maintain a walled or fenced in area of their home, we recognize that precedent

has been set by previous HOA Boards for many years.. Therefore, we will agree to maintain the walled area behind your homes.

However, this maintenance will be limited to the following services:

(1) Mowing the lawn according to the schedule set for all homes.

(2) Periodic lawn fertilization and weed mitigation.

Each property owner will continue to have responsibility for maintaining the plants and shrubs within this area.

However, other tree maintenance within the areas will continue to be the homeowner’s responsibility as noted in the Bylaws.

When tree trimming occurs ,all homeowners are given notice that they may contract with our tree

trimmer to address trees within the common area at their expense."

"
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thanks, Cathy. I forwarded your comments to the rest of the board, and it was very helpful. Their response is on my last post.
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thanks, Cathy. I forwarded your comments to the rest of the board, and it was very helpful. Their response is on my last post.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Just one more comment about the board's letter to the members:

I hope that they got the HOA attorney's and the insurer's blessing on this. Regardless of previous conduct or precedent, if the HOA is maintaining property that actually belongs to individual owners, they're assuming liability that they probably should not be assuming. This will depend on what your governing documents and people's deeds have to say about who owns what and who is responsible for maintaining these things.

An example of liability: suppose a homeowner has a bad reaction to the products used in these areas, or claims that they did, and then sues the association. Now you've got lawyers and the insurer involved, and the HOA (ie. the homeowners) are potentially on the hook for large expenses on top of all the normal costs of running the HOA. Boards need to be aware of stuff like this even if there's a good chance that something like this won't happen. (Google "Roundup lawsuits" for what can happen even with widely used products.)
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
They ( HOA) lawn maintenance people had been removing overgrown weeds by hand, and then using small stones to prevent regrowth, but lack of care. Caused the weeds to regrow,Some of the residents had been spraying Round Up because it got so overgrown and no one was maintaining the area.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
One comment:

Never take just one board member to court.
It's difficult to pierce the corporate shield.

If one is going to take action, they would take action against the Association.

Main input, if considering legal action, is to take everything you have and talk to an attorney. One versed in contract law would be a good suggestion in this case - as the issue is over the terms of the contract (the covenants).

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here