No access to Condo shut-off valves

Started by RichardM27 • 8 replies • 268 views

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RichardM27 (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Hello:
I have a concern and hopefully you will be able to give me your opinions. I have lived in a large condo complex in California for several years. Two issues: a) There is only one shutoff valve for 6 condo units; b) and this valve is located in a business on the ground floor and is locked during off-business hours. Furthermore, even during business open hours residents do not have access to this valve without authorization of the HOE (ie. plumber). This is so all the other 5 condos on this shutoff line can have 24 hours notice that their water will be shut-off for a period of time for the repair. So you can imagine the potential for serious damages should a water emergency occur in any one of our 6 condos.
SIDEBAR:
About a month ago single handed faucet cartridge failed in one of the 6 condos on this water line. This means the hot water is now mixing with the cold water in all 6 units. Management as a solution has told the residents of all 6 units that they need to change out EVERY cartridge in all faucets in their unit that is more than 2 years old. As you can imagine this is going to be quite costly. I think management's position is short-sighted and unfair. What do you think? Thank you.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardM27 on 08/31/2023 8:05 AM
Management as a solution has told the residents of all 6 units that they need to change out EVERY cartridge in all faucets in their unit that is more than 2 years old. As you can imagine this is going to be quite costly. I think management's position is short-sighted and unfair. What do you think? Thank you.

By management, you mean the all-volunteer condo association board.

The board likely has the right to order this, due to insurance concerns.

California condo associations (among others) are struggling mighty with huge increases in insurance premiums. This also might be driving the decision-making here.

Many condo associations are stuck with the arrangement (one shut-off valve for multiple units) that you describe. This is because the accessible piping is not set up to allow installation of a shut-off valve for each unit. To re-plumb means going into the walls and re-directing piping as well as installing shut-off valves.

I lived in a condo association where exactly one shutoff valve served around 12 units. It was horrible.

This is the price of condo living.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What Ellen said.

Ivreqlize the prospect of an expensive repair to stop the hot and cold water mixing isn't pleasant, but how else do you expect the problem to be resolved?

Did you ask for details on how long the work will take and how m7ch it'll cost per homeowner? Do you know if the board got several opinions and estimates (at least 3) for the work? Those would be questions I'd ask, but to say this is "unfair" doesn't mean anything on its face and sounds a little like whining? And why do you think this is short sighted?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our 200+ unit multi story condo bldg. is similar. Each unit has shut-off valves for the toilets, sinks & washing machine at each fixture in the unit. If one of those does not operate, we have hut-off valves in the ceiling that shut-off more than one fixture. If THAT fails, the main valve in the common area hall ceiling that serves 5 condos would need to be shut off by our bldg. engineer or a plumber. We residents, for obvious reasons, may not access them.

I have no idea, but think this is typical of multi-story buildings. In 18+ years in my Unit, we've never had a problem with the main valve being needed in an emergency. The main valve is shut off for system-wide maintenance and repair work, flushing, for instance, of course. We're give notice & the water's off of a few hours to perhaps 8 hours. This has never been horrible or difficult for me or neighbors in the building.

Your "crossover" problem--after so many years in your building is unfortunate. But in our HOA, owners are responsible for replacing any of the mixit valves or cartridges. As a longtime Board membe in my HOAr, owners frequently submit receipts to the Board and want reimbursement for these items. And the answer is no and always has been. while the problem may have been created by some source outside of the owners's unit, the owner still is obliged to replace such items that serve solely them.

I believe, but do not know, that this is common in condo buildings

This forum seems to have only 2-3 condo board members and they may or may not reply. I'd expect to hear from Cathy, maybe?

If your board has entered into a contract with a firm to do this work, it probably would have been decided in an open meeting of the Board. If there is a contract and you want more details about the upcoming work, request it in writing from your management company.

MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardM27 on 08/31/2023 8:05 AM
Hello:
I have a concern and hopefully you will be able to give me your opinions. I have lived in a large condo complex in California for several years. Two issues: a) There is only one shutoff valve for 6 condo units; b) and this valve is located in a business on the ground floor and is locked during off-business hours. Furthermore, even during business open hours residents do not have access to this valve without authorization of the HOE (ie. plumber). This is so all the other 5 condos on this shutoff line can have 24 hours notice that their water will be shut-off for a period of time for the repair. So you can imagine the potential for serious damages should a water emergency occur in any one of our 6 condos.
SIDEBAR:
About a month ago single handed faucet cartridge failed in one of the 6 condos on this water line. This means the hot water is now mixing with the cold water in all 6 units. Management as a solution has told the residents of all 6 units that they need to change out EVERY cartridge in all faucets in their unit that is more than 2 years old. As you can imagine this is going to be quite costly. I think management's position is short-sighted and unfair. What do you think? Thank you.

I would definitely get clarification regarding changing out cartridges in "all faucets". There is no Crossover effect when you have two spigots per faucet. Most likely you would need to change out the cartridge in single handle shower and perhaps the kitchen faucet if it is single handle. The HOA wants to control when the shutoff valve is turned off to all units. This is understandable. In an emergency though, I would bet the HOA has another way besides calling the business owner to shut off the water to all the units.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Mark knows more about these things than I do, and I suspect he's right: not all cartridges need to be replaced. That's why I advised you read the contract.

He's also correct, I'm sure, that there IS a way that a skilled person can turn off that main valve in an emergency that IS known to the right staff.

JoeN6 (Virginia)
Posts: 94

Posted:

My limited plumbing knowledge :

It sounds like there is one H20 heater for multiple units , and , there is a pump that recirculates the hot H20 through a supply pipe through all units then back to the water heater , in order to maintain a set temperature at all times at each faucet , rather than the user , farthest away turns I. The how water and waits and waits for the cold water already in the hot water supply pipe which has cooled somewhat to get hot . Kind of saves water , especially where there are a lot folks drawing water from the resivor. Did the op say California? That might be code in multi family there . We don’t have that here in Virginia . At least not in out constructed condos in 1974 . When a cartridge fails the cold water pressure starts mixing with the hot water , at that faucet . A fast solution is to turn off the cold water shut off valve at that faucet . Say the lavatory faucet cartridge fails simply inside below the lavatory there might be a shut off valve , when the cold water exits the wall. If there is one . Of course , when the hot water starts to chill there’s may be no way of telling which faucet is the offender .
It’s probably fair to mandate a periododic cartridge replacement , if two years is too frequent, perhaps when one is discovered that fails the water is shut off ONE time to all units and all are replaced . . Perhaps there might be a warrenty period and when that expires there a Maintenace activity that changes them all . Do they have to be all single lever faucets and shower valves? It’s probably a fair requirement.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

That is easy to fix. There are Youtube videos. Cartridge is $25. and tool is $15.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

The OP says he's in a "large condo complex," so I don't know if he means. large bulging? Or in an HOA with a bunch of small multi-dwelling buildings. Anyway, my building has about 100 units in 25 floors. We all are served by a giant "water heater" or boiler on the roof. There's no separate water heater on each floor.

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