"Informational Town Hall"

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

This is bizarre. In May we had the "Annual Open Meeting" with notice and agenda (all board items, no member items). They used to have their "elections" at an annual member meeting but they were all illegal. We now have legal elections all conducted by mail except for the ballot count which was held in June.

Today board's lawyer sent me the minutes that have lots of errors in them. Nowhere on the original notice did it say "member" meeting. Yet, the minutes say because a member quorum was not reached, "an informational town hall was held in lieu of an annual meeting." Well I don't think that is a category in the Davis-Stirling Act. By any observation, it was a board meeting, noticed, agenda, agenda items are board business, roll call of board members - all present - motion to adjourn by board members. It seems by calling it a town hall, they think they can circumvent Open Meeting Act requirements.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Was there a quorum at that meeting? Yes or no?

If not, it would seem the board decided to have a general discussion about association issues with no formal vote on anything. When my community didn't make quorum last year, that's what we did, as the board had invited the reserve specialist to make a presentation on the updated study. Then we left.

So what's your beef? Did you ask the attorney to clarify what you saw in the letter? If not, why not? If you're considering going back to small claims court or whatever, have at it and good luck.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 08/30/2023 12:56 PM
Was there a quorum at that meeting? Yes or no?

If not, it would seem the board decided to have a general discussion about association issues with no formal vote on anything. When my community didn't make quorum last year, that's what we did, as the board had invited the reserve specialist to make a presentation on the updated study. Then we left.

So what's your beef? Did you ask the attorney to clarify what you saw in the letter? If not, why not? If you're considering going back to small claims court or whatever, have at it and good luck.

All 5 directors present by roll call. There were 9 board items of business on the agenda.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Then which is it- an annual meeting, which usually feature board elections or a regular board meeting? A quorum for a regular board meeting applies to the board members, not the members, who can choose if they want to attend or not. Same goes for an annual meeting and you already know if you don't the required number or percentage of owners there, you can't have an annual meeting.

Did everyone receive notice of this meeting? If you were there, but there were no formal motions or votes (because you didn't have quorum for the annual to be held anyway), I don't see how this is an end run around the rules. Once again, what is your beef?

Granted it would have been easier to say "not enough people showed up for the annual, so we just sat around and talked." Are you nitpicking over the words meeting vs. town hall????

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 08/30/2023 2:42 PM
Then which is it- an annual meeting, which usually feature board elections or a regular board meeting? A quorum for a regular board meeting applies to the board members, not the members, who can choose if they want to attend or not. Same goes for an annual meeting and you already know if you don't the required number or percentage of owners there, you can't have an annual meeting.

Did everyone receive notice of this meeting? If you were there, but there were no formal motions or votes (because you didn't have quorum for the annual to be held anyway), I don't see how this is an end run around the rules. Once again, what is your beef?

Granted it would have been easier to say "not enough people showed up for the annual, so we just sat around and talked." Are you nitpicking over the words meeting vs. town hall????

It was a board meeting. There was notice. The notice said "open annual meeting." There was an agenda posted with the notice - all board items of business. They spent 30 minutes on 5 items not on the agenda all to personally attack me. Do not expect our board to act like a normal board.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Which (CA) "open meeting requirements" did they NOT meet? If they actually did meet all requirements, what's the fuss?

Who writes the notice & agenda? Apparently that person has no idea what meetings are called in CA HOAs. There are no meetings in CA HOAs called an "Annual Open Meeting." That phrase has no meaning in Calif. HOAs. Are you sure that's what the notice & agenda said? If it really was a board meeting, what is the title of the meeting type in the draft minutes?

If motions and votes were taken & made, and are incorrect in the draft minutes, as an Owner, correct them at the next board meeting's open forum, when they'll be approved. As you know, discussions aren't part of meeting minutes. Were motions made and votes taken?

With Shelia, it sounds like this was a simple Town Hall or informational meeting since there was no quorum of "members," even tho the meeting was mistitled. These aren't covered by the Act, but are not illegal because the CA HOA attorneys at D-S.com mention them.

All in all, it sounds like directors' or a manager's ignorance about the names of meetings, reigns in your HOA, but did the meeting, or do the minutes, trample on the rights of Owners in our state? I don't recall. Do you have a PM?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I hadn't seen your most recent post, Terri. Did the Board make any motions & votes re: the attacks on you? If not, no need to be in the minutes.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/30/2023 2:59 PM
I hadn't seen your most recent post, Terri. Did the Board make any motions & votes re: the attacks on you? If not, no need to be in the minutes.

No motion or vote re attacks on me. Just inviting members to order copies of legal invoices.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

CA Civ Code 4090. "Board Meeting" Defined. (a) A congregation, at the same time and place, of a sufficient number of directors to establish a quorum of the board, to hear, discuss, or deliberate upon any item of business that is within the authority of the board."

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

I seriously doubt that our board knows the difference between a board meeting and a member meeting.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/30/2023 2:59 PM
I hadn't seen your most recent post, Terri. Did the Board make any motions & votes re: the attacks on you? If not, no need to be in the minutes.

Kerry, can you tell me what a "Civic Fee" is? Context is legal invoice "research regarding increasing the Civic Fee and draft correspondence to board member," thank you

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

CA Civ Code 4090. "Board Meeting" Defined. (a) A congregation, at the same time and place, of a sufficient number of directors to establish a quorum of the board, to hear, discuss, or deliberate upon any item of business that is within the authority of the board," has been etched on my brain for years.

Please reply to my questions above: Who writes the notice & agenda?? Do you have a PM? Who writes the minutes? WHAT is the title of the meet in th draft minutes?

Did the meeting, or do the minutes, trample on the rights of Owners in our state?

Is your only "beef," as Shelia puts it, that the title of the meeting was wrong?

I've never heard of a "Civic Fee" so google it, I guess. What does it have to do with the Maa mtg.?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

CA Civ Code 4090. "Board Meeting" Defined. (a) A congregation, at the same time and place, of a sufficient number of directors to establish a quorum of the board, to hear, discuss, or deliberate upon any item of business that is within the authority of the board," has been etched on my brain for years.

Please reply to my questions above: Who writes the notice & agenda?? Do you have a PM? Who writes the minutes? WHAT is the title of the meet in th draft minutes?

Did the meeting, or do the minutes, trample on the rights of Owners in our state?

Is your only "beef," as Shelia puts it, that the title of the meeting was wrong?

I've never heard of a "Civic Fee" so google it, I guess. What does it have to do with the Maa mtg.?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/30/2023 4:09 PM
CA Civ Code 4090. "Board Meeting" Defined. (a) A congregation, at the same time and place, of a sufficient number of directors to establish a quorum of the board, to hear, discuss, or deliberate upon any item of business that is within the authority of the board," has been etched on my brain for years.

Please reply to my questions above: Who writes the notice & agenda?? Do you have a PM? Who writes the minutes? WHAT is the title of the meet in th draft minutes?

Did the meeting, or do the minutes, trample on the rights of Owners in our state?

Is your only "beef," as Shelia puts it, that the title of the meeting was wrong?

I've never heard of a "Civic Fee" so google it, I guess. What does it have to do with the Maa mtg.?

One of the board members writes the notice and agenda. No PM. Presume secretary writes minutes, don't know.
Title of draft minutes "Informational Town Hall Minutes" (no mention of informational town hall on legal notice)
Trample on rights? Discussion of 5 items not on agenda comprising a personal attack on me. Not sure what you mean.
Not a beef, more of a comment that board is trying to change the nature of the meeting in preparation for trial next week.
Thank you. Civic fee was on legal invoice and I've been trying to find out what it means.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

How will your Board, by using the wrong titles for the meeting notice and the draft meeting minutes, be a part of your trial?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/30/2023 6:49 PM
How will your Board, by using the wrong titles for the meeting notice and the draft meeting minutes, be a part of your trial?

That is the question! Why would they think changing it would give them an advantage?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

TerriS6, what proof do you personally have of what was actually discussed at this May meeting?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 08/30/2023 7:53 PM
TerriS6, what proof do you personally have of what was actually discussed at this May meeting?

I have recording of the broadcast.
As of yesterday, I have the draft minutes which include all the off-agenda subjects discussed...their brilliance astounds me. Lots of errors in the minutes. For example, I stated what one of the directors said was "disingenuous." In the minutes, it came out "ingenious." Then it says the judge ordered the board to revert to 2021 assessment amount - a complete fabrication.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Very strange - the board even had their attorney review and recommend modifications to the annual meeting agenda and notice prior to posting. $225.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Board's attorney sent me 54 pages; a letter, notice & agenda for May meeting, draft minutes of May meeting and legal invoices.
Letter says he's mailing all pages also to ALL the members.
These documents contain my personal information, name, address, phone #, email address, which is illegal to share with any 3rd party without my permission. Also I opted out of sharing my personal info with members earlier this year.
I filed a Request for Order and answer to order board not to share my personal information but it's probably too late this time. And I'm sending a Bar complaint for their attorney.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 4:05 AM

I have recording of the [May meeting] broadcast.

Great.

After the meeting, I do not care what the Board and the HOA attorney are calling this meeting. Proper notice, including correctly listing agenda topics, has a specific purpose. People decide to attend or not based on what is on the agenda. If the board followed the agenda as given in the original, actual notice; the recording supports that this was a board meeting; and then before adjourning the board went off-topic, then this is what you present to the judge.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 8:42 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 4:05 AM

I have recording of the [May meeting] broadcast.

Great.

After the meeting, I do not care what the Board and the HOA attorney are calling this meeting. Proper notice, including correctly listing agenda topics, has a specific purpose. People decide to attend or not based on what is on the agenda. If the board followed the agenda as given in the original, actual notice; the recording supports that this was a board meeting; and then before adjourning the board went off-topic, then this is what you present to the judge.

Thanks. They handed it to me on a silver platter with the draft minutes. Almost 4 single-spaced pages of off-topic discussion prior to adjournment.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 10:23 AM

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 8:42 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 4:05 AM

I have recording of the [May meeting] broadcast.

Great.

After the meeting, I do not care what the Board and the HOA attorney are calling this meeting. Proper notice, including correctly listing agenda topics, has a specific purpose. People decide to attend or not based on what is on the agenda. If the board followed the agenda as given in the original, actual notice; the recording supports that this was a board meeting; and then before adjourning the board went off-topic, then this is what you present to the judge.

Thanks. They handed it to me on a silver platter with the draft minutes. Almost 4 single-spaced pages of off-topic discussion prior to adjournment.

" ... and, Your Honor, even if this was an owners' meeting (not a board meeting), the notice requirements for an owners' meeting also prohibit this off-topic discussion. Respectfully, I ask this court to remind this Board that, had proper notice been given, other owners might have attended and discussed this "topic" at more length, presenting another viewpoint."

[Have citations to the statute handy.]

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 11:05 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 10:23 AM

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 8:42 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 4:05 AM

I have recording of the [May meeting] broadcast.

Great.

After the meeting, I do not care what the Board and the HOA attorney are calling this meeting. Proper notice, including correctly listing agenda topics, has a specific purpose. People decide to attend or not based on what is on the agenda. If the board followed the agenda as given in the original, actual notice; the recording supports that this was a board meeting; and then before adjourning the board went off-topic, then this is what you present to the judge.

Thanks. They handed it to me on a silver platter with the draft minutes. Almost 4 single-spaced pages of off-topic discussion prior to adjournment.

" ... and, Your Honor, even if this was an owners' meeting (not a board meeting), the notice requirements for an owners' meeting also prohibit this off-topic discussion. Respectfully, I ask this court to remind this Board that, had proper notice been given, other owners might have attended and discussed this "topic" at more length, presenting another viewpoint."

[Have citations to the statute handy.]

Good points, thank you. Since all the off-topics had one theme - to attack me - if I had actually done something wrong, the matter would/should have been discussed in a confidential executive session. Instead I was disciplined before members for doing nothing wrong.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 12:17 PM

Good points, thank you. Since all the off-topics had one theme - to attack me - if I had actually done something wrong, the matter would/should have been discussed in a confidential executive session. Instead I was disciplined before members for doing nothing wrong.

I do not see anything to support a claim that the attacks on you denote "discipline" as described in the D-S statute. It was harassment, but not of a flavor to which one could object IMO, except for the topic having nothing to do with legitimate board business and so having no place on any proper agenda.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 1:15 PM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 12:17 PM

Good points, thank you. Since all the off-topics had one theme - to attack me - if I had actually done something wrong, the matter would/should have been discussed in a confidential executive session. Instead I was disciplined before members for doing nothing wrong.

I do not see anything to support a claim that the attacks on you denote "discipline" as described in the D-S statute. It was harassment, but not of a flavor to which one could object IMO, except for the topic having nothing to do with legitimate board business and so having no place on any proper agenda.

It feels like discipline. The board is behaving as if I've done something wrong. I have never violated the CC&Rs nor have I ever been late paying assessments.
I would consider the board's actions to be civil harassment. The mailer came today so it surely has gone to everyone.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next and have consulted with a favorite attorney who is a part-time small claims judge. Hopefully, he'll have some brilliant advice.
Our board chairman has been harassing us for 5 years now, long before any legal action occurred.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 12:17 PM

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 11:05 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 10:23 AM

Posted By ElleN on 08/31/2023 8:42 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/31/2023 4:05 AM

I have recording of the [May meeting] broadcast.

Great.

After the meeting, I do not care what the Board and the HOA attorney are calling this meeting. Proper notice, including correctly listing agenda topics, has a specific purpose. People decide to attend or not based on what is on the agenda. If the board followed the agenda as given in the original, actual notice; the recording supports that this was a board meeting; and then before adjourning the board went off-topic, then this is what you present to the judge.

Thanks. They handed it to me on a silver platter with the draft minutes. Almost 4 single-spaced pages of off-topic discussion prior to adjournment.

" ... and, Your Honor, even if this was an owners' meeting (not a board meeting), the notice requirements for an owners' meeting also prohibit this off-topic discussion. Respectfully, I ask this court to remind this Board that, had proper notice been given, other owners might have attended and discussed this "topic" at more length, presenting another viewpoint."

[Have citations to the statute handy.]

Good points, thank you. Since all the off-topics had one theme - to attack me - if I had actually done something wrong, the matter would/should have been discussed in a confidential executive session. Instead I was disciplined before members for doing nothing wrong.

Feeling a bit paranoid are we? If you cannot handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

I've done nothing to warrant the heat.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Funny John should say stay out of the kitchen. The chairman 5 years ago tried to block my cottage food permit - nothing in governing docs against it. He lost.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why is it the more that Terri talks we discover the real reason her HOA hates her so? Victim/Martyr/Hero? No one voted Terri to be their hero and that makes them think the whole world is against them...

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/31/2023 4:44 PM
Why is it the more that Terri talks we discover the real reason her HOA hates her so? Victim/Martyr/Hero? No one voted Terri to be their hero and that makes them think the whole world is against them...

I would expect nothing less from a member-hater.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

When your not voted as your HOA's hero, it kind of gets to you when they do anything and everything without you? I can't imagine how playing "victim" get you brownie points with anyone.

Gee I can't understand why the HOA doesn't like me as you look at your receipts for your lawyer... Get a clue yet?

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I might not be the only one, Terri. Will you please specify what complaints you're making to the judge? Can you avoid repeating things that won't matter to the judge, for example, misused or misspelled word? These are not within motions just yakity-yak that shouldn't be in minutes.

Are they solely complaining that(1) items were discussed that were not on the May agenda, as shown in he draft minutes ? (2) And that (you think!) your personal contact info will be sent to all owners in your HOA even though you opted out in writing from sharing this info?

Is it possible that the griping about you that was done by the Board and a director's spouse was during open forum at the May meeting?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/31/2023 6:59 PM
I might not be the only one, Terri. Will you please specify what complaints you're making to the judge? Can you avoid repeating things that won't matter to the judge, for example, misused or misspelled word? These are not within motions just yakity-yak that shouldn't be in minutes.

Are they solely complaining that(1) items were discussed that were not on the May agenda, as shown in he draft minutes ? (2) And that (you think!) your personal contact info will be sent to all owners in your HOA even though you opted out in writing from sharing this info?

Is it possible that the griping about you that was done by the Board and a director's spouse was during open forum at the May meeting?

I will report the results.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/31/2023 6:59 PM
I might not be the only one, Terri. Will you please specify what complaints you're making to the judge? Can you avoid repeating things that won't matter to the judge, for example, misused or misspelled word? These are not within motions just yakity-yak that shouldn't be in minutes.

Are they solely complaining that(1) items were discussed that were not on the May agenda, as shown in he draft minutes ? (2) And that (you think!) your personal contact info will be sent to all owners in your HOA even though you opted out in writing from sharing this info?

Is it possible that the griping about you that was done by the Board and a director's spouse was during open forum at the May meeting?

I'm sorry, Kerry.
Of course I would not mention irrelevant things like the misused word. I just thought it was humorous.
Complaints are discussion of 5 topics not on the agenda and 3 unreasonable denial of records. If the 5 topics were not used as a personal attack on me for 30 minutes, there would be no claim.
My personal information was sent to 66 members this week, months after I opted out per 5230. 5220 also applies.
The 5 topics were discussed after agenda item 8 ended and before agenda item 9 began.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Hate to tell you but your name and address isn't necessarily "private" information that can't be shared. Basically the only information you may opt out of is email address and maybe phone #.

Does anyone else find the irony of those people who demand access to other people's information but when it comes to their own being allowed to be released they have the "Victim" response?

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/01/2023 4:44 AM
Hate to tell you but your name and address isn't necessarily "private" information that can't be shared. Basically the only information you may opt out of is email address and maybe phone #.

Does anyone else find the irony of those people who demand access to other people's information but when it comes to their own being allowed to be released they have the "Victim" response?

It's the law in California.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

So they followed the law and that means they being mean to you?

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/01/2023 6:07 AM
So they followed the law and that means they being mean to you?

No they did not follow the law. They rarely do.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/31/2023 4:44 PM
Why is it the more that Terri talks we discover the real reason her HOA hates her so?

There is no "we" to this.

That you think it is okay to violate California law is disgusting.

TerriS6, my standing offer on Melissa's posts: The instant Melissa says anything obviously false or harassing, I will pay the OP $10 to ignore her.

The board's going off-topic for 30 minutes was clear retaliation (which of course simultaneously is harassment). This conduct by the board violates Ca Civil Code 4930 and possibly other sections. Now this board misconductM/i> is costing owners a lot of money.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 09/01/2023 6:53 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/31/2023 4:44 PM
Why is it the more that Terri talks we discover the real reason her HOA hates her so?

There is no "we" to this.

That you think it is okay to violate California law is disgusting.

TerriS6, my standing offer on Melissa's posts: The instant Melissa says anything obviously false or harassing, I will pay the OP $10 to ignore her.

The board's going off-topic for 30 minutes was clear retaliation (which of course simultaneously is harassment). This conduct by the board violates Ca Civil Code 4930 and possibly other sections. Now this board misconductM/i> is costing owners a lot of money.

In reviewing the legal invoices, the attorney reviewed both my letters to the board advising them why the assessments and liens were illegal. He charged $1,485. the first time and $1,303. the second time. First of all, the board didn't need to consult the attorney; it only needed to read the procedures and ask are we doing this or not? Second, since they did consult the attorney, he should have advised the board the procedures they should be following. Instead, both times the attorney wrote me a letter saying everything they did was not illegal. Then came lawsuit and order against the board. All could have been avoided.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am sorry I do not support "victims" of their HOA. I support ones who work hard and gets on their boards...

Former HOA President

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 09/01/2023 7:04 AM

In reviewing the legal invoices, the attorney reviewed both my letters to the board advising them why the assessments and liens were illegal. He charged $1,485. the first time and $1,303. the second time. First of all, the board didn't need to consult the attorney; it only needed to read the procedures and ask are we doing this or not?Respectfully, the decision to consult the attorney is the board's and the board's alone to make. The only way to stop the board from consulting the HOA attorney when an answer seems obvious to you is to elect people who feel as you do.
Posted By TerriS6 on 09/01/2023 7:04 AM
Second, since they did consult the attorney, he should have advised the board the procedures they should be following. Instead, both times the attorney wrote me a letter saying everything they did was not illegal. Then came lawsuit and order against the board. All could have been avoided.

Again, except to replace the current board, you have no power over which attorney the board uses and which advice of the attorney the board chooses to accept.

I understand how people want to vent about how inept their HOA board is. But I would hope people realize that venting is not constructive action to resolve the problem. For the above two problems, I believe the only constructive solution is replacing the board.

If the other owners do not want to replace the board, then I think one needs to consider the nuclear options: Put up with the abuses or move.

AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 08/30/2023 11:09 AM
This is bizarre. In May we had the "Annual Open Meeting" with notice and agenda (all board items, no member items). They used to have their "elections" at an annual member meeting but they were all illegal. We now have legal elections all conducted by mail except for the ballot count which was held in June.

Today board's lawyer sent me the minutes that have lots of errors in them. Nowhere on the original notice did it say "member" meeting. Yet, the minutes say because a member quorum was not reached, "an informational town hall was held in lieu of an annual meeting." Well I don't think that is a category in the Davis-Stirling Act. By any observation, it was a board meeting, noticed, agenda, agenda items are board business, roll call of board members - all present - motion to adjourn by board members. It seems by calling it a town hall, they think they can circumvent Open Meeting Act requirements.

An annual meeting is NOT a Board meeting. The only quorum requirement for an annual meeting is the number of members present, either in person, by proxy, or by ballot, NOT the number of directors. The annual meeting is presided over by the president, not the board. The meeting, lacking quorum, can be adjourned, where the Members can have an informal town hall meeting, where NO notice is required.

AidylP1 (California)
Posts: 173

Posted:

I have no respect for anyone who constantly complains about how terrible a job a volunteer Board does, yet is unwilling to pick up the mantle and become part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. This is precisely why volunteers want nothing to do with Board service.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AidylP1 on 09/14/2023 12:41 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/30/2023 11:09 AM
This is bizarre. In May we had the "Annual Open Meeting" with notice and agenda (all board items, no member items). They used to have their "elections" at an annual member meeting but they were all illegal. We now have legal elections all conducted by mail except for the ballot count which was held in June.

Today board's lawyer sent me the minutes that have lots of errors in them. Nowhere on the original notice did it say "member" meeting. Yet, the minutes say because a member quorum was not reached, "an informational town hall was held in lieu of an annual meeting." Well I don't think that is a category in the Davis-Stirling Act. By any observation, it was a board meeting, noticed, agenda, agenda items are board business, roll call of board members - all present - motion to adjourn by board members. It seems by calling it a town hall, they think they can circumvent Open Meeting Act requirements.

An annual meeting is NOT a Board meeting. The only quorum requirement for an annual meeting is the number of members present, either in person, by proxy, or by ballot, NOT the number of directors. The annual meeting is presided over by the president, not the board. The meeting, lacking quorum, can be adjourned, where the Members can have an informal town hall meeting, where NO notice is required.

This was a legal board meeting per 4090(a). Our board does not understand the difference between a board meeting and a member meeting.
People shouldn't use the word "volunteer" as an excuse for incompetence; it gives volunteers a bad name.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well then you should take them to small claims court to make that right then... Since that seems to be your only answer than volunteering...

Former HOA President