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LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
I’m the president of a 24-unit condo complex in California. My new dryer stopped drying, so I called an air duct cleaning company out to clear duct. They discovered that the duct was disconnected, no air coming out the outside vent. When they suctioned the duct from the back of the dryer, they pulled out insulation material and said that apparently all lint has been blowing between my unit and the unit above me, creating a potential fire hazard.

I advised HOA management. The HOA has paid for all dryer duct cleaning in the past, but they’re now suddenly saying it’s the individual unit’s responsibility, and are citing this clause of our CC&Rs:

Our Easements through the units and Common Area for all facilities for the furnishing of utility services, television cables, heating and air conditioning, if any, cables and lines, which facilities shall include but not be limited to conduits, ducts, plumbing and wiring, shall be appurtenant to each unit and all other units and the Common Area shall be subject thereto provided, however, that easements for such facilities shall at all times be and remain substantially in accordance with the
initial construction of the project, or the project as reconstructed on damage or destruction pursuant to the terms of this Declaration.

Need help to understand where I stand on this issue. It’s confusing. I have NO idea how or when the duct separated, and for me to have to incur the expense of opening up my living room ceiling to reconnect the duct inside the wall does not seem fair. Hoping someone can help me.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You need to look at the sections of your CC&Rs where they define Common Elements, Limited Common Elements, and Units. Then look for the section(s) where they talk about who is responsible for what.

As an example, my CC&Rs state that duct work and utility lines that serve a single unit are part of that unit (in fact, dryer vents are mentioned specifically). The section that addresses unit owner responsibility states that the unit owner maintains, repairs, and replaces all items that are part of the unit. So we owners are individually responsible for dealing with any issues with our dryer vents.

For your situation, this is probably going to depend on how your buildings are constructed. Individual units' dryers in my community are vented directly to the outside - there are no shared venting lines. If our buildings did have shared lines, then according to our CC&Rs they would be defined as common elements and thus association responsibility. We would also have to know where the dividing line is - where do the individually-owned ducts connect to the shared ones?

HOAs get this stuff wrong all the time. Either your community handled it incorrectly in the past, or they're trying to handle it incorrectly now. But the answers are in your CC&Rs - no need for anyone to guess at it or try to figure out what's "fair".
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You may need to read the rest of your CCRs - do they define this as a common, limited, or exclusive element? The bafflegab in most documents can be hard to understand but an exclusive element is something that is only available for the use of a specific unit, a limited element would be the responsibility of both the association and homeowner and the common area is the responsibility of the association. This is something you really need to discuss with your master insurance carrier and perhaps the association attorney because this is something that all of your neighbors should be aware.

But before you do, did the company say how the duct might have become disconnected? It may be someone did this, and the only reason I can think of is that a bird or other critter tried to set up shop once upon a time. Another contractor got rid of it, but forgot to reconnect the duct. You say your association used to pay for all air duct cleaning in the past - apparently, they got an interpretation from the association attorney or master insurance carrier that these things should be the homeowner's responsibility. Especially if the cleaning was getting expensive.

You don't say how long you've lived in your home, so start reading through old board meeting minutes to get the background - and it could take a while, depending on how old your association is. You might be able to narrow the timeline down by talking to longtime homeowners who may remember when the decision was made - why not talk to your board colleagues to see what they know? Sometimes HOAs do take care of items that people thought was the association's responsibility, find out otherwise, and then announce the coverage will end, when and why. There should be documentation to that effect notifying all homeowners.

If you can't get an answer this way, you'll have to consult your own attorney - and since may result in the association paying for this, you must abstain from any and all discussions the board may have on the matter, as well as voting (otherwise, it's a conflict of interest). Unfortunately, you may also need to prepare yourself for paying for this repair. because it's also possible the former owner was aware of all this, but didn't tell you. If you've been in your home for several years, it may be too late to go after him or her.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
I’ve read through the CC&R’s and there is no mention of dryer vents. HOA management relied on the language I quoted above and also said that “There is no specific directive within our association's responsibilities to address this issue.” So what to do?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This is the "show me where it says the association is responsible for X" vs. "no, YOU show me where is doesn't say that". HOA documents don't always address every detail of the association (otherwise no one would read them and homeowners barely do that as it is). This is basically a legal/insurance coverage issue, so you'll need to talk to the master insurance company and possibly the association attorney, as I noted before. And you STILL need to abstain from any discussion or vote the board may have on this matter since you're directly involved.

I still say you should start by reading the old board minutes to see if this has ever been discussed - if the association no longer does duct cleaning, that decision had to have been made and documented somewhere. Although it's possible the board just quit doing it and no one ever said anything until now. Find those longtime homeowners and talk to them as well - someone may remember something or even have the documentation you may need.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Thank you! I spoke with board members who were on the board before me who said the HOA always pays for duct cleaning of all units. HOA mgmt (same mgmt as before) is now, for whatever reason, stepping in to say they recommend that all units pay for their own cleaning and also the reconnection of ducts that may have separated inside the wall. Without guidance from the governing docs, it’s up to the board then, right? (yes, I’m recused)

Will see what the master policy’s ins company has to say as well.
LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Our dryer vents are not common. They run between the units.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm in a multi -story condo HOA too.

First, Laura, as board president you must remember that the manager does NOT make decisions about who pays for what.* Only a quorum of board members at a meeting votes to make such decisions. (This is why, I assume, that Shelia advised you to research old minutes.).

Second, the CC&R Article your mgr. cites mainly has one phrase that matters: "....ducts"... shall be appurtenant to each unit..." This usually means the dryer duct is yours to maintain because it's appurtenant or a connected part of your Unit. Your PM should know, tho', that other parts of the CC&Rs are more important.

Look at the Definitions Article near the front to see the definition of "Unit." It probably includes electric, plumbing, ducts etc. that solely serves your Unit are a part of your Unit.

Now, look at the Article about Maintenance. It will say Unit Owners' obligations and the HOA's obligations. As already pointed out, not every single item that terminates in your Unit and serves you only will be named. In my condo, for instance, loud speaker covers, fire alarm covers, ceiling sprinklers, dryer ducts, fireplace chimneys are not mentioned. Yet, since I'm the only one who uses them, I'm obligated to repair or replace them. In this CC&R Article there'll be broader categories like plumbing, drains, utilities, maybe ducts. (As you probably know there are other ducts in your walls aside from your dryer duct.)

You must read those sections. My guess is that Ownres are responsible for dryer duct cleaning, but earlier Boards voted to pay for this as they were concerned about fire or leak hazards. My guess is with the rise in so many expenses, perhaps your insurance will go up a lot for '24?, your PM is "advising" the board to have owners pay for dryer duct inspections going forward.

I'm confused however about your: "...apparently all lint has been blowing between my unit and the unit above me." Are you saying your dryer ducts are somehow connected? (which sounds horrible). And then: "Our dryer vents are not common. They run between the units."

Are they like ours? The individual duct runs from the dryer vent through the ceiling (or possibly wall) to a termination vent on the exterior of the building? It serves only your Unit. If so you're right, it probably will be very expensive to repair. Were you the owner when it was last cleaned??

The options I can think of: 1. If Your building is less than 10 years old and perhaps this duct "separation" is a construction defect. Your board would hire a construction defect attorney to seek reimbursement from the original contractor who installed the system. 2. Previous duct techs somehow damaged the duct and caused the separation. How to prove? Would require research and inquiry about all other condos to see if others have the problem.3. If you know of a few Units with this same problem, it may be worth hiring a contractor who is NOT in the business of repairing the ducts, to give your Board a professional assessment of the situation. My HOA did this re: a different dryer duct issue. You'd have to recuse yourself from that discussion & vote too.

Sorry I can't more optimistic...Yes, do speak with your insurance agent.

LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Thank you so much, Kerry, for all your very helpful input!!
Board mtg was last night. Will update soon!

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