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AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
We are a self managed 56 unit condo association in Wisconsin

We have an owner who has been sent notices to repair/stain her deck for the past 2 years.
This year we have send 2 notices stating the work was to be completed by July 30, 2023. No work has been done.
A phone call was made after the deadline was missed stating that she must contact the board and let us know when the work would be done.
She sent an e-mail asking us to remove the bushes around her deck. She stated the bushes were the cause of the deck warping, and the deck couldn't be painted because the bushes are in the way
She was sent a reply stating that all units have bushes/hedges around the decks for privacy and the painter can cover them and tie them up when painting. The reason a deck board warps is because it gets wet and different parts of it dry at different rates. That is why it’s important to seal the deck boards and rails to make them more waterproof and protect them against dirt and other damage. Our decks are 20 years old and must be maintained to prevent damage. Her deck railings need replacement and the entire deck needs staining.

She stated the contractor was coming out in the next few days to look at. After 10 days she was sent another e-mail asking why she hasn't responded with a date work will begin.
She has ignored this.

We do not have a fine for failure to complete needed repairs. We could amend our fine schedule and begin imposing a fine after 30 days, however what we want is to have the work done.
In our 20 years we have never had to fine anyone and never had a delinquency.
she was told if she did not have the work done, the board would hire someone to do the repairs and she would be assessed all costs.
Would we need a court order to do this, or can we proceed with the repairs. We would send a registered letter stating we are going to contract to have the work done.

I should mention she is a hoarder and it took us over 2 years to get access to her basement to have a water meter changed out. No one would have to go inside the unit for the deck repairs luckily, but she may refuse to let him on the site.
Our CCR's state that maintenance and repair for decks falls under obligation of the unit owners

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ann wrote: "...she was told if she did not have the work done, the board would hire someone to do the repairs and she would be assessed all costs." Our condo Multi-story HOA has balconies that owners are required to keep clean and painted, may not use for storage, etc.

Our CC&R permit the association to, with proper notice., etc., do the required work and bill the Owner an "enforcement assessment." If yours say something similar, follow the procedures and do it. Since, however, you've had issues with here in the past, you might want to touch base with your HOA attorney first to make sure you proceed absolutely correctly.

Meanwhile, it's not a bad idea to make rule about such matters with a schedule of fines..

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Your rules have to be consistent with your Declaration so if it doesn't say you can do the work and bill her, I think the members would have to vote on an amendment.
MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
AnnS12,

It seems that the Self Managed HOA has done a pretty good job with collections and your HOA has probably avoided having discussions with attorneys in general because of this. This is probably one issue that you probably should have a discussion with your attorney because you really want to make sure you get it right and form a policy. Balconies are typically limited common elements or Exclusive Use Common Elements and the HOA has an interest to making sure the repairs are done properly. You mentioned that the owner is responsible for maintenenace and repair in the CCR. You also indicated that the railings need replacement. That is different than "maintenance" and "repair". Replacement may require that the HOA pay as a common expense.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
To Mark’s point, check your reserve study to see if the reails’ replacement or even repair are on it.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our rules allow us to do this: If a person does NOT correct a violation, we have the authority to fix the violation ourselves and send the owner the bill. If the owner does NOT pay that bill, then we can file a lien for that bill.

It's not that easy to enforce but it's an option since we do not allow for fines. Fines do not have "teeth" behind them like a lien. Liens are typically for back dues ONLY. However, that caveat in the rules for pay back what they owe allows us to lien for money we pay out to correct violations.

We sent the owner a notice of 30 days to fix the issue. If they did not fix the issue in 30 days, the HOA would pay for the work. However, that means the HOA hires the contractor and the amount is what the HOA gets charged. The HOA is under NO obligation to hire the "cheapest" contractor or yours. It's the HOA's job now. Once completed, the HOA will send the owner the bill. Left unpaid for 30 days, then the HOA has the right to file a lien for that bill. Which will then make the bill and lien filing costs added. Interest and possible other legal fees could be added to that lien.

A lien does not release until they pay it off. They can not sell their home till it is paid for. Fines can not be the basis of liens in most states. (Although there is "fancy" bookkeeping that can be involved in some states. That is another story...). So fines really won't hold the owner to the ground. Just may make the situation worse.

So look at your rules. Quote them in your notice being sent to the owner. That way they can read it themselves. If they do not have a copy of the rules let them know where they can get a copy. Not having the documents is not an excuse. They are PUBLIC.

Good luck. There can be trespassing issues involved depending on the situation. So best to consult a lawyer to get the ins/out of how to proceed.

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Melissa, you are having too much fun.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Facts are facts. Our HOA had it written in the documents directly on how to fix a violation. Which gave us this power to fix and lien for the bill if we must. No lawsuits needed.

Our former HOA president who was a con-man tried to use this method to get himself money. I didn't fall for it. He wanted the HOA to issue out violation notices to those who needed paint jobs. Have the HOA pay him to do the paint jobs, and then have us collect from the owner. That way he had gotten paid for the job and the HOA had to deal with collecting. In his mind it was a "win-win". Reality was he wasn't licensed nor insured. Our HOA did not have the money to pay him for the job. Plus no money for filing the lien to collect. I forced him into getting licensed and insured. I never issued out a violation. Just sent the member a notice their house needed painting per the rules. Plus what we could do if not done. I would give them a list of possible contractors. Educate them on paint application options. Plus give them a list of approved colors.

Most people we addressed with painting issues agreed their house needed painted. So we never had to address it beyond giving them paint colors and contractor suggestions. Most of the time the issue came down to weather conditions. Too hot or too cold to paint. We have a small window which to work from when nit comes to painting per temperature fluctations.

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/20/2023 7:10 AM
Facts are facts. Our HOA had it written in the documents directly on how to fix a violation. Which gave us this power to fix and lien for the bill if we must. No lawsuits needed.

Our former HOA president who was a con-man tried to use this method to get himself money. I didn't fall for it. He wanted the HOA to issue out violation notices to those who needed paint jobs. Have the HOA pay him to do the paint jobs, and then have us collect from the owner. That way he had gotten paid for the job and the HOA had to deal with collecting. In his mind it was a "win-win". Reality was he wasn't licensed nor insured. Our HOA did not have the money to pay him for the job. Plus no money for filing the lien to collect. I forced him into getting licensed and insured. I never issued out a violation. Just sent the member a notice their house needed painting per the rules. Plus what we could do if not done. I would give them a list of possible contractors. Educate them on paint application options. Plus give them a list of approved colors.

Most people we addressed with painting issues agreed their house needed painted. So we never had to address it beyond giving them paint colors and contractor suggestions. Most of the time the issue came down to weather conditions. Too hot or too cold to paint. We have a small window which to work from when nit comes to painting per temperature fluctations.

Why didn't your HOA have any money?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Because it is a non profit... Spends as much as it collects. Sound familiar?

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/20/2023 8:16 AM
Because it is a non profit... Spends as much as it collects. Sound familiar?

No budget for recording liens?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That is an area should be built into the HOA's budget. Best estimate of collections expenses. We had 107 homeowners/members. Of that 107 90 were on time payers on average. When setting up the budget we would budget as if the collection rate was for 90 people. The 17 others effected that budget by their lack of dues contribution or collection status. That meant we had to factor in roughly 17 non-payers that the other 90 had to pay higher dues to cover.

Not fair now is it? That 90 members had to pay more to support the estimated 17 others. (17 was NOT a constant number it was worst case scenario #). We did our budget at worst case to average scenario levels. Any "extra" money we ever collected was based on the 17 others contributing dues back into the budget. That money was then used for repairs/projects/collections.

A successful IMO should only be collecting what it needs to spend out plus have a capital expenditure account for larger repairs if necessary. A lien or foreclosure is just to fill in the hole that is money owed. It is why it was important to those 90 owners we had the policy of 6 months lien and 1 year CONSIDER foreclosure. It lessened the time burden and use of their money to cover collections.

Former HOA President
AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
decks are not on reserve study which was done last year. Since they are the owners obligation they were not included in the study.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Ann. What's your thinking on the issue now?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Since Ann mentioned that the owner is a hoarder, here is a blog post from several years ago dealing with the issue of hoarding:

Hoarding and Hoarders Must Be Handled with Care

Long story short, hoarding is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) as a disorder, so Fair Housing issues can be in play. An association can run into similar issues when dealing with an elderly resident who is having difficulties managing their home (eg. leaving the stove on). If we were facing a similar siutation, we'd run it past our attorney first to make sure we were complying with the law.
AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
The board wants to send a certified letter stating she has 30 days to complete repairs. We have board meeting next week and will discuss. I think we need to get an attorney involved. This will be a hard sell as we are over budget this year already. we are aware that her hoarding is a disability. We had an issue with her last year when she was piling cardboard in her garage and then parking her car on it. We were afraid it would start a fire. We finally added a rule stating all garbage must be put in bins and instituted a fine for non compliance. That forced her to clean it up. We might go that route again and institute a fine for failure to correct violation.
Since we've never had to deal with fines or even late payment of dues this is all new to us. We aren't looking to collect fines, we just want to have the work done
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is a hard call. The HOA is responsible for outside appearances. That is why there are rules for signs, shades, or paint colors etc ... However hard to enforce when it is not HOA property.Canthe HOA enforces?

Former HOA President
JulieH4
Posts: 75
Posted:
Hi Ann,

We have a similar issue. I spoke with our attorney and he sent me a document to change to have it talk about the persons storage that is not allowed. I sent it certified mail with return receipt.

We do not have a fine policy either and because of this person and one other, our attorney is making one for these situations. I definitely support a policy for fines.

We gave the owner 30 days to come into compliance and if it is not taken care of, the Board is going to let the attorney handle it. I suggested we have the work done and have a bill sent but the Board does not think it will get paid so we are going with the attorney.

If you have an attorney, I would definitely ask for their opinion.

Good luck!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Julie's note that their attorney is helping with a fine schedule makes a lot of sense, Ann. I don't know about Wisc., but in CA there are statutes that must be adhered to re: notification, due process, hearings, etc.
AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
  Wisconsin condo law states: Liability for unit owner violation. A unit owner who commits a violation is liable for any charges, fines, or assessments imposed by the association pursuant to the bylaws or association rules as a result of the violation and may be subject to a temporary or permanent injunction.

I think if we amend our rules and regulations and add a fine to our fine schedule for failure to complete repairs cited on violation notice that the owner will get the work done.
We have worked with other owners to give them plenty of time to have the repairs done.
If that doesn't work we will have to have attorney advise. All of our dues are collected by automatic withdrawal. since we've neve fined anyone I'm not sure how the fine would be collected.

our fine schedule includes the following statements.
When a violation is not corrected within the specified time limit, fines will be assessed according to the fine schedule. If a violation is not corrected, subsequent citations may be issued and the fine may be doubled compared to the previous Violation Notice. If necessary, the Association shall get a court order to correct the violation and effect corrections required. The owner’s property shall be assessed for all costs involved. This will include, but is not limited to the costs to correct the violation, fines, fees, attorney fees and court costs. Failure to pay assessments may result in a lien being placed on the unit

The fine schedule may be modified from time to time at the board’s discretion
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ah, now I see why you originally asked about a court order. I thought it was overkill, since many CC&Rs in various states permit associations to make the repairs and bill the the Owners (with hearing, etc. along the way). But I see that your documents require it.

Your idea to make a fine schedule first to see if that gets her attention looks sound to me.
AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
thank you for taking the time to comment about this. I'm probably the only person who has ever read our bylaws and CCRs.
We've spent the last 4 years correcting all the legal errors previous boards made. If were going to do something we want to do it right the first time.

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