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TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I'm writing again about the easement that board wrongly granted to adjacent non-member property owner without the required majority vote of the membership. If the easement is challenged by new owner when the property sells, is that a protection the association should normally get from one of these policies?

And

Do you think the easement was void at inception?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
As of this writing I am not convinced the change to the terms of the use of the road that occurred over two decades ago was an unlawful act by the board.

The covenant that you so far have said (in another thread) applies is this:

"The power to mortgage, encumber, or otherwise dispose of all property, real or personal, of the association will require a majority vote which excludes all votes of the Declarant or his successor in interest."

But the HOA does not own the land on which the road sits. Hence no "real property" is involved and yes, of course no personal property is involved. Hence it appears to me that this covenant does not apply, and no owners' vote is required to change the terms of the easement.

The board has all the powers except those reserved exclusively to the owners, with one caveat. The board can negotiate, on behalf of all owners, to alter the terms of other, non-members' use of the road, as long as its decision is "reasonable."

If the new, non-member land owner wants new terms on the easement, and the board refuses, yes the new non-member land owner can sue. Will the HOA's insurer pay for an attorney to defend the HOA? Maybe.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 08/10/2023 2:54 PM
As of this writing I am not convinced the change to the terms of the use of the road that occurred over two decades ago was an unlawful act by the board.

The covenant that you so far have said (in another thread) applies is this:

"The power to mortgage, encumber, or otherwise dispose of all property, real or personal, of the association will require a majority vote which excludes all votes of the Declarant or his successor in interest."

But the HOA does not own the land on which the road sits. Hence no "real property" is involved and yes, of course no personal property is involved. Hence it appears to me that this covenant does not apply, and no owners' vote is required to change the terms of the easement.

The board has all the powers except those reserved exclusively to the owners, with one caveat. The board can negotiate, on behalf of all owners, to alter the terms of other, non-members' use of the road, as long as its decision is "reasonable."

If the new, non-member land owner wants new terms on the easement, and the board refuses, yes the new non-member land owner can sue. Will the HOA's insurer pay for an attorney to defend the HOA? Maybe.

The real property is the unpaved road which is owned by the members. The board did not alter the terms; it created a grant of easement where none existed.
So you say maybe.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 3:02 PM
The real property is the unpaved road which is owned by the members.
You posted elsewhere that the road does not belong to the corporation. You also posted that the HOA members own the road in "undivided interests."

Do you maintain that the road belongs to "the association," and the association should be distinguished from the corporation?

Does the "association," as one entity, pay property taxes on the road?

I am back to asking: What documentation is there, if any, of who owns what land on which the road exists? What is the documentation, if any, of each HOA member having xyz undivided interest in the road?

Who owns the land on which the road sits? Multiple property owners (who are also HOA members)? The vineyard land owner (who long ago, forgot to grant(?) himself an easement and then sued to get this easement)?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 08/10/2023 3:21 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 3:02 PM
The real property is the unpaved road which is owned by the members.
You posted elsewhere that the road does not belong to the corporation. You also posted that the HOA members own the road in "undivided interests."

Do you maintain that the road belongs to "the association," and the association should be distinguished from the corporation?

Does the "association," as one entity, pay property taxes on the road?

I am back to asking: What documentation is there, if any, of who owns what land on which the road exists? What is the documentation, if any, of each HOA member having xyz undivided interest in the road?

Who owns the land on which the road sits? Multiple property owners (who are also HOA members)? The vineyard land owner (who long ago, forgot to grant(?) himself an easement and then sued to get this easement)?


The association is a corporation. All the roads are appurtenant to the separate interests. Property taxes are paid by owner of separate interest. Corporation pays no property tax. Roads are not tax parcels. Owner of the erroneous easement never owned the road to which it is attached. Original developer who eventually sold a parcel to vineyard owner forgot to create the easement. All common areas owned by all members as undivided interests.

It is now without question the easement was created improperly because the board is not the owner and the membership (the owner) is required to vote to grant any easement.

It seems this would qualify as an error that would give us members some insurance protection/leverage in case another developer comes along.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 3:37 PM
The association is a corporation. All the roads are appurtenant to the separate interests. Property taxes are paid by owner of separate interest. Corporation pays no property tax. Roads are not tax parcels. Owner of the erroneous easement never owned the road to which it is attached. Original developer who eventually sold a parcel to vineyard owner forgot to create the easement. All common areas owned by all members as undivided interests.

It is now without question the easement was created improperly because the board is not the owner and the membership (the owner) is required to vote to grant any easement.
I accept that this is a tenancy in common (meaning the road is held in undivided interests by a group of people). As far as ownership of the road is concerned, all the HOA members are, in the language of tenancy in common, "co-tenants." This group of people, either coincidentally or not coincidentally, also happens to be Thee Membership of the HOA.

Below I am sticking with this co-tenants situation and forgetting about the HOA for a bit. In other words, assume the covenant I quoted above does not apply.

What does the law say when some, but not all, of the co-tenants grant an easement to a third party (in this case, the vineyard owner, over 20 years ago)? As TerriS6 knows well:

From a California law firm:
one co-owner cannot give the neighbor an easement to access a part of the property without authorization from the other owners. Such grants are not enforceable against the other owners. See https://schorr-law.com/joint-owners-right-to-sell-or-encumber-real-property/

From an Oklahoma site:
"An interesting issue arising when one co-tenant grants an easement to a third party, such as a pipeline easement or access easement. Is the easement valid if less than all the co-tenants join in its creation? As a general rule, all co-tenants must join to grant a valid easement over an undivided co-tenancy. Cotenants ordinarily act for their own interests, not as agents for each other. However, a cotenant’s conveyance of an easement may be effective to burden the entire servient estate if it is proved that the other co-tenants consented to or subsequently ratified the transaction. The interest of the other co-tenants may become burdened by the easement through the easement claimant’s subsequent, adverse use of the servient estate under the terms of the grant."

This Texas web site says that the non-consenting co-tenants in Texas can sue the vineyard owner and possibly prevail, but of course with no guarantees: https://www.mbb-legal.com/blog/in-texas-can-a-cotenant-grant-an-easement-or-right-of-way-without-the-agreement-of-the-other-cotenants . In particular, the non-consenting co-tenants could sue to try to "quiet" the title to the road. "Quieting" the title means getting rid of any possibly claims of prescriptive easement by the vineyard owner.

Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 3:37 PM

It seems this would qualify as an error that would give us members some insurance protection/leverage in case another developer comes along.
Continuing with the above scenario, some 20+ years ago, a few of the co-tenants incorrectly believed they lawfully granted an easement to the vineyard owner. Call these co-tenants who wrote up and recorded the grant of the easement, "Smith" and "Jones." Smith and Jones claim they had the authority because they are on the HOA Board. Smith and Jones cannot cite a covenant to support this, but it is their claim nonetheless. All the co-tenants, including Smith and Jones, and the attorneys involved have the following exchange.

Smith and Jones:
"The vineyard owner was suing the HOA, demanding the HOA grant this easement. We wanted to stop the bleeding. The HOA board arranged for and granted the easement, in the name of the HOA."

The other co-tenants say:
"But the road is owned as a tenancy-in-common. To grant an easement requires the permission of all the co-tenants. This is well-established all over the country. The easement is not valid."

Smith and Jones:
"Fair point. Maybe the HOA's insurance company will pay to remedy this mistake by the board."

[Enter the insurance company attorney and a claims adjuster]

Insurance company:
"Sirs and ma'ams, we have reviewed the claim. The insurer's position is that Smith and Jones acted ultra vires. This means they acted outside their authority as directors. I think we all agree on this fact, right?"

All co-tenants, including Smith and Jones respond:
"Yes!"

Insurance company:
"Right, very good. Now here in section 47 of the insurance contract, it says the insurer does not cover claims involving ultra vires acts that involve deceit, malicious intent or fraud."

Smith and Jones:
"We had the advice of counsel back then, ya know, 25 years ago."

Insurance company:
"Right, and in Section 48, the contract says that the insurance company must be notified whenever it is threatened with a lawsuit. I see 20 years ago the HOA was being sued and had several demand letters from the vineyard's attorney. Did you notify your insurer back then that the HOA was being sued?"

Smith and Jones [looking at each other]:
"We do not remember the insurer being involved."

Insurance company [whose attorney is packing up her briefcase]:
"Some 20 years ago, I am sorry your attorney did not advise you to inform the insurer that the HOA was being sued. If your attorney had done this, then of course the insurer's attorney would have reviewed the law here and told the vineyard owner to pound sand, because the board lacks the authority to grant easements on land held in tenancy in common, among all the members of the HOA. But the board never notified the insurer of this lawsuit. That was fraud and deceit. This means the insurance company cannot cover this claim. If per chance you do recall telling the insurance company, some 20+ years ago about this, and the insurer was involved in the decision-making, then go talk to this insurance company. You might have grounds to sue it. Also keep in mind that there is a "tail period" in most insurance contracts. Typically it is about six years. A tail period of 25 years would be highly unusual. ... Good night."

In other words, I do not like your chances of avoiding a years long, highly expensive legal battle, with no guarantee of any success on any dispute here.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Let us follow the bouncing ball. If the HOA insurance was to cover this, then your HOA has to pay the deductible of the insurance for that to happen. Our deductible for our HOA insurance is $20,000. That means EVERY owner would have to contribute to cover that cost by either special assessment or raise in dues if can't afford. Plus the Insurance companies now a days tend to cancel coverages altogether after a claim. Leaving the HOA to find a new insurance company. If they do not do that, then expect a raise in payments. It's been established that many HOA's are now doubling their prices for coverage.

Basically making an insurance claim puts the entire HOA at risk of loss or higher dues. It also should be stated that having a "million dollar" policy does NOT equal "1 Million dollars" payout. Not even close. The HOA insurance pays for their own lawyers. Whom get paid first and foremost. The HOA is left with what is left. In our HOA case, a payout maxed out at $80K on a million dollar policy. If the court awarded the HOA pay more than that $80K, the HOA members would be on the hook for that difference. Of course the insurance deductible on top of that.

Considering this whole situation doesn't sound like it would have mass support from other members, good luck on your lawsuit your trying to find ways to file... Milking the new contractor since you fear going to lose your Vinyard. May as well try to get money out of the new contractor's pockets...(sarcasm).

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Only a majority of the membership could have granted the easement.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
ElleN, good points, thanks.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:09 PM
Only a majority of the membership could have granted the easement.
-- For real property held in undivided interests (meaning tenants in common), this is not what I am seeing. The sites I linked above say all co-tenants (here, meaning all HOA members) would have to consent.

-- The road is apparently not titled to the association or the HOA corporation. The co-tenants (which is not the same as the association) co-own the road. Hence the covenant requiring a majority vote of the owners does not apply.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 08/10/2023 5:18 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:09 PM
Only a majority of the membership could have granted the easement.
-- For real property held in undivided interests (meaning tenants in common), this is not what I am seeing. The sites I linked above say all co-tenants (here, meaning all HOA members) would have to consent.

-- The road is apparently not titled to the association or the HOA corporation. The co-tenants (which is not the same as the association) co-own the road. Hence the covenant requiring a majority vote of the owners does not apply.


I thought all owners would have to sign off but that's not what the declaration says. And the DS act says 67% member approval needed to et exclusive use of a common area so thee is an example where the law allows it.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
What kinds of director errors are covered by insurance? I thought the insurance was to cover their mistakes.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:28 PM
Posted By ElleN on 08/10/2023 5:18 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:09 PM
Only a majority of the membership could have granted the easement.
-- For real property held in undivided interests (meaning tenants in common), this is not what I am seeing. The sites I linked above say all co-tenants (here, meaning all HOA members) would have to consent.

-- The road is apparently not titled to the association or the HOA corporation. The co-tenants (which is not the same as the association) co-own the road. Hence the covenant requiring a majority vote of the owners does not apply.



I thought all owners would have to sign off but that's not what the declaration says. And the DS act says 67% member approval needed to et exclusive use of a common area so thee is an example where the law allows it.
First, I hope it's obvious that only today did I start to grasp the implications of people holding "undivided interests" in real estate.

Second, I am presently under the impression that the HOA and the HOA corporation do not hold title to the land on which this road exists. For one thing, this is because the HOA does not pay property taxes on it.

Third, I do not think the road qualifies as "common area" of the HOA. This is because the HOA does not have title to this land (at least, according to the facts you have presented). The road may be "common area" in the sense that the people having undivided interests in the road have the right to use it, but this is not the same as "common area" titled to the HOA.

Fourth, because of the above, IMO the covenant I quoted above (about a vote of the majority of owners) does not apply. Nor does the DS Act section 4600 on 67% approval of a "HOA common area" apply. Section 4600 also does not apply because the governing documents apparently do say otherwise: Somewhere in the governing documents or on record with the county is the fact that the road is held as undivided interests by all the lots that happen to make up the HOA.

I could be completely misunderstanding. But as long as you tell me this road is not owned by the HOA, and instead, it is owned by tenants-in-common (meaning owners holding undivided interests in the road), then I do not think the road is "HOA common area."

Does the Declaration say anything about the road?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
HOA does NOT cover for mistakes. It covers a board member personal assets in case the HOA is sued due to a decision made by them in line with their board duties gets the HOA sued. Example: A child drowns in the pool. The parents sue the HOA for negligence as the board bought new pool furniture that the child got stuck in falling into the pool. You can't sue the individual board member personally because they decided the pool furniture bought had a safety risk. They made the decision as part of the HOA board to buy that furniture.

Maybe not the best example on short notice. However, "mistake" isn't what liability insurance is about. Mistake is subjective.

Plus are you really going to get a majority vote of the members to agree to your plan? Have yet to hear you report that you have been approached by 67% of the members who want this. Especially since have not discussed any of the real consequences of the actions you plan on taking.

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:34 PM
What kinds of director errors are covered by insurance? I thought the insurance was to cover their mistakes.
This is what I think is important here:

Has the HOA had the same insurer all these years? Was a tail policy purchased way back when? If so, what is the tail period?

Chatter from the net:
Tail coverage is an endorsement (or an addition) to your insurance that allows you to file a claim against your policy after it expired or was canceled. It applies to claims-made insurance policies and typically involves paying your insurer an additional fee.

When a tail policy is purchased, the insurance carrier for the selling company agrees to hold open the D&O insurance policy for a specified period of time past the policy's normal expiration date. In the United States, six years is the standard.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
TerriS6, are you certain the HOA corporation pays no real estate property taxes?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 08/10/2023 5:56 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/10/2023 5:34 PM
What kinds of director errors are covered by insurance? I thought the insurance was to cover their mistakes.
This is what I think is important here:

Has the HOA had the same insurer all these years? Was a tail policy purchased way back when? If so, what is the tail period?

Chatter from the net:
Tail coverage is an endorsement (or an addition) to your insurance that allows you to file a claim against your policy after it expired or was canceled. It applies to claims-made insurance policies and typically involves paying your insurer an additional fee.

When a tail policy is purchased, the insurance carrier for the selling company agrees to hold open the D&O insurance policy for a specified period of time past the policy's normal expiration date. In the United States, six years is the standard.

Good point. I doubt our board had the foresight. I don't know the answer regarding how many insurers we've had.
Association does not pay any property taxes.
Our declaration throughout makes references to the "common areas," the roads and greenbelt. I wish we didn't have common areas because then we would't be subject to the D/S Act.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 08/11/2023 4:16 AM

Association does not pay any property taxes.
Our declaration throughout makes references to the "common areas," the roads and greenbelt. I wish we didn't have common areas because then we would't be subject to the D/S Act.
Then I am flip-flopping again (with no shame)*, based on a few things:

Condominiums are typically set up with each unit owner having an "appurtenant undivided interest in the common elements... " (as a certain condo association that I know pretty well puts it). By contrast single family home HOAs are typically set up so that the corporation owns the common areas. As far as ownership of the roads is concerned, your HOA is set up more like condominiums. Which so far I do not think is of any major consequence here. It is what it is.

This brings me to web observations about property taxes like the following:

The common areas of a building that houses condominium housing generally are not assessed taxes separately. The value of the individual housing units covers any taxes that would be due on the common areas. Some jurisdictions still may assess taxes on the common areas, which would be paid by the condominium association out of the fees it charges.

So your HOA corporation not paying any property taxes would be not entirely unusual.

Back to the covenant for your HOA that I first cited:

"The power to mortgage, encumber, or otherwise dispose of all property, real or personal, of the association will require a majority vote which excludes all votes of the Declarant or his successor in interest."

Maybe the Declaration's "definitions" section makes clear that that 'real property of the association' is the "common areas," and each unit owner has an "appurtenant undivided interest" in these "common areas." (And so, doh, it's my lack of experience with the vocabulary here that took me down another rabbit hole.)

Which means that yes, the board back in the 1990s should have had an owners' vote and made sure a majority of all owners approved of granting the easement to the vineyard owner. Yes, it was an error. At least that's where I am at as of this writing.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I am glad to learn that the member/lawyer who wrote the easement grant deed wants the association to defend the easement as an agricultural one and not one for housing development.

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