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TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
With some posters' obsession with referring to lawyers' websites and saying to hire a lawyer for EVERY occasion, I wonder if any are getting paid to post on this site?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Good lord no. Latest theory when no one agrees with yours? Common sense and who gets paid and how? Makes no sense at all. We are not lawyers thus do not give legal advice. Contact a professional is free advice.

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
You do not think the Davis-Stirling.com web site (run by a certain law firm) is worthwhile?

I am not paid to post here, but I cannot prove it. Documentation of my many critical comments of certain HOA attorneys is abundant. Once in awhile someone posts something here that shows real wisdom from a HOA attorney.

I do think the owners of the site want to continue to boost membership, to increase the value of the site and sell it down the road. Which is only rational.

The search feature of the site is once again, truly very close to being useless. But that's just one bad thing compared to the value of a crowd-sourced site like hoatalk.com in general when it comes to educating the public.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/30/2023 8:11 AM
You do not think the Davis-Stirling.com web site (run by a certain law firm) is worthwhile?

I am not paid to post here, but I cannot prove it. Documentation of my many critical comments of certain HOA attorneys is abundant. Once in awhile someone posts something here that shows real wisdom from a HOA attorney.

I do think the owners of the site want to continue to boost membership, to increase the value of the site and sell it down the road. Which is only rational.

The search feature of the site is once again, truly very close to being useless. But that's just one bad thing compared to the value of a crowd-sourced site like hoatalk.com in general when it comes to educating the public.

I do think the site is worthwhile but that it shouldn't be viewed as the final authority. I have long subscribed to their newsletter which emits a distinct hostility toward anyone and anything that would give more authority or advantages to homeowners over the board, at whose trough they feed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I agree the D-S law firm-run site is not the final authority.

Once in a while I have taken issue with what the law firm's attorneys recommended at the site.

I do think the authors of the site are pretty clear when they are expressing a legal opinion that has not been tested in the courts.

I do not read the site's newsletters.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You do know that board members are also homeowners correct? The only "power" they have is what the other members/homeowners give them. Which is VOTING them into a board position. The lack of participation or the ignorance of how a HOA works is the REAL victimizing here. The board can only do it's job of daily operations and budget adherence on the members behalf because they VOLUNTEER to do the job. No ONE is an "expert" on HOA's. It's a living changing experience everyday.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The reason that board members have authority over decisions is because this is how corporations work.

The board is required to act in the best interests of the association. Homeowners can act in their own self interest, even when this self-interest is detrimental to the association. (This is one of my biggest gripes about the community association model. Imagine going into business with some partners and while you're working to benefit the business, they're busy doing what's best for them. Not a recipe for success.)

Authority and accountability go hand in hand, you don't get the one without the other. If homeowners want to call the shots, then they need to be wiling to put their fannies in the hot seat and be sued when things go wrong. I don't hear any homeowners clamoring to be sued (and in fact insurers would run for hills if they had to cover this sort of liability).

Any homeowner who thinks they don't have enough authority needs to get elected to the board and do some of the heavy lifting. No hard work, no authority - it's that simple.

And no, I doubt anyone is paid to post here. People with ulterior motives are pretty easy to spot, they're usually trying to sell a product or service (like the guy who was here a year or so ago trying to drum up business for his website). I try to give people the best information I can, but what they do with it is their business. If they ignore it, so be it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The website is Davis-stirling.com, which is named after the Common Interest Development (CID) legislation in Calif. The site is compiled by a CA HOA law firm and its attorneys often opine on subjects. My HOA is not a client of this firm. I'm certainly not paid.

I've found it invaluable over the years and tho' retired from board service now, often refer to it. Its Index is the best for finding topics that interest you and reading the accessible explanations. Almost everything is tied somehow or another to CA statutes and they are also always cited. I always go directly to the statute to verify D-S's interpretation for myself.

My only warning in reading this site is to make sure their interpretation of x or y is NOT strictly for Calif. And of course, much is. But there are general topics that are useful all over the USA. "Contracts," for instance. "Bylaws" is another about which many posters are often confused.

Calif. has certain requirements about agendas, but this site can show you nice examples of agendas. Calif. has certain statutes about open meeting minutes. But their sample minutes are very nice.

As a learning tool, it's an excellent resource. Posters often cite other law firms in CA & other states to back up an opinion. Sometimes management companies' pubs have been cited too.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As Kerry says, one must be careful about telling others how to do things based on their interpretation/understanding of their state laws/docs etc. as they may well not be applicable in an other state/association. FL and CA have fairly tight regulations concerning associations, SC ahs very few.

One area of major difference is in SC the BOD can communicate with each other via Email, phone, most any way we want and at most any time. We can discuss anything but not vote on anything outside a BOD Meeting. We can even run a straw poll on items to be voted on at the meeting. SC stays out of the way of BOD's.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Why, are you jealous? Or want to get in on the action? In other words, don't be ridiculous (who the hell who would even admit to it????)

I often suggest contacting an attorney because (1) We aren't lawyers (most of us, anyway), (2) the law 8n your state may not be the same in mine (3) we don't have the documents to review most of the time and (4) it's not always a good idea to get answers to complicated legal issues from the internet. You don't have to take what everyone here says as gospel -accept some, none or all of what's said. Or skip that comment(s) and go on to the next.

As a practical matter, there are situations where there isn't a state, federal or local law, so you have to resort to common sense or at least do some creative thinking. The law doesn't always catch up with current events as quickly as you think, so you do the best you can. Life and people are messy and complicated - it's a pain in the ass, but we don't always get what we want.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I'm getting paid to post about $100 per post, shocked the rest of you guys are not.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Figures. Always a rip-off.

I am starting a drive to unionize.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Union HOA chapter 11?

Former HOA President
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/30/2023 6:42 AM
With some posters' obsession with referring to lawyers' websites and saying to hire a lawyer for EVERY occasion, I wonder if any are getting paid to post on this site?

I think hiring lawyers is part of the type A mindset.
an HOA does not need to pay a lawyer $500 to pull a lien on a property as an example. I found out it costs $7 to file a lien and the form is pretty easy for anyone that knows how to look up property data.
There are other things I would not hire a lawyer for, but mentioning them will get the Type A types all bent out of shape and deffinetely make this thread go off topic.

thanks for posting this made an easy $200 today.

vis ta vie
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with you Wendy. Hiring a lawyer to me is just like hiring an "electrician" or a "plumber". They are licensed professionals. We just hired a lawyer to process the legal documents we could not file without one. We could not file things like our rule changes or the foreclosure etc. However you can pay like a general legal service to file liens. Which was the $400 filing fee.

I do not knock those whom feel the need to seek legal council as I expect those not familiar with the law to do so. It is expensive but practical for the inexperienced.

You will notice I rarely if ever quote any legal citations or references in my post. I do not want to give off the impression I am a lawyer. That is not my lane. Yes I did take legal course in college. Which allows me to understand certain aspects of law practitioners. Can translate it into layman's terms. Plus know what answers I need when hiring a lawyer if needed. However overall hired lawyers as a "tool" to be used than my psychiatrist.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
For the most us, we do not have access to your governing documents. Therefore, suggestions and opinions offered are based on that individuals knowledge on HOA/COA issues, their own experiences, any research they may have done and what is provided by the original poster. Since our level of experiences, knowledge and willingness to do research varies - the opinions and suggestions vary.

Those who had to go to court to resolve issues with their Association may be more likely to suggest contacting an attorney.
Those who may work in the legal field (front line or support staff) see potential legal pitfalls more often then others and may suggest contacting an attorney.
Those who served on a board and had to defend their actions in court may suggest contacting an attorney because of their experiences.
I know a business owner who said don't contact an attorney until you actually need one as any advice given that day can be different after the next court ruling or legislative actions.

Personally, I like to resolve issues at the lowest level possible.
This is typically done directly with the board or (if you're on the board) with the member.

What the poster with an issue decides to do is, of course, up to them.
Many on here simply want them to be able to make an informed decision.
I have found that an individual can make a better decision if they have access to the same resources I had when I offer a suggestion or opinion, so I (and a few others) provide them as they may draw a different conclusion then I did.

Statutes are always a good place to start. However, if one is not versed in legalize (I'm not, but I'm getting better at it) one may recommend an article or website by an attorney that helps break down the legalize into words that are more understood.

For the record, I am not paid. This site helped me to resolve my issue at the lowest level possible and I'm simply trying to pay it forward.

Sometimes, depending on the issue, the best advice may be to contact a local attorney versed in property law, contract law or corporate law (depending on the issue).

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/30/2023 8:11 AM
You do not think the Davis-Stirling.com web site (run by a certain law firm) is worthwhile?

I am not paid to post here, but I cannot prove it. Documentation of my many critical comments of certain HOA attorneys is abundant. Once in awhile someone posts something here that shows real wisdom from a HOA attorney.

I do think the owners of the site want to continue to boost membership, to increase the value of the site and sell it down the road. Which is only rational.

The search feature of the site is once again, truly very close to being useless. But that's just one bad thing compared to the value of a crowd-sourced site like hoatalk.com in general when it comes to educating the public.

ElleN Idaho, you sound a lot like AugustinD, are you the same person?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You are just catching on to this?

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/31/2023 9:16 AM
You are just catching on to this?

I just joined a few weeks ago. I was doing some research in already discussed topics and I thought Hey! ElleN has a twin.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In SC any member of the BOD can file a lien in the name of the BOD. Not to play lawyer, but I recall our attorney telling us that our Covenants have wording to the effect there is an existing lien on the property and all the association has to do is activate such. Do not quote me on this.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/31/2023 11:01 AM
In SC any member of the BOD can file a lien in the name of the BOD. Not to play lawyer, but I recall our attorney telling us that our Covenants have wording to the effect there is an existing lien on the property and all the association has to do is activate such. Do not quote me on this.

Our Declaration says:

"The Association shall have a lien upon the estate or interest of the Owner in any Unit and the appurtenant undivided interest in the Common Elements for the paying of the portion of the Common Expenses chargeable against the Unit that remains unpaid for sixty (60) days after the portion becomes due and payable. The line is effective on the date a Certificate of Lien is filed for record in the office of the Recorded of XXXX County, XX. .... All assessments and charges, together with such interest, costs and reasonable attorneys' fees shall also be the personal obligation of the person who was the Owner of the Unit when the same fell due."

Sounds similar to what your lawyer said.

The rest of the article on assessments discusses the priority of the association lien and spells out what happens during a foreclosure action. The lien described above "may be foreclosed in the same manner as a mortgage on real property in an action brought on behalf of the Association by its President or other chief office of the Association pursuant to authority given to that individual by the Board of Directors. ... In the foreclosure action, the Association. or its agent, duly authorized by action of the Board of Directors is entitled to become a purchaser at the foreclosure sale."

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/31/2023 9:16 AM
You are just catching on to this?

And why does it say AugustinD has zero posts when he/she has been posting for years? Is this his/her website?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
He quit for a bit and came back with a new name. That is all. We regular posters recognized it.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We've a had at least 4 regular posters the last few years change their names and their states. Chngces are Idho isn't Elle's states, but none of my business. We also, even now, imo, have a poster who posts under two different names.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 974
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 07/30/2023 10:30 AM

And no, I doubt anyone is paid to post here. People with ulterior motives are pretty easy to spot, they're usually trying to sell a product or service (like the guy who was here a year or so ago trying to drum up business for his website). ...

I remember that fellow. He made a big deal about using the term "CIC" (Common Interest Community, I think?) but as I recall, no-one ever jumped in line and he eventually left. I doubt he was being paid, but it seemed fairly obvious that he was shilling for a / his website.

As Cathy mentions: "People with ulterior motives are pretty easy to spot", and it's true. Although someone like that could be among us right now. It's unsettling to consider, because if they are, then they're *scary good* at the stealth game.

FWIW, one nice thing about this forum is that it's been pretty good about keeping its users sufficiently anonymous.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Yes, most of us here try to preserve our anonymity - otherwise we may have to limit how candid we can be when we talk about our own communities and experiences.

As for being paid, if that's my goal, then my writing belongs on my own website where I can call 'em as I see 'em and can enforce my own professional standards. If somebody else pays you for your words, then you have to spout the party line whether or not you happen to agree with it - and if I'm giving advice, I want to do so honestly.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You know what I find so funny? When someone complains that you do not use your "real" identity online. Plus they do so when trying to reach out to you personally. I am like YOU are the very reason I keep it anonymous! No one wants a complete stranger trying to get into their personal life.

Yes. I use a Fake name and my email address is not personal account. There have been times a poster has tried to take things into the "real world" on a few sites I have been too. Several tried to post my personal address online. If they had my real information that would be dangerous.

So if you are one to be offended and angry about people keeping things anonymous as much as possible, then this is not the site for you. We do not like to see posters post any personal information on their end either. We can help you without the need of such identifying information.

Former HOA President

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