Proposing Multiple Amendments at Once

Started by LoganL • 11 replies • 351 views

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LoganL (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Hello, we are thinking of proposing 3 different amendments at the same time.

1) change member vote required for amendment from 75% to 60%

2) allow certain sheds

3) allow certain fences

Our concern is that if we get 80% to vote yes for proposal 1, and 65% vote yes for both proposal 2 and 3, proposal 2 and 3 can still be submitted as an amendment, right?

Perhaps submit proposal 1 to the county first and give it a week or two before submitting 2 and 3, just so the new required percentage is filed.

I couldnt find anything in the governing documents about having to do 1 amendment at a time and take votes seperately, but we'd like to be sure that the votes for 2 and 3 would be subject to the 75% requirement unless collected on a date after the percentage has been changed. Another way to think about this is: the votes dont expire, right?

After lurking on the site for a couple months, i know to get the exact verbiage to be written by a lawyer and to have the exact wording of the proposed amendments on the proxy forms. This is just layman and looking for unprofessional opinion first before consulting with a lawyer.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

You need to approve Amendment 1 before proceeding to Amendments 2 & 3. All three amendments, if offered at the same time under one referendum, would be subject to your existing thresholds for voter majority. Maybe a lawyer can word it up differently.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

When we made changes to our documents, we did 5 of them. We had to get a vote on agreeing to those changes. Some amendments may not win. I think it's best to get as many changes to your documents as possible before filing. It just those changes all need to be agreed upon separately then added together in the final draft.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Yes, separate amendments with separate votes for each, and it's more of a pragmatic issue than a legal one. If you put them together in a single amendment, you risk having an unpopular change derail the whole effort and you'll lose a popular change that would have passed if owners had been allowed to vote for it separately.

You can handle three separate amendments at the same time, though. You just need to allow for owners to vote for each item on its own. (We did that: three amendments, a single ballot with individual line items for each amendment. Our lawyer prepared all of the materials for us, so there was no question about legality.)

You also need to decide if you want to handle the vote at a special meeting or in writing via snail mail. Your CC&Rs and/or state law mail have something to say about this. If you go the special meeting route, you risk not having enough participation to pass anything (because typically amendments must be approved by a majority *of the voting interests*, not a majority of those at the meeting). Also, if you have a number of absentee owners, an in-person meeting makes it difficult for them to participate. We did everything via snail mail.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Also, yes - if your first amendment is to change the percentage needed to amend, you need to have time to conduct the vote, verify the results, and have the amendment recorded before you proceed to the next votes.

In your place, I'd want to talk to the lawyer about the reduction in percentage and what the implications are. A board that was trying to push through some unpopular changes would probably try first to lower the voting percentage needed for approval. My personal opinion is that amendments should have a high bar to clear, and that the changes should clearly benefit the large majority of owners. The closer you get to 50%, the closer you are to changes being more dependent on your demographics at the time and less on the merits of those changes. This could work in your favor now but come back to bite you in the future.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 07/24/2023 4:11 AM
You need to approve Amendment 1 before proceeding to Amendments 2 & 3. All three amendments, if offered at the same time under one referendum, would be subject to your existing thresholds for voter majority. Maybe a lawyer can word it up differently.

This is my thinking also.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoganL on 07/23/2023 8:45 PM [with emphasis added by ElleN]
Hello, we are thinking of proposing 3 different amendments at the same time.

1) change member vote required for amendment from 75% to 60%

2) allow certain sheds

3) allow certain fences

Our concern is that if we get 80% to vote yes for proposal 1, and 65% vote yes for both proposal 2 and 3, proposal 2 and 3 can still be submitted as an amendment, right?

Not a chance. The reason this is wrong is because, at the time of the vote, proper notice of the owner approved proposal 1 has not been made by, for one, recording proposal 1 (and documentation showing the vote to approve it as an amendment) with the county.

Is this a condominium?

Is this association incorporated?

Do either the bylaws, covenants or Michigan statutes require a higher percentage to amend the bylaw or covenants section on amendments?

Welcome to the forum. Please try to respond to people's posts by name. Please try to respond to all questions by all posters.

LoganL (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I see. Ill certainly ask an HOA lawyer just to be sure. No worries, you worded that very well and clearly! Hahaha

LoganL (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

@MelissaP1
Absolutely, that is my way of thinking too

LoganL (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

@CathyA3, of course, it would be silly to lump them all in one amendment. We have 3 seperate hypothetically proposed ones. Thanks for the ideas. I think ill go door to door with forms. Itll be a lot of work, but it'll certainly be worth it

LoganL (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 07/24/2023 8:43 AM

Posted By LoganL on 07/23/2023 8:45 PM [with emphasis added by ElleN]

Oh i see. This is a single family home neighborhood. Unfortunately im not 100% certain... i think we are a not-for-profit incorporation.

I dont think so. I asked the county recorder office and they cant get me a copy of the bylaws. Covenants dont say anything like that, but Ill have to find bylaws.

I know, i posted this at 4am, at least give me till 4am to reply hahaha

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The by-laws are not usually required to be filed. They are the HOA's documents. (internal). CC&R's are required to be filed with the county. They are considered PUBLIC. The Articles of Incorporation is a State level document to be filed with them. That is also PUBLIC. The by-laws are most likely with the CC&R's, non-existent, or HOA board has a copy. It can vary. I've seen By-laws combined with CC&R's. Which can lead to confusion.

A HOA is typically non-profit but NOT a charitable one. You can't make donations to your HOA and get a tax break. How to change and modify the documents are inside the documents. Need to read them to know how to change them.

Former HOA President

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