Architectural Review Committee Minutes

One of our homeowners had a monstrous, 20' tall x at least 40' long metal carport for a 5th wheel RV installed alongside their house, which is basically a corner lot. It looks hideous and is definitely not in harmony with the surrounding homes and is not even close in to the color of the house. Several of us can't understand how this got approved by our ARC, so I request the ARC minutes from the PMC to look into it.

I should point out that our PMC had posted ARC minutes on the HOA website for the year 2021 but nothing after that.

D-S Website indicates:

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Written Record. The only provision in the Davis-Stirling Act specific to architectural committees does not require that architectural committees keep minutes. Instead it states they must keep a written record of their decisions. (Civ. Code § 4765(a)(4).) A written record could be in the form of notations on plans (a copy of which should be kept by the association), letters to applicants, journal entries, and/or minutes.
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So the PMC replied that they don't keep ARC Minutes any more and even showed me a highlighted copy of a page from the D-S site. (lol) I believe we are entitled to see any notes or written record the ARC committee wrote, but I am guessing they probably won't see it that way.

I plan on asking for a redacted copy of any document the ARC wrote on, made notes, etc. but I thought I would check in with the experts here first

Ellen - you were right, instead of just providing me the documents I requested or giving me an explanation why they wouldn't or couldn't they contacted the D&O insurance who ended up sending me the legal letter. Then at my IDR meeting tonight, they handed over everything except the ARC minutes... What a waste of our money

Civil Code section 5210(b)5

Terri - I agree, there needs to be some 'written record' of what the ARC decided. Unfortunately, under our current PMC, they have apparently stopped requiring minutes from the ARC committee.

The HOA had a meeting last night and one of the other homeowners in attendance brought this particular issue up in open forum. He was shot down because the HOA President said that he was not entitled to see the ARC application because it had 'private information' on it.

Now I can understand that if it was something to do with the inside of their house, which would not apply to us because we are all single family homes, so I would think they should be able to provide us with the actual application, if the ARC committee made any kind of notes on it, with 'private info' redacted - would you agree?

Michael, I also agree with you. It appears that the ARC committee actually approved this RV carport thing. But, our County required a permit for any 'shed' over 120 square feet, and according to the other homeowner at the meeting, the County considers the RV Carport thing a shed. I sympathize with the homeowner, if in fact they did get ARC approval and then spent money getting this installed. Not sure what the right way to handle it at this point is.

I'm sorry first point should read the ARC procedures must be included in your governing documents.

As you may be aware, insurers are just looking to jack up premiums and dump clients, in Florida and California in particular. The insurance company likely paid for the documents retention letter the attorney wrote. It will be interesting to see if further collateral damage occurs to your HOA, by way of higher insurance premiums.

The current insurance situation works very much to the advantage of rogue boards IMO.

IIRC you made several repeat requests. The board forced you to keep escalating. The involvement of the insurer is the board's fault. As you campaign, make sure you get to respond using HOA resources if the board says anything about your lawsuit threat.

And I know: They are still giving you the run-around with what appears to be a significant ARC decision.

As for the waste of money: I think getting the board educated via an attorney's counsel is often a good use of money. They are volunteers. Anyone taking issue with the latter had better be running for the board IMO, exactly as you admirably are doing.

Why sue the HOA, when it was a bunch of non-elected residents who made the decision. Sue them.

Thanks for all the replies.

Our ARC Guidelines have a default clause - if an ARC app isn't approved or disapproved within 45 days of the ARC receiving all the required info, then by default, the app is approved. I am thinking that maybe that is what happened but it will take some time to find out for sure.

Ellen, I agree about the possibility of the insurance premium going up. In my mind, this is just the PMC trying to use 'fear and intimidation' tactics to shut down a homeowner.

Regarding the HOA attorney, I think they are no longer using the one that they had on yearly retainer and who I had to deal with in the past. If I get on the board I am going to push for using the Adams Stirling law firm - they are the ones behind the Davis-Stirling website and they have an office that is not too far away. (I find their website to be incredibly helpful)

John - personally, I am not interested in pushing the matter. Yes, I think it is hideous and if the homeowner followed all the rules and got approval then I sympathize with them. They are caught between a rock and hardspot and it is not really their fault

Michael - again, it may be a default approval, I am still looking into it, but I don't expect the volunteer Board Members to know everything and that also applies to volunteer committees. To me, that is why it is extremely important to hire a knowledgeable, experienced PMC. I do think there needs to be some oversight of the ARC committee by the board, even if it just to keep the Board in the loop of what got passed and what didn't. Kind of makes it hard though that our Board changed to every other month meetings for no apparent reason, I think that decision is biting them in the butt right now.

Last question on this. An HOA is required to keep Board Minutes and Executive Session Minutes 'forever'. An ARC committee is not required to keep minutes, but they are required to document their decisions in some manner. Wouldn't the HOA also be required to keep those notes, decisions, etc also 'forever'?

Yes, decision making committees have to keep minutes permanently.
5210(a)2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), minutes of member and board meetings are subject to inspection permanently. If a committee has decisionmaking authority, minutes of the meetings of that committee shall be made available commencing January 1, 2007, and shall thereafter be permanently subject to inspection.

A decision of arch committee has to be in writing 4765(a)4.
The procedures have to be in gov docs so procedures should say what has to be kept.
Procedures must be mailed to members annually.
Some of the info may be duplicated in county app if there was one.
Clearly, they are supposed to keep a written record. The extent beyond minutes and decision it seems would be up to your gov doc procedures.

The statutes do not require this. Also: If the HOA does not have these notes et cetera, the HOA does not have these records.

If you wanted to push this issue (and I can see a lot of people wanting to push this issue with the carport or RV port, including possibly myself), I would ask the HOA for exactly, and only, what the statute requires. Once you have done this (or maybe you have), report back what the HOA says.

It's important to not ask for things to which one is not entitled.

You'll waste your money trying to intimidate the ARC volunteers, which is part of the HOA operation. Read your own by-laws and learn what powers the ARC possesses. It's likely the ARC has subjective and arbitrary approval authority that does not require offering explanations beyond the paperwork required to comply with the bylaws and general HOA operations.