Florida Rules regarding cookouts

Started by BethL2 • 7 replies • 340 views

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BethL2 (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Hello,
I am trying to find some information regarding HOA Cookouts at Community Clubhouses. We are wanting to plan a Cornhole Tournament and Cookout fundraiser for our community in Lee County Florida to try and bring pickleball to our community. Most of our reserves were wiped out due to Hurricane Ian. Any money raised will be going towards creation of a pickleball facility.
Is this legal - do we need permits of any kind. There is nothing in our governing documents covering this - only that we fill out a form to reserve the space.
I know a lot of other communities within the area that have regular cookouts and charge homeowners a nominal fee to attend.
Any guidance is appreciated.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

This doesn't sound like something that would require any government rules, but you might want to start by contacting the city. if you think lots of people might show up, you might want to talk to your master insurance carrier about reducing the association's liability for various issues. For the cookout piece, just hire a caterer (they usually know what's required regarding food safety and build that into the price).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BethL2 on 07/17/2023 6:25 AM
Hello,
I am trying to find some information regarding HOA Cookouts at Community Clubhouses. We are wanting to plan a Cornhole Tournament and Cookout fundraiser for our community in Lee County Florida to try and bring pickleball to our community. Most of our reserves were wiped out due to Hurricane Ian. Any money raised will be going towards creation of a pickleball facility.
Is this legal - do we need permits of any kind. There is nothing in our governing documents covering this - only that we fill out a form to reserve the space.
I know a lot of other communities within the area that have regular cookouts and charge homeowners a nominal fee to attend.
Any guidance is appreciated.

-- Who is "we" above? A group of owners, working with the board? The board? A group of owners not working with the board?

-- Adding a pickleball court is highly likely going to require a vote of the owners' to approve and/or amend the governing documents and/or plat. I would not proceed until I had thoroughly investigated this aspect.

-- Also if the plan is to pave over any land that is currently not paved, the city's land use department will have to approve this. Do not plan on that approval coming easily. Drainage is not a trivial matter. Adding impermeable surface (such as a pickleball court) where there was previously grass has big implications. I would not proceed until I had thoroughly investigated this aspect.

-- The income to the HOA from this event has significant, but perhaps not insurmountable, tax implications. Do chat a little with the HOA's accountant about this.

-- Nationwide noise complaints, and sometimes related lawsuits, about pickleball courts have now become legion.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Have you gotten bids on how much it will cost to build a pickleball facility? We had two existing tennis courts converted to permanent pickleball courts a few years ago, and for resurfacing, nets, rearranging some fencing, the total cost was around $50,000. If you have to buid new, I would suspect you would have to raise about $100,000.

There are tax implications for an HOA taking in that amount of income, plus the HOA would have to be registered with the Florida Department of Agriculture. You can find more information at https://www.fdacs.gov/Business-Services/Solicitation-of-Contributions

Also, check your declaration or bylaws. Most of the time, any change in amenities with that kind of expense requires a vote from the membership.

If you open up the event to non-residents, you run into a host of other issues, especially if you are charging money for entry. Right now you facilities don't have to meet certain ADA standards because they are private. If you charge admission, even once, they could arguably be called "public" and that brings federal and state regulations into play.

It all sounds like a great idea, but it's complicated in the details.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Quote:

Does your community really need pickleball? There are many public parks in Lee County that have nice pickleball facilities. Our pickleball group is the biggest troublemaker in our community. They play before the rules allow in the morning and cause complaints from neighbors. They invite large groups of outsiders into our gated community to play - also against the rules. They have new, state of the art courts but are constantly complaining they want more equipment. It goes on and on with them. Upkeep is a big expense. It's great to have a facility in your community, but you need to think of the long-term implications and expense.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Beth

Price the court out first. I do not think a cookout or cookouts will generate the money needed but I could be wrong.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 07/17/2023 11:23 AM
... snip ...

Does your community really need pickleball? There are many public parks in Lee County that have nice pickleball facilities. Our pickleball group is the biggest troublemaker in our community. They play before the rules allow in the morning and cause complaints from neighbors. They invite large groups of outsiders into our gated community to play - also against the rules. They have new, state of the art courts but are constantly complaining they want more equipment. It goes on and on with them. Upkeep is a big expense. It's great to have a facility in your community, but you need to think of the long-term implications and expense.

That's my immediate reaction. The reserves were largely wiped out, and ...pickleball? Clearly it's "not my circus, not my monkeys" but I sure hope some of the members know their way around a dollar bill. Especially since many associations, even those who think they're fully funded, may not be since inflation and the cost of building materials have spiked in the last few years. Insurers are also jacking up premiums or leaving markets altogether - and there will always be more hurricanes.

I'd recommend spending money on a new reserve study if one hasn't been done in the last 4 or 5 years, just to make sure the community is dealing with financial reality here. If the reserve study says you're rolling in dough, then ... maybe pickleball...

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It should be stated that a HOA is NOT a "Charitable corporation". Fundraisers or yard sales are NOT how a HOA funds it's budget. That would be subject to Taxes. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's owners for it's owners. The option for a HOA is to raise dues or have a special assessment to raise money. Fundraisers are NOT an option.

So if you all want a pickleball court, you need to have a special meeting to decide on a special assessment amount. Example: Have 100 owners and the cost will be 100 K, then EVERY owner will have to kick in 1 K a piece whether or not they voted for it. Your document will state what majority it takes to have a special assessment or how to raise dues. Some HOA's dues can be raised up to 5% a year just by a board vote. Any higher it is majority owner vote. Typically around 75% of the owners.

Once you all realize your not a CHARITABLE non-profit, the better you will be. Otherwise you may face quite a high tax bill from the IRS needing a special assessment to pay.

Former HOA President

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